Walter Arbib

Transcribed by: Marika Lapointe

Interview date: 5/23/2019

Interviewer: Henry Green

Location: Toronto, Canada

Total time: 2:06:05

Walter Arbib: Born on May 18th, 1941 in Tunis, Tunisia. Arrived in Tripoli in 1944. Arrived in Travilia, Italy in 1955. Arrived in Tripoli in 1960. Arrived in Italy in 1967. Arrived in Israel in 1969. Arrived in Canada in 1988. 

[00:00:13] Interviewer: 

What is your name please?

[00:00:15] Walter Arbib: 

Walter Simon Arbib.

[00:00:18] Interviewer: 

And where were you born? And when were you born?

[00:00:23] Walter Arbib: 

18 May, 1941 in Tunis, Tunisia.

[00:00:28] Interviewer: 

So first let me say how much Sephardi Voices appreciates you taking the time to be interviewed. 

[00:00:35] Walter Arbib: Thank you very much. 

[00:00:36] Interviewer: So we’ll begin with just a general kind of question. Tell me something about your family’s background, your grandparents’ background, where did they come from? And what’s their story?

[00:00:51] Walter Arbib: 

My family was from Libya, originally for a few generations. And then in 1941, they had to lead [ph] and leave Libya and go to Tunisia because of German advancing. And they were in Tunisia and I was born in Tunisia.

[00:01:16] Interviewer: 

So let’s go back to your father’s parents, your grandparents, your paternal grandparents. Is there a history, Libyan also?

[00:01:27] Walter Arbib: 

Libyan? Yeah. Yes. Their history was Libyan. Even the parents’ history was Libyan. They are different versions. Some people say that we are originally from Gibraltar and some other, they say that we are originally from Malta and my grandfather was a British consul in Libya during that time.

[00:02:00] Interviewer: 

Okay. And your grandfather, what do you, did you know his name, your father’s father?

[00:02:06] Walter Arbib: 

Nissim Iyas [ph].

[00:02:08] Interviewer: 

Nissim. And his wife, what was his wife’s name?

[00:02:11] Walter Arbib: 

Jorah [ph].

[00:02:15] Interviewer: 

And your father, what was his name?

[00:02:22] Walter Arbib: 

Humberto [ph].

[00:02:24] Interviewer: 

And he was born around what year?

[00:02:27] Walter Arbib: 

My father, 1890.

[00:02:31] Interviewer: 

1890. So if your grandfather, his father was the British consul, um, this would have been at the beginning of the 20th century, before World War I?

[00:02:45] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. Yes.

[00:02:46] Interviewer: 

And what about your mother’s parents, your grandparents on your mother’s side?

[00:02:54] Walter Arbib: 

They come from Benghazi, not from from…Yes. From Benghazi. And there were four brothers, there were four. One was Pio Nahum [ph] Pio was very, very active in the Jewish community. He helped a lot Israel during the first war in 1948, independence war. Sending steel that he was purchasing in the desert in Libya and sending it to Israel.

[00:03:35] Walter Arbib: 

His brother Arturo he was living in Italy and then he moved to Eilat [ph]. Had a brother Renato, remained in Turin, in Italy and my mother [inaudible] was in Libya.

[00:03:54] Interviewer: 

And what was your mother’s name?

[00:03:56] Walter Arbib: 

Yolanda.

[00:03:57] Interviewer: 

Yolanda. And Yolanda’s parents’ name. Do you know them at all?

[00:04:00] Walter Arbib: 

I don’t remember.

[00:04:04] Interviewer: 

And they were from Benghazi?

[00:04:06] Walter Arbib: 

Yes, they were from Benghazi, yes.

[00:04:09] Interviewer: 

So, how did, how did your parents meet? Do you know how your parents came together? How they met?

[00:04:17] Walter Arbib: 

I think that they met through friends, that they tried to organize this meeting, like it was done in that time.

[00:04:28] Interviewer: 

It wasn’t families prearranging it?

[00:04:32] Walter Arbib: 

No.

[00:04:33] Interviewer: 

And when, when were your parents married? Do you know what year they were married?

[00:04:40] Walter Arbib: 

My parents, they were married in, I think, 1937.

[00:04:43] Interviewer: 

What did your father, what did he do?

[00:04:47] Walter Arbib: 

My father had the properties and, he had a one of the first petrol stations in Libya, Shell petrol station. And he was blind but he was still going to work every day.

[00:05:06] Interviewer: 

And where was this petrol station, in Benghazi?

[00:05:09] Walter Arbib: 

In Tripoli.

[00:05:10] Interviewer: 

In Tripoli. So your father’s family was from Tripoli and your mother’s family was from Benghazi.

[00:05:17] Walter Arbib: 

That’s right.

[00:05:18] Interviewer: 

And when they got married,

[00:05:20] Walter Arbib: 

The moved - they were in Tripoli.

[00:05:22] Interviewer: 

They lived in Tripoli. And you were born in what year again?

[00:05:33] Walter Arbib: 

1941.

[00:05:34] Interviewer: 

So the second world war begins and your parents leave Libya?

[00:05:44] Walter Arbib: 

Yes and they move to Tunisia.

[00:05:46] Interviewer: 

They move to Tunisia. And did your grandparents also move?

[00:05:53] Walter Arbib: 

No, they were not alive anymore.

[00:05:55] Interviewer: 

They weren’t alive. So do you have any memories with your grandparents at all? Either your mother’s parents or your father’s parents?

[00:06:02] Walter Arbib: 

No. No, no, no. No.

[00:06:05] Interviewer: 

Did any of your cousins move with you to Tunisia?

[00:06:07] Walter Arbib: 

There was my uncle as well with my aunt. They moved with us to Tunisia.

[00:06:16] Interviewer: 

And how long did you stay in Tunisia?

[00:06:20] Walter Arbib: 

A couple of years. And I was born there in during that time.

[00:06:24] Interviewer: 

So you were born in Tunisia. So you were born you said in 1941.

[00:06:30] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:06:31] Interviewer: 

And when you came back, was the war over already or…?

[00:06:36] Walter Arbib: 

When we came back? Yes. The war was over. I remember that very well because I remember there was a [inaudible] baby, but going into the house, because we went back to our house, and our house was used by the Germans as one of their headquarters. And I remember to see all these wiring, everywhere, everything in the house. But when we went back that remained impressed.

[00:07:08] Interviewer: 

Do you remember going up to your bedroom at all?

[00:07:10] Walter Arbib: 

I didn’t have a bedroom because I was born in Tunisia.

[00:07:14] Interviewer: 

When you went back into your house?

[00:07:16] Walter Arbib: 

No, because I never saw my house before.

[00:07:21] Interviewer: 

Okay. So let’s talk about, you’re growing up in that house since 19… whatever it is, ’45, ’40.

[00:07:29] Walter Arbib: 

’41.

[00:07:30] Interviewer: 

I know. But you were born in Tunisia, moved back into Tripoli in 1945 maybe, the end of the war.

[00:07:38] Walter Arbib: 

Earlier than that.

[00:07:40] Interviewer: 

’44. Do you remember seeing any German soldiers or any…?

[00:07:46] Walter Arbib: 

No, but I remember the fascist atmosphere. That I remember very well, the fascist atmosphere. No, the only German that I heard from, from my brother, that they came to our house in Tunis, the Germans, and, my uncle start to scream at them. Nobody understands why, but they left after the scream of my uncle saying, “We are British citizens, you cannot touch us.” And that’s how we saved our skin. You know, they saved our skin.

[00:08:30] Interviewer: 

When you went back to Libya, you, in Tunisia were a small child and two, three years old. What language were you speaking?

[00:08:45] Walter Arbib: 

French.

[00:08:46] Interviewer: 

You’re speaking French. And so when you went to Tripoli the language wasn’t French.

[00:08:53] Walter Arbib: 

No, it was Italian.

[00:08:57] Interviewer: 

Italian. So you began to learn Italian.

[00:09:01] Walter Arbib: 

Naturally.

[00:09:03] Interviewer: 

What did your parents speak to you? What language?

[00:09:06] Walter Arbib: 

Italian. They were speaking with me and my brother in Italian. When they wanted us to not understand, they would speak in Jewish Libyan.

[00:09:16] Interviewer: 

But Jewish Libyan was like an Arabic, a dialect.

[00:09:20] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah.

[00:09:23] Interviewer: 

And did you learn that dialect?

[00:09:25] Walter Arbib: 

No. Never. 

[00:09:26] Interviewer: 

So you never learned Arabic?

[00:09:28] Walter Arbib: 

No.

[00:09:30] Interviewer: 

It was Italian you would speak?

[00:09:31] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:09:32] Interviewer: 

And the schools you went to spoke…

[00:09:35] Walter Arbib: 

Italian. I knew a few words in Arabic, of course, because you know, you walk around but I really did not learn the language.

[00:09:46] Interviewer: 

Did you have help in the house?

[00:09:48] Walter Arbib: 

Of course, yeah.

[00:09:50] Interviewer: 

And were they Muslims or Jewish?

[00:09:52] Walter Arbib: 

They were Muslims?

[00:09:54] Interviewer: 

Muslims. And they spoke Arabic.

[00:09:56] Walter Arbib: 

That’s right, with my mother. And as well Italian.

[00:09:59] Interviewer: 

And they spoke Italian too,

[00:10:01] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. But we had a nanny, she was an Italian nanny from the North of Italy. And she was really like a second mother for us. And of course we spoke only Italian with her.

[00:10:14] Interviewer: 

You only spoke Italian with her. So tell me, as you grew up your home, was it a kosher home?

[00:10:22] Walter Arbib: 

Yes, the home was kosher, yes.

[00:10:26] Interviewer: 

So did you celebrate Shabbat in the house?

[00:10:29] Walter Arbib: 

We were going to the synagogue. We didn’t …my mother, yes. She would make Shabbat dinner and all that. Yes, for sure. We had the synagogue and it was about a hundred meters from our house and this is where we’re going. And then my family had a synagogue, which is one of the oldest synagogue in the older part of Tripoli. And we were going there only high holidays. Then, when my father became paralyzed, what we’re doing, we were making synagogue in our house, only for the high holidays, Yom Kippur and then we had a synagogue operating in our house.

[00:11:20] Interviewer: 

And would relatives come or friends come so you’d have a minyan?

[00:11:24] Walter Arbib: 

They were coming, people from the community. It was not only for us, but it was open to everybody. It was always, it was always full.

[00:11:34] Interviewer: 

Always full, and someone would bring a Sefer torah or…?

[00:11:39] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah, yeah. We had everything. We would bring it from other synagogues.

[00:11:43] Interviewer: 

From other synagogues. Do you remember the name of synagogue that was a hundred meters, a hundred yards from your house?

[00:11:49] Walter Arbib: 

Bethel.

[00:11:50] Interviewer: 

Bethel. And the other one you would go to was called…?

[00:11:52] Walter Arbib: 

Silah [ph]. Silah that means synagogue in, slang, Bibi.

[00:11:58] Interviewer: 

And did you go to a Hebrew school or do you…?

[00:12:05] Walter Arbib: 

To study for Bar mitzvah.

[00:12:10] Interviewer: 

But not like every day.

[00:12:12] Walter Arbib: 

No.

[00:12:13] Interviewer: 

So going back to Shabbat, would friends or relatives come for Shabbat dinner?

[00:12:18] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:12:18] Interviewer: 

What would that be like? What would - like Friday night? What would you go to synagogue?

[00:12:23] Walter Arbib: 

I was not going every Saturday, but we were going to a synagogue near the house. Then I had my aunt, my uncle, and another uncle, and we had Shabbat dinners.

[00:12:38] Interviewer: 

And at the Shabbat dinner would your mother make special foods, or would the help?

[00:12:44] Walter Arbib: 

She would make food for 50 people.

[00:12:46] Interviewer: 

For 50 people.

[00:12:48] Walter Arbib: 

Even if were four or six.

[00:12:51] Interviewer: 

And what kind of dishes, were they Libyan dishes?

[00:12:55] Walter Arbib: 

Libyan.

[00:12:57] Interviewer: 

Give me the names, if you remember the names, what would it be?

[00:12:59] Walter Arbib: 

Mafroom is number one. [inaudible], that is a fish with tomato sauce. And then she was doing Italian food as well [inaudible].

[00:13:08] Interviewer: 

And your mother though was born in Libya, right?

[00:13:17] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:13:17] Interviewer: 

So, and her parents were born in Libya too?

[00:13:20] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:13:21] Interviewer: 

So where did the Italian come from?

[00:13:23] Walter Arbib: 

Libya was Italian for many, many years. And the education, the schooling, everything was Italian.

[00:13:33] Interviewer: 

So the culture was…

[00:13:36] Walter Arbib: 

The culture, a hundred percent Italian.

[00:13:38] Interviewer: 

So did your mother go to the souk to shop?

[00:13:41] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah, I was going with her as well.

[00:13:44] Interviewer: 

So tell me some stories about the souk, what you remember about going to the souk with your mother?

[00:13:49] Walter Arbib: 

We were going shopping. And of course she was negotiating on everything, but yeah we were going twice a week probably.

[00:14:01] Interviewer: 

And what would she speak? What language?

[00:14:04] Walter Arbib: 

Arabic. She spoke fluently Arabic.

[00:14:08] Interviewer: 

Arabic. So she would negotiate, barter for this and that. And what about the meat? Was there a kosher butcher?

[00:14:16] Walter Arbib: 

There were more than one kosher butcher, yes. One of them was killed in 1967 in the riots, but there were different kosher butchers.

[00:14:27] Interviewer: 

So she was able to get- so it was no problem. She would be able to…

[00:14:31] Walter Arbib: 

Hundred percent.

[00:14:33] Interviewer: 

What about when it came to Pesach? What are your memories of Pesach and growing up?

[00:14:40] Walter Arbib: 

We were doing the Seder and we had everything in any case, we were doing the Seder. Pessach was always with a lot, a lot of people. We were inviting people and in a way it’s the same way that we had after and even here. Like I said, she was preparing everything, starting two weeks earlier to prepare everything. She was cleaning the house a month earlier then to make sure that she could cook.

[00:15:20] Interviewer: 

So the house would be clean. And, and the Seder, was it in Hebrew and Italian? Was that how it - like here we do it in English and Hebrew.

[00:15:33] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah. It was in Hebrew and Italian. But like here, a lot of people, they pray in Hebrew, but they don’t even know what they are praying. This was the same thing.

[00:15:48] Interviewer: 

And you have brothers and sisters? Yes?

[00:15:52] Walter Arbib: 

One brother.

[00:15:53] Interviewer: 

And how old is your brother?

[00:15:55] Walter Arbib: 

My brother was born in 1939.

[00:15:57] Interviewer: 

So he was older?

[00:15:58] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah. One and a half years older.

[00:16:00] Interviewer: 

So when it came to the Ma Nishtana, the questions, did you say them, or did your brother say them?

[00:16:07] Walter Arbib: 

I think my uncle and my brother.

[00:16:11] Interviewer: 

But you…

[00:16:12] Walter Arbib: 

No, no, I don’t know. I was playing in a way. Yeah. I was interested just to find the matzah.

[00:16:24] Interviewer: 

The afikomen. Did you remember getting the afikomen?

[00:16:30] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah, a few times.

[00:16:31] Interviewer: 

And did you get your father give you a prize?

[00:16:33] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah.

[00:16:35] Interviewer: 

Do you remember the prize?

[00:16:37] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:16:42] Interviewer: 

You know, because I think of the Jewish life was, the holidays were important. Shabbat was important.

[00:16:51] Walter Arbib: 

Very important.

[00:16:52] Interviewer: 

And do you, you think that was when your Jewish identity, your Jewish connection began to grow?

[00:17:04] Walter Arbib: 

You were born, like that. You didn’t need to grow. It was a part - you were born, your family was religious, not very religious, but was religious. And then we had this fantastic older the synagogue in the old part of Tripoli. Then of course it was part of life. You, you were born like that and you just go with the time [ph].

[00:17:36] Interviewer: 

So how did you learn Hebrew then?

[00:17:37] Walter Arbib: 

When I went to Israel.

[00:17:39] Interviewer: 

Could you read Hebrew before that?

[00:17:41] Walter Arbib: 

I could read it. Again, I don’t know how much I understood it.

[00:17:47] Interviewer: 

But who taught you how to read the Hebrew? You know, siddur, how would you learn to read the Hebrew?

[00:17:52] Walter Arbib: 

Because you were reading it without understanding, but when you start to learn the language, of course, that helped you.

[00:17:59] Interviewer: 

But what was your father the one that taught you?

[00:18:02] Walter Arbib: 

No, my father was blind and he was not able, unfortunately, to…

[00:18:09] Interviewer: 

So an uncle? A Rabbi?

[00:18:11] Walter Arbib: 

Rabbi. Yes.

[00:18:13] Interviewer: 

And this was at the synagogue or…

[00:18:15] Walter Arbib: 

No, he was coming to our place. 

[00:18:17] Interviewer: He would come to the house and teach you and your brother?

[00:18:20] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. Because of one and a half year and two different… first he teach my brother. Then one and a half year later, he teach me.

[00:18:29] Interviewer: 

What kind of relationship did you have with your brother? He was older than…

[00:18:36] Walter Arbib: 

He was older. He was smarter and he was better in school and I was the naughty one. And that’s what our, really our relation. We had an excellent relation, but of course he was considered the older brother and the one that wanted to study. And I was considered younger brother, the one that did not want to study.

[00:19:01] Interviewer: 

Hmm. So you say you were naughty. What does naughty mean? Did you, you know, not go to school or do you… what was naughty?

[00:19:11] Walter Arbib: 

It became to a point that my mother decided - and my father - decided to send me to a school in Italy. At least I had to live there because they could not control me that much.

[00:19:34] Interviewer: 

And how old were you when they sent you to Italy?

[00:19:40] Walter Arbib: 

I was about 13, after Bar Mitzvah. 14, 14 probably.

[00:19:47] Interviewer: 

And you, you were in Italy for your high school or how long?

[00:19:50] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah. Yeah. I was in Italy for five years in this school, but I was going back to Libya. My mother was very busy to answering the letter from the school, saying that they want to throw me out. She was very busy answering all these letters and screaming at me at that time.

[00:20:08] Interviewer: 

And was it a boarding school? You lived at the school?

[00:20:12] Walter Arbib: 

It was a boarding school? Yes. Yes.

[00:20:14] Interviewer: 

Did you know anyone that went there?

[00:20:16] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah, we were six Jewish boys there. And there are some people still that I, by time to time I hear from them. Yes.

[00:20:29] Interviewer: 

From your school years?

[00:20:31] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah.

[00:20:33] Interviewer: 

And were they these six Jewish boys also from Tripoli?

[00:20:35] Walter Arbib: 

One was from Tripoli. And one was an Iranian Jew living in Milan. One was from the Davidoff family from Switzerland. There were different, different… yeah.

[00:20:54] Interviewer: 

And was the school in Rome?

[00:20:56] Walter Arbib: 

No, it was in Travilia [ph]. That is in the North of Italy. Not far from Milan.

[00:21:01] Interviewer: 

And would your parents come and visit you there too?

[00:21:07] Walter Arbib: 

No. No, I was going back. Yeah, because of the problem of my father, et cetera, then I was, I was going back.

[00:21:15] Interviewer: 

When you were in Tripoli growing up, did you have - and you were saying you went to an Italian school. And so the students in the school were Italians, Christians, Muslims? Who was in school?

[00:21:37] Walter Arbib: 

There were Italian, Greeks, Maltese, Muslim… From all over.

[00:21:46] Interviewer: 

And did you play together at school?

[00:21:49] Walter Arbib: 

Yes, we played together.

[00:21:51] Interviewer: 

And were you a member of any kind of club? Like a sports club?

[00:21:55] Walter Arbib: 

There was a Maccabee club in the time, then it was closed later. And then there was [inaudible] de Italia. That was the Italian club. We were going there. The Maltese they had their own club and the Greek had their own club.

[00:22:11] Interviewer: 

And when you went to - the Maccabee was the Jewish club.

[00:22:17] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:22:18] Interviewer: 

Did you have Muslim friends?

[00:22:21] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:22:23] Interviewer: 

Did they come and visit your house?

[00:22:25] Walter Arbib: 

When we were doing parties, yes. We were doing parties at home. Most of them, yeah, they would come.

[00:22:33] Interviewer: 

So if you had a party at home, the Muslim would come to your house.

[00:22:38] Walter Arbib: 

Greek. Muslim.

[00:22:40] Interviewer: 

Whatever. And if they had a party, you would go to their home?

[00:22:42] Walter Arbib: 

I didn’t… maybe a few times, I mean, I don’t know.

[00:22:47] Interviewer: 

The people who were from the Greek community or from other communities, they spoke Italian, right?

[00:23:01] Walter Arbib: 

Everybody.

[00:23:02] Interviewer: 

Did they also speak Greek? 

[00:23:04] Walter Arbib: 

Between them.

[00:23:05] Interviewer: 

Between themselves, but you didn’t have, your friends were more Jewish friends or were they…?

[00:23:10] Walter Arbib: 

No, I would say no, Italian and Jewish, but no.

[00:23:16] Interviewer: 

Would you play on the streets with them? Would you… What would you do?

[00:23:22] Walter Arbib: 

Play in the streets not really because our parents would not allow it then? No, not really. We were going to a beach. We had a beach that was 15 minutes by bicycle, then we were going to a beach nearly every day.

[00:23:41] Interviewer: 

And would the girls go to the beach too?

[00:23:44] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:23:44] Interviewer: 

So it would be boys and girls together.

[00:23:46] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. We had parties and everything. It was not easy to try to date a girl. But yeah, we were together.

[00:23:57] Interviewer: 

And the culture was very sort of Italian.

[00:24:01] Walter Arbib: 

The culture was Italian.

[00:24:04] Interviewer: 

It wasn’t an Arabic culture.

[00:24:07] Walter Arbib: 

It was Italian.

[00:24:09] Interviewer: 

So in a way you felt more Italian then? You thought of yourself as Jewish and Italian?

[00:24:17] Walter Arbib: 

Italian Jew.

[00:24:19] Interviewer: 

An Italian Jew. So tell me about your bar mitzvah then. What was your bar mitzvah?

[00:24:29] Walter Arbib: 

Was in Tripoli it was at the synagogue. And then the party was at our house and there were quite a lot of people and it was really fun.

[00:24:44] Interviewer: 

And did the rabbi teach you to put on the tefillin or…?

[00:24:51] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. Yes. I didn’t do a whole, uh, just made the brachot.

[00:24:57] Interviewer: 

Brachot. You didn’t do the…

[00:24:59] Walter Arbib: 

No.

[00:25:00] Interviewer: 

And after you didn’t put the tefillin on every day or anything?

[00:25:06] Walter Arbib: 

In the beginning, after the bar mitzvah, you had to do it, yeah.

[00:25:11] Interviewer: 

But there was no like pressure or anything?

[00:25:14] Walter Arbib: 

No.

[00:25:15] Interviewer: 

And did your brother also do this?

[00:25:17] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. Yes.

[00:25:19] Interviewer: 

What about community life? Were your parents a part of… you said your father had a petrol station. So would he go to the petrol station?

[00:25:36] Walter Arbib: 

Every day.

[00:25:36] Interviewer: 

Every day.

[00:25:38] Walter Arbib: 

A lot of times I was taking him because he was blind, I had to. I was taking him. Or he had somebody working for him, by the name Mustafa and Mustafa was coming and taking him.

[00:25:56] Interviewer: 

And then would you sometimes stay at the station?

[00:26:01] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:26:03] Interviewer: 

Were your parents a member of any clubs or anything? Was there a Jewish club that they…?

[00:26:11] Walter Arbib: 

The Maccabee [ph].

[00:26:12] Interviewer: 

So that was the main club and so the children would come and do things. So you would go there, there was a swimming pool there?

[00:26:22] Walter Arbib: 

No.

[00:26:22] Interviewer: 

No, but there was…

[00:26:24] Walter Arbib: 

Ping pong, a sort of theater and yeah, it was that.

[00:26:31] Interviewer: 

There would be like, cultural events.

[00:26:33] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. And at the time Maccabee had as well, a basketball team that then they had to disappear. And most of them, they formed another team that was not a Jewish name. And some of them they went to play with one of the Arab teams together.

[00:26:54] Interviewer: 

So, if you were born in ’41, 1948 comes, you’re seven years old. You have lots of memory already. So Israel was created in 1948. Do you remember anything about Israel being created?

[00:27:11] Walter Arbib: 

The excitement of a Jewish community. Yes. It was a huge excitement, part of the Jewish community.

[00:27:19] Interviewer: 

Was there a negative reaction by the Muslim community?

[00:27:21] Walter Arbib: 

In 1948? Yes, it was, but disappeared pretty fast, but it was, yes.

[00:27:30] Interviewer: 

Do you remember being afraid of going out on the street or anything or…?

[00:27:34] Walter Arbib: 

We avoid it.

[00:27:36] Interviewer: 

Your parents would say stay in or…?

[00:27:39] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:27:41] Interviewer: 

So there’s sort of like a, maybe another sense of….

[00:27:43] Walter Arbib: 

It was a very strange situation because Israel had a representative there that was trying to work on immigration on [inaudible] to Israel. And then until ’55 or ’56, you could even write the letters, send the letters from Tripoli to Israel. And then everything started to deteriorate with the Arab League [inaudible] start to force Libya to boycott, et cetera.

[00:28:17] Interviewer: 

You were saying earlier how your mother’s brothers were involved. So were some of them involved in some ways with the Zionists that were doing things?

[00:28:30] Walter Arbib: 

My uncle was pretty involved and , he moved to Israel and he opened a company called Titanic [ph]. That was a company that even open the road [ph] between - up to Eilat at the time. And he was very, very Zionist and he dedicated a lot of his time to Israel.

[00:29:03] Interviewer: 

Your parents didn’t go visit him in Israel, or anything.

[00:29:07] Walter Arbib: 

No, we could not. First of all, could not go because we would never be able to return in Libya. And the second again [ph] with my father’s condition, no, never.

[00:29:18] Interviewer: 

The sense of Zionism that was around you to some degree, did your mother consider herself a Zionist?

[00:29:35] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:29:37] Interviewer: 

And how would she express that? How would she show that?

[00:29:39] Walter Arbib: 

They were a group of friends and it was clear, but of course they were trying to not overdo it because they did not want to have any problems. One of my uncles was in the, in the board that represented the Jewish community in Libya and they wrote books about him, because he was really very, very active on the Jewish community in Libya, even [inaudible] to Israel.

[00:30:19] Interviewer: 

And this would be around ’48.

[00:30:22] Walter Arbib: 

Starting yes.

[00:30:25] Interviewer: 

So it was more like in the house, you would have this sense of Zionism, but when you leave the house it was more…

[00:30:35] Walter Arbib: 

Don’t force yourself on it. We were every day, walking the main street, all friends we were going to parties. But I never, my myself personally, I know that other people wouldn’t agree, I never felt anything that would make me worried. I had Italian friends that we were always together and never, it never was a sort of, “You’re Italian. I’m a Jew.” Did not happen to me.

[00:31:25] Interviewer: 

When you were in Italy, in the school in Italy, how was your Jewishness expressed? Was there any kind of Jewish club or anything in that school in Italy?

[00:31:47] Walter Arbib: 

I’d been one year in - before going to a school in [inaudible] and there was in a Jewish school in Milan, and I was a boy scout with him [?] in Milan. And there was my first, really, reaction to what is the Jewish community. And because we were there, yes, we had a lot of Jewish events and going there with boy scouts all around Italy. And in Trivilia [ph], first of all, we have to think that there was not many, many, many years after a war. [00:32:37] Then you felt that people were very worried to offend you on anything. And we were, we’re Jewish, we’re six Jewish. We were a lot together, but then it’s also strange enough because we became friends. Not because we were Jewish, because otherwise I had a lot of Italian friends.

[00:33:12] Interviewer: 

So in 1956, there was a war.

[00:33:17] Walter Arbib: 

That’s right.

[00:33:19] Interviewer: 

And you were born in ’41. So you were about 15 years old.

[00:33:22] Walter Arbib: 

I was in Trivilia.

[00:33:23] Interviewer: 

So do you remember that at all? The war?

[00:33:25] Walter Arbib: 

I remember that very well. First of all, I was, you could not go out of school. I had the key, I had the key to get out. And, um, I was going to buy the newspapers because at the time television was a minimal and I follow up, that war, I follow up the fact that they wanted, the British wanted to evacuate my mother, my father to Malta, but then that did not happen. [00:34:06] Because the situation cooled down. I remember the ’56 war. I remember pretty well. The shock that I had of what was happening,

[00:34:20] Interviewer: 

Your parents had British passports?

[00:34:24] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:34:25] Interviewer: 

And did you have a British passport too?

[00:34:28] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:34:28] Interviewer: 

And your brother had a British passport?

[00:34:30] Walter Arbib: 

That’s right.

[00:34:31] Interviewer: 

How was your grandfather, [overlap]?

[00:34:35] Walter Arbib: 

He wants an honorary consul. I really don’t know the story because, you see, a lot of things that is happening at the time was with [inaudible], etc. And I heard it in a corridor in a way. Talking and speaking at home.

[00:34:54] Interviewer: 

Right.

[00:34:58] Walter Arbib: 

One important thing to say, that until now, if you ask me how your father became blind, I don’t have a real answer. There are different versions. And even my uncle, every time I ask, he was avoiding them. And one version is that he was trying to separate people fighting and he got knocked on his head and he become blind, but there were a couple of different two, three versions.

[00:35:38] Interviewer: 

When your mother married him, was he blind?

[00:35:41] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:35:43] Interviewer: 

So he was already blind. And did your father, you say you lived in a nice house. So where did the income, the money come from?

[00:35:56] Walter Arbib: 

From a variant of properties. We had quite a number of properties, some shares in some businesses then with that we had a good life

[00:36:14] Interviewer: 

And these properties were things that your grandfather had owned or your…

[00:36:19] Walter Arbib: 

It was family.

[00:36:21] Interviewer: 

It was all family. So you dressed in Italian dress, when you would go to the beach, it’s all western.

[00:36:30] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. Yes.

[00:36:34] Interviewer: 

Were your parents involved in any non-Jewish organizations? Non-Jewish life clubs? Did your mother play a mah-jong? Or did she play…

[00:36:44] Walter Arbib: 

Canasta. Canasta.

[00:36:45] Interviewer:  

She played canasta. And do you remember this?

[00:36:47] Walter Arbib: 

Of course.

[00:36:48] Interviewer: 

And was she good?

[00:36:50] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah, she was good in canasta.

[00:36:52] Interviewer: 

And who would come and play with her?

[00:36:54] Walter Arbib: 

Her friends.

[00:36:54] Interviewer: 

And they were Italian friends?

[00:36:57] Walter Arbib: 

Jewish and Italian.

[00:36:59] Interviewer: 

And would they come like every Thursday night and play, or was it once a week or…?

[00:37:09] Walter Arbib: 

I would say even twice a week.

[00:37:49] Interviewer: 

Okay. So once or twice a week, she would, would she go to other people’s homes to play?

[00:37:55] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:37:56] Interviewer: 

And so you saw the same people, they would come each time to play?

[00:37:59] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:38:00] Interviewer: 

And did they do it for money? 

[00:38:02] Walter Arbib: 

No.

[00:38:04] Interviewer: 

Just for fun. And would they serve tea or serve food?

[00:38:08] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. Canasta, I had an uncle that is my father’s brother. He immigrated to USA and he was living there. He was even trying to get us immigration to USA, but my father failed because of health reasons. But then one time he came with his wife to Tripoli and she bought Canasta. People they didn’t even know what was Canasta.

[00:38:40] Interviewer: 

So she taught your…ah. And did you learn how to play? Did she teach you?

[00:38:47] Walter Arbib: 

Canasta?, No. I was playing Rummy, yes. And monopoly but not Canasta, no.

[00:38:56] Interviewer: 

Did you also play poker?

[00:38:57] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. We were playing poker for very little money, but, yes, we were playing poker.

[00:39:03] Interviewer: 

With your friends.

[00:39:04] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:39:05] Interviewer: 

What about shesh besh, backgammon?

[00:39:07] Walter Arbib: 

No, [inaudible] in Israel.

[00:39:10] Interviewer: 

No, you didn’t learn it in Libya. Huh. Did you ever go to the cafes in Libya?

[00:39:21] Walter Arbib: 

We were every day, from 2:00 to 3:30, we were going to cafe and one of the major cafes was owned by my family that was under our house, but was rented out. But under our house we had one of the main coffee shops with the billiards and people… It was very easy.

[00:39:46] Interviewer: 

So you would just sorta go downstairs? Were you good in billiards?

[00:39:51] Walter Arbib: 

Not really. No. I was playing, but not, not very good.

[00:39:56] Interviewer: 

Better in poker.

[00:39:58] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah, poker was okay. Yeah.

[00:40:02] Interviewer: 

Okay. So you go back from Italy after school and you go back to, I mean, from Italy you go back to Libya after your school.

[00:40:12] Walter Arbib: 

Yes.

[00:40:14] Interviewer: 

You grew up, you graduate high school.

[00:40:15] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. In Italy.

[00:40:16] Interviewer: 

In Italy, and that would be, you went back, what? 1965, ’66?

[00:40:20] Walter Arbib: 

’61, ’62.

[00:40:28] Interviewer: 

’61, ’62. Yeah. Sorry. You’re born in ’41.

[00:40:32] Walter Arbib: 

No ’60. ’59.

[00:40:36] Interviewer: 

Okay. So what do you do when you go back to Tripoli? What do you do then in the 1960s? What kind of work do you do?

[00:40:43] Walter Arbib: 

They push me to go to work and I work in a couple of companies. One was a car importer company and another one was selling duty free to embassies in Libya and in Tripoli. Then I started to travel to Italy quite a lot. And I’ve been going back and forward.

[00:41:14] Interviewer: 

And when you go to Italy, what would you do in Italy?

[00:41:19] Walter Arbib: 

Nothing. Sleep during the day, going out during the night.

[00:41:26] Interviewer: 

So you were sort of like a...not Playboy, but you were, you just enjoyed yourself.

[00:41:35] Walter Arbib: 

Enjoyed myself.

[00:41:36] Interviewer: 

And you had family and friends.

[00:41:39] Walter Arbib: 

I had friends, I had friends, yes.

[00:41:42] Interviewer: 

And it was Rome you would be in? What city?

[00:41:44] Walter Arbib: 

In Rome.

[00:41:45] Interviewer: 

What section of Rome were you in?

[00:41:48] Walter Arbib: 

In Parioli.

[00:41:51] Interviewer: 

Okay, so you go back and forth and…did you think you would go in some direction or where did you think… What do you think in those days?

[00:42:06] Walter Arbib: 

I was going, as I said, back and forth. And then in ’66, I went back and I wanted to try to do something. I started to import Italian coffee and Italian coffee machine. And that was until 1967. Where I was caught in Tripoli during the Six-Day War.

[00:42:34] Interviewer: 

So tell me about the Six-Day War. What happened? What was your experience?

[00:42:39] Walter Arbib: 

My experience is one that I was in the kitchen and my mother came to me and say, there will be a war. What talking? Dayan has joined the government and Dayan will attack. I say, they might cool down, who knows? And she said, there will be a war. And that was my first knowledge of…[00:43:13] But we really underestimated as a community. We were still going out and we were going out to the nightclubs. We were going to… We had Arab friends. We still talk to them, etc. It was not really… The only problem was the radio because… my personal opinion is that the radio is a brainwasher in the Arab world. [00:43:50]  Because this has to do as well with the fact that when I started to work with Egypt in five minutes, at that time Sadat say, we want peace given to Jerusalem. The atmosphere was completely changed in Egypt. The day before they were ready to kill you, two days later, they were ready to [inaudible]. Then that was… [00:44:19] In Libya until one or two days before, nobody believed it would be so, so big, demonstrations, et cetera. And yes, I recall the day of the war, I was not home. And I was in the office where we were doing the coffee shop. And then I say, they came to me, they say, but the partner was an Arab. [00:44:53] He said, go home. Don’t stay here and rush home. And then I went home and at that moment was announcement that a war started. I went to the coffee shop, the bar underneath, and I say to the guy, “Close down. The war started, close down.” [00:45:19] First reaction: He didn’t believe it. I say, close down. You can come to our house because you will not have even time to go to your house. And then the explosion of the war and this crowd that it was with blood in their eyes. And I could see that from the window because I was in the main street of Tripoli. I could see that from the window. And I realized that they had put signs on the shop of a Jew to know which shop to go. On the main street, 90% of the shops were owned by Jews or Italians and they started to put everything on fire.

[00:46:09] Walter Arbib: 

Then they tried to break into our house. And I remember the screams, and we were lucky because my father wanted to have always a bar of steel, a big one. And when the guy from the shop, for the bar, came we put the bar on back of the door. And they really tried hard to break in. [00:46:44] When they succeed to break in, and our door was a wooden door, pretty heavy, then they went to a terrace and from a terrace, they were making a sign like this [cut throat] with knives, et cetera. And we put a big table on the entrance door, very heavy one. Then there were the doors, you know, like this, moving all the time. Then a certain moment the crowd disappears completely… [00:47:29] In the building, in the front of our building. It was a strange coincidence. It was a friend of mine from Rome that was Italian. And he came to Tripoli to work on a project. And he was making me sign all the time because he was just opposite. And at a certain moment, I realized, after I find out, because I found out this only when I went back to Italy, strange enough. [00:48:04] I found out that he called the Italian embassy and said, “Not Jews, they’re Italian in the building”. And the crowd is there with, with knives, et cetera. And the Italians they called the army and they, sent them away. From there we moved [inaudible]. We moved to a neighbor’s house and, um…[phone rings]

[00:48:44] Walter Arbib: 

We moved to a neighbour’s house and we slept there. You could see they made a curfew that we do every night. But during the day you could see a huge mess, huge, huge mess. And in the morning, I thought it was over because we saw mess  [ph] one night. Then I went to Alitalia to buy tickets to get out. [00:49:11] And the guy at Alitalia tells us, “Hey, are you crazy? What are you doing here?” He was an Arab, “Go back home. Nothing… We’ll start in another few minutes, go back home.” And I went back home, my aunt’s home, because our home already, they put fire underneath it was not even healthy [ph] to be there. [00:49:38] We went to my aunt’s home and, um… We were listening to Italian news on television. And John Reese [ph] was an Italian Jew and anchor on television.

[00:49:55] Walter Arbib: 

We were looking, watching television. And then after four days, I say to my mother, we have to get out. We cannot stay here all our life. We had people bringing us food, even Arabs by the way, Libyans, they were bringing us food. But we say we have to get, we have to get out. I had a Greek, a Greek guy that he was working in Woodroffe’s [ph] air base, an American air base that I met in Rome. Because at the time, when I was going to Rome, at the time I was doing some car sales business, et cetera, and he was representing a company in Italy, in Libya, in [inaudible] air base.

[00:50:54] Walter Arbib: 

He came, he was one, really that was coming and trying to help us even to move some money, but very little amount that we could find when we leave the country. And by the way, this guy, he had a shop that he was selling cars to the American Air Force. And he had a Jewish girl working for him. And he helped her.

[00:51:29] Walter Arbib: 

And after they realized that…people, and they took him and they put him in jail and they put him his leg up, the head down. And they wanted him to confess that he worked for Israel, et cetera, these things. And this poor guy, they took away his, off his eyes. And he was a vegetable. He could not do anything when he was released from jail because of intervention of other country, not the Americans, uh, Greek, because the Greeks were in good relations. And he went to the states and he died after a while.

[00:52:24] Walter Arbib: 

But in ’67, my first time, after five days that I tried to leave Libya, we went, I called the British consul and I said, listen, we’re stuck. And we are closing the home and we need to go get out here. We have to go away. And, then he came and talked to us and he said, okay, I’ll arrange that you leave tomorrow. He wanted to go to Malta. I said, no, I go to Italy. And the day after he sent the car to pick us up and took us to the airport and we already started to check in and we were at passport control.

[00:53:12] Walter Arbib: 

In that moment, the policeman at the passport control, he was just stamping the passport. I will never forget. He was just, he hears that the British, they helped Israel. And then he started to scream and my mother spoke Arabic. These are not only Jews, they are British Jews. Then in five minutes there were three, four hundred people that they came with, a trolley for the luggage, to take the luggage to her to a plane.

[00:53:50] Walter Arbib: 

And they put myself and my mother, they pull us to a desk and they start to spit on my mother. Strange enough, they didn’t spit to me. They spit on my mother because, probably because she was answering in Arabic and they spit on my mother. And that situation took five minutes probably. Then the Italian manager that was there, he ran - he knew me - and he started to talk to a policeman. And then he say, okay, follow me. And he took us out and he put us in his office.

[00:54:30] Walter Arbib: 

But in the meantime, we didn’t have a passport because passports, went with the policeman. I say, we need the passports or we will never get out of this country. Even if we get out alive today, which was very doubtful, we will never get out without the passport. Then he went and he came back with a passport.

[00:54:49] Walter Arbib: 

We were in his office and he say, “I arrange a car. You go out from the window. And there is a car there that will take you home.” We went out to a window, with my mother, and we went into the car. The crowd was notified that we were in the car. They came and they overturned the car. And in that moment, the army came. The manager said, this is my car, what are you doing? They took us out of the car. And it was a car of Libyan Jew going, that he left his daughter. He was going back and he gave us a lift. And we went back to my aunt’s house. We were there at about a week. And then the second time we tried and we didn’t have any problem.

[00:55:48] Interviewer: 

And it was the British that helped you again?

[00:55:51] Walter Arbib: 

No, no, the second time no.

[00:55:55] Interviewer: 

You just decided - who helped you leave the second time?

[00:55:59] Walter Arbib: 

We just, we just went to airport and we left.

[00:56:02] Interviewer: 

And where was your brother during this?

[00:56:04] Walter Arbib: 

He was a in Italy, in Milan. He was in the university.

[00:56:09] Interviewer: 

And were you - did you talk to your brother every day on the phone? Was he trying to help you or…?

[00:56:14] Walter Arbib: 

To make a phone call from Tripoli it will take two hours for a phone line were not… No, we didn’t talk to him.

[00:56:24] Interviewer: 

When you left, were you able to take anything with you? Could you take, did your mother take some jewels or …?

[00:56:32] Walter Arbib: 

Nothing because we tried to go to the bank, but then they say your account is frozen. Then no, we didn’t take anything. After we got a permit to take furniture out, but they checked everything. In ’68 I went back to Libya because I was trying - they told me that I had a buyer for the property. My mother was already there and…

[00:57:03] Interviewer: 

Already back in Libya.

[00:57:06] Walter Arbib: 

She went back at that time. Because as well we wanted to sell our property. But after I left the Libya I went to Israel and I had a permit, a visa to Israel on a separate piece of paper, not on my passport. When I went back to Libya somebody came in to see me in the evening and he say, leave tomorrow. I said, why? Because they have, they are aware that you have, you’ve been to Israel.

[00:57:41] Walter Arbib: 

And the morning after he [ph] left.

[00:57:46] Interviewer: 

You went back to Italy. And your mother. Did she go with you? 

[00:57:50] Walter Arbib: 

My mother went later on. Yes. 

[00:57:53] Interviewer: So she stayed.

[00:57:55] Walter Arbib: 

A few days. 

[00:57:55] Interviewer: And then what? What happened to the property? 

[00:57:58] Walter Arbib: Nothing. She went there to pack all the furniture and everything. No property, nothing. 

[00:58:06] Interviewer: 

So the furniture ended up…

[00:58:11] Walter Arbib: No, he furniture arrived. 

[00:58:13] Interviewer: Arrived in Italy. Bu the house? And do you remember the address of the house? 

[00:58:22] Walter Arbib: [inaudible] 

[00:58:24] Interviewer: And you have pictures of that in your book? The pictures?

[00:58:27] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah, because I still had a lot of Libyan friends, but time to time, they send me photos.

[00:58:37] Interviewer: 

Do you want a drink of water? 

[00:58:41] Walter Arbib: No, I’m okay. 

[00:58:42] Interviewer: So you leave, you have no money. You couldn’t take your money. You don’t have jewels, you have nothing. So you, how do you live? How do you survive?

[00:58:58] Walter Arbib: 

I tell you. I arrived there in Rome airport - during my last few years, before ’67, I said, I was going to Rome. I rented an apartment in a residence in Rome, in Baglioni [ph]. Well, the owner of the resident became a friend. When he heard where we were living, because he was trying to find out what happened to us, he was waiting for me at the airport. And when I came, I say, what are you coming for? I have no money. [00:59:37] And he said, no, that’s the time to help you. Then you come, you can stay at the residence how long you want, you can eat, you can sleep, do whatever you want.

[00:59:48] Walter Arbib: 

Then I went there, stayed there. My mother, in the meantime with my aunt, they found this one apartment. And I stayed in that residence for quite a while. And in the meantime, we told the resident we were old friends from before. One of them offered me a job. And the job was very strange. It was an idea of mine [ph] but it was very strange to the [inaudible] develop. [01:00:24] The Libyan Jews, they left all their cars in Libya, all of them. Thousands of cars. Okay. And the police took the cars and put them in a compound. Then the Greek, the guy that I was saying that took off his eyes. He came up to Rome to see me. He says, I have a notary in Tripoli that can make you a change of ownership of a car from the Jew to the buyer in Libya. [01:00:56] The car they did not put a restriction like in other properties. Then we had this notary that was coming to Rome and the Jews were coming there signing their car and they were getting a value for their car. And with that value, plus some more cash, they would buy a new car from me. And we have done hundreds of these cars. And it worked fine because there was no restriction. The notary was getting a power of attorney and go back, sell the car. [01:01:36] The Greek was selling the car and was telling me I have credit. So much for the car. It’s how I started back in Italy in ’67.

[01:01:51] Interviewer: 

So, um, let me ask you just a few questions about some things during this period. The first is that many of the Jews left in 1948. 

[01:02:03] Walter Arbib: That’s right. 

[01:02:05] Interviewer: So there was a community, which was 38,000 in Libya in 1948, had become a much, much smaller, five, six thousand.

[01:02:16] Walter Arbib: Yes. 

[01:02:16] Interviewer: 

 So why didn’t your parents leave at some time? Why, why did they stay? 

[01:02:23] Walter Arbib: Because most of the people that left, they were from the old city of Tripoli. The ones that remain, there were people that had something to lose. They had properties. The law did not allow you to sell properties anymore at a certain point. And then they didn’t feel that they want to leave everything behind and go away. They didn’t feel that, also, they could not sell the property. [01:02:58] Then Libya was in a big boom, economic boom. And they decided to be part of a boom.

[01:03:07] Interviewer: 

And the second question has to do with the American air base. So the people who did stay and who were more, you know, integrated like your family, the youth would, would go to the air base for parties and things. Did you do this too?

[01:03:27] Walter Arbib: 

Yes. You could not…they will not invite you every day, but yes, we were going to American base. Yes.

[01:03:36] Interviewer: 

You would go to the American base. So did you have friends that were also Americans during this time?

[01:03:42] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah. So we’re going to American base sometime to their party, they were coming to our parties. Yes.

[01:03:48] Interviewer: 

They were going got your parties. So were these people, did they help you at all, or could you reach out to them during this 1967 crisis?

[01:04:00] Walter Arbib: 

No. Because they were already pretty scared themselves I think. No. No. The help that we got was really from the Arab population that they - not all of it - a very small number that were friends before and remained friends. 

[01:04:33] Interviewer: 

And when you were  going through those horrible five, six, seven days, you were taking, your brother was in Italy. So you were the one taking care of your mother, taking care of your aunt and…

[01:04:54] Walter Arbib: 

My uncle as well was there.

Interviewer (01:06:21):

But you were the one who was making…

[01:05:01] Walter Arbib: Trying. 

[01:05:01] Interviewer: … trying to make it happen. Were you scared? Did you have a lot of fear, when you think back on this?

[01:05:09] Walter Arbib: 

I had two fears. One, when they came to my house. That was an incredible story itself because from my house I could see the street. And looking at the street I see on the crowd, a guy that we were together evening before in disco. And we were friends, and I see him in the crowd and that shocked me as well. And the very fact that I didn’t see how I would get out. [01:05:54]  You are in, but you don’t know how to get out. You cannot leave the house. And the miracle of a miracle that happened, the people left. It was a miracle, it was nothing else but a miracle. I’m not religious, but in that moment I remember the Shema Yisrael.  Because it was really - with the friends that was running the show downstairs. [01:06:28] And after that I cooled down, but when I went to the airport and we had the crowd and they were spitting on my mother, I didn’t see any way out as well. I will never would have insured, if it was insurance, for a penny, my life, because you had all this crowd that was incredible. [01:06:50] And you are alone. What do you do? How you get out of it? 

[01:06:57] Walter Arbib: 

The manager of Alitalia, Renato Tarantino was his name, I’ve been looking for him for the last 30 years. Now I understand that he passed away because I want to recognize him. I never even had the chance to come and tell him, thank you. I didn’t have any chance to do that. [01:07:19] And I think that he deserved to be honoured, to try to find the family. Because then I find out that he divorced, married again.  I tried to follow it up a bit, then boom. I cannot get any more information. And at the time, yes, at the time I didn’t see a possibility, worse than the first time. The first time I say, who knows? We are in the main street, but the day at the airport, there were fanatics, you know? [01:07:54]  It was incredible. The funny part is that after a while that I was in Italy, I got a call from a guy that was in the crowd.

[01:08:07] Walter Arbib: 

And he said, I finally got your phone number. I said, okay, I didn’t say anything. And he said, I am in Rome, I want to take you for lunch. I said to him, yeah, with pleasure. You come here, where I am. There was a pizzeria there and we have lunch. Then we sat in the pizzeria. And he said, I been trying to help you. I’ve been trying. [01:08:40]  Then I finished lunch, finish a pizza. I asked for a bill, he wanted to pay the bill. I say, no, no, I pay. He said, why do you want to pay? I say, I pay, I want to show you that you succeed to destroy me. I’m paying the bill. And then I say loud, “I never forgot what you did”. He said, what I did? You were first in line to try to get into my house. [01:09:08] Then he started to cry and say, they forced me. Then the Italians, sometime are… they start to scream at him, “Get out, get out of this restaurant, piece  of shit to get out”. And this was the last time I saw him.

[01:09:29] Interviewer: 

So you’re in Italy. And you’re selling the cars. And how long did you stay in Italy? 

[01:09:37] Walter Arbib: 

Until ’69. 

[01:09:38] Interviewer: and then where do you go? 

[01:09:40] Walter Arbib: To Israel. 

[01:09:40] Interviewer: Why do you go to Israel? 

[01:09:42] Walter Arbib: Because my mother was in Israel and my brother was in Israel.

[01:09:45] Interviewer: 

So your mother had left and went to Israel. Your brother goes to Israel. You’re 28 years old now. You go to Israel. You don’t speak Hebrew. 

[01:09:54] Walter Arbib: No.

[01:09:54] Interviewer: You speak Italian. 

[01:09:57] Walter Arbib: Yes. 

[01:09:57] Interviewer: Okay. You’re now in a new country again. 

[01:10:00] Walter Arbib: Yes. 

[01:10:01] Interviewer: And what happens? Tell me what happens when you come to Israel. 

[01:10:04] Walter Arbib: 

First of all, I was not in a new country because a lot of my friends already were there in Israel. Then when we were in Israel, we rented an apartment near Disingnof [ph], we were about eight of us, nine of us in a two-room apartment. And looking for job. Two of them had a job, but all of us, were looking for a job. And the only thing that I brought with me to Israel, were my clothes became at the time I was going out. I had a very nice clothes, I brought them with me.  And then I started to try to look for a job. [01:10:55] And I realized that not speaking Hebrew, the only job was in the airport or somewhere. Then I read an ad at the Hertz rent-a-car needed people to move cars.

[01:11:10] Walter Arbib: 

I went down and I applied for a job. And the manager was there, an Indian Jew and he said, okay, you have a driving license? Yes. So he said, okay. I say, I don’t speak Hebrew. He said you don’t need, you’re moving cars. Then I work there about nine months moving cars. Then one day he calls me. I already knew a little bit Hebrew. He calls me and say, I have to remove you. I say, why? I’m doing my job. He says yeah, but you know what? The people at that time in Israel, the people they see you, you come like you’re going to a wedding every day, with jackets and ties. You’re a drive moving cars and people, they hate it. And I say, why, I am losing a job because I come well dressed? He said, no, no, I will move you to an office. Then you can do whatever you want to, but not moving cars. 

[01:12:12] Walter Arbib: And that’s how I started to work for Hertz. I worked for Hertz for a number of years. And then I heard that, [inaudible] they were the largest operator in Israel. They were looking for a sales manager and I got a job. And then I worked for them, quite a number of years. And I did that as well. I started to get work from the American embassy. They were working all the requirement, they were calling me. [01:12:49] And after that, I start to approach the Sixt fleet to come because there was a war in Lebanon and they could not use anymore Lebanon to come and have a [inaudible] in Israel.

[01:13:06] Interviewer: 

This is the 1980’s? ’89?

[01:13:08] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah. Yeah. And then I got that work because of sales. When a ship like that would come  you will have 50, 60 buses going around eating, et cetera. Then even a hundred busses. Then I read this thing, and started to look around and understood it was the United Nations was in the border with Lebanon, with Syria [ph]. And then I start to approach them as well, and started to get work from them.

[01:13:53] Interviewer: 

And what kind of work would that be?

Arrange to buy tickets at the travel agency? 

[01:14:01] Interviewer: [inaudible]

[01:14:02] Walter Arbib: Yes.

[01:14:04] Interviewer: 

You were sort of the go-to place for these people. 

[01:14:08] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah.  At the time [ph] yes. 

[01:14:11] Interviewer: 

And did you speak English then? 

[01:14:14] Walter Arbib: Yeah, I spoke English from before. 

[01:14:17] Interviewer: So you always knew English. And these people didn’t speak Italian.

[01:14:22] Walter Arbib:  No. 

[01:14:23] Interviewer: So it was English. And you had the Hebrew yeah? 

[01:14:26] Walter Arbib: Yeah. 

[01:14:28] Interviewer: And were you married yet?

[01:14:32] Walter Arbib: 

No. Eddie came in ’74 I think, you know, she came to Israel. 

[01:14:41] Interviewer: In when? ’74? 

[01:14:43] Walter Arbib: I think ’74. 

[01:14:44] Interviewer: Mid-seventies. 

[01:14:46] Walter Arbib: She came to Israel and she came up to buy a tour from my travel agency. And that’s how we met.

[01:14:52] Interviewer: 

And when did you marry? What year did you get married? 

[01:14:57] Walter Arbib: (mimes to be quiet). 

[01:14:58] Interviewer: Sometime after. And you have any children? How many children do you have? 

[01:15:03] Walter Arbib: Two. 

[01:15:04] Interviewer: And their names? 

[01:15:07] Walter Arbib: Steven [ph] and Dana. 

[01:15:10] Interviewer: And Steven was born what year? 

[01:15:13] Walter Arbib: Steven was born in ’77. 

[01:15:14] Interviewer: And Dana? 

[01:15:16] Walter Arbib: In ’80. 

[01:15:17] Interviewer: 

And they were born in Israel. 

[01:15:19] Walter Arbib: They were born in Israel. 

[01:15:19] Interviewer: So you meet Edie, you get married, you have two kids and you’re living in Israel and you’re running a tourism company. 

[01:15:27] Walter Arbib: Yes. 

[01:15:27] Interviewer: What happens after that? Let’s go into the eighties. What’s what happens to you then?

[01:15:37] Walter Arbib: We were still in Israel and after - before Sadat came to Jerusalem. 

[01:15:50] Interviewer: He comes in ’77. 

[01:15:52] Walter Arbib: ’77. In ’77 when I heard that was coming I immediately say to myself, you know what? These men will make peace because he will never risk his life. Because he knew that if he will not succeed, he would be killed. He’d be killed in any case. But then, then I say, you know, these men will - if he will come, he will go up to make peace. And I remember I called Pan-American, I knew people in Pan-American. I say, do you have any contact in Egypt? [01:16:40] They say, yeah, we have our agent in Egypt. Can you give me his phone number? And they send me a phone number at the time was telex, you know. They sent me the phone number and I kept it.  When Sadat said that he was coming I say, let’s try to see if we can break through this thing and start to something with Egypt.

[01:17:13] Walter Arbib: 

Sadat came. And…the first time he came he had a spokesman, his name was Moses Al-Dentin [ph]. He was the spokesman of Sadat. Via some people, they indicated me Moses [inaudible]. Then I say okay, you know what? I will try to get into Egypt. I try, I find out that Israel had a direct line, a government line to Egypt. [inaudible] direct line. Then it was not used by anybody. But I got the number by one of the people that was involved and I try the number and boom, they answer me in Cairo. [01:18:17] Then I say, I’m calling from Tel Aviv. Now I have a book of a guy in Cairo, he wrote a book on this story. And in that moment there was a silence on the other side. And then somebody came and say, what do you want from us? I say, I think that it is time that we started to think about doing business. [01:18:44]  And the guy said, I’m not talking to you. Then somebody else came on the phone. And he say, you know that we are liable to have problems, there is no peace, what are you doing? Then he said to me, but you know what? I would like to meet you. I say, okay, let’s meet. Where we meet? In Paris. Okay. I meet you in Paris. I flew to Paris and the guy say, you know what? I am of your same opinion. Let’s keep in touch. We will be the first one. That’s for sure. Let’s keep in touch. [01:19:30] Okay. I went back to Tel Aviv and I started in the car to… and in that time, already, it was clear that the peace will be signed. It was very clear. Then…the Egyptian, the [inaudible] agency called us [inaudible]. He said, I am going to Paris. If you want, we could meet in Paris. Edie, okay, we have it in the book, okay. Okay. Bye. 

[01:20:23] Walter Arbib: The owner of the agency come to Paris and I am in the lobby of the Intercontinental Hotel in Paris. And waiting for this guy that I did not know. Then a guy comes to me and says, excuse me, are you from Libya? I look at him. I say, yes. He say, you don’t remember me. I say…do we know each other? He says, yeah. We were in jail together in Libya. [01:20:58] I look at him, I say, we were together? He says, yeah. Do you remember? The white horse. Because in Libya, in the jail they had a white horse in the middle. He said, we were going around and talking. And I say to you, well, one day, you know what? We would have peace with the Jew. [01:21:21] I look at him, I say shit, I know who you are. I remember now very well. And the reason that I was in jail, because this was enough to be a Jew and to get an accusation, you were going to jail. And he goes to his room in the hotel and I go to my room. After two minutes, I get a call from him. He’d say, Walter, did you see a letter? I say no. He says go and look. I look, I see this envelope under the door. I open the envelope and it’s from an investigation company called Torino. [01:22:05] I remember because it was an Italian name. It say, you are in danger because you are discussing, you’re talking to an Egyptian, to me, to an Egyptian, to him, to an Israeli. [inaudible] sort of letter, you need a body guard. We are at your service. These people were sitting there when we’re talking and we hear… boom, he wrote the letter, but he got very nervous more than me. He said, I’m living in this hotel and he went to another hotel. And then he said he’s coming to Cairo. We went to Cairo and Moses Al-Dendin [ph] played our host [ph]. He was the spokesman of Sadat. Wonderful guy. He passed away, but wonderful guy. 

[01:23:01] Walter Arbib: And we were there for a few days. And…during the visit, we were taken around to show Cairo. And I went to [inaudible], the market. And the thing was “Keep low profile”. But immediately a guy comes to mete says, Shalom. Shalom. He says, come with me. And I say, where? He says, come to my shop, I want to show you something. I say, he wants to sell me…[01:23:44] Then I went to the shop. Then he say okay, come with me, and he goes in a grotto. And I say, what I do? I follow him? But you know what? He’s was an older man. I follow him And he opens - he had a bag. He opens the bag and there is a Sefer torah inside of the bag. And old Sefer torah. And he said to me, you know, I kept it all my life this thing. I got it but I kept it all my life. You want it? [01:24:24] I say yeah. He says, take it. I say no, I don’t take it, I have to give you something, then I pay him some money and he give it to me. The atmosphere at the time was incredible. In the evening, let’s say towards the most famous Egyptian singer, [inaudible] and I was there. I went there, into the nightclub, and these guys stop playing music. And he say, please stand up. We have a friend of ours that came and we’ve been waiting for him for tens of years. Our friend comes from Israel. The people really stand up.

[01:25:15] Walter Arbib: It was incredible. You know what? I really nearly cried. I cried. Because I see somebody made an announcement like this. Three or two years earlier, probably they have killed you in a sense. That’s why I [inaudible] thing that I say before that there is a brainwashing situation that takes place, not with him because he was very well educated. [01:25:42] Then we started, we decided, toward affairs [ph] in Montreux in Switzerland. And we decided that we would do it, we will take [inaudible] together. And the background was the name of an Israeli city and the name of an Arab city. Israeli city, Arab city. And the pavilion was called Israeli-Egyptian pavilion. And it was all over the press because it was the first time something like this happened. It was all of the press of the world. [01:26:21] And then we say, you know what? If there is an announcement somewhere we are moving within 24 hours. And [inaudible] with Sadat. And they say that open borders [ph]. It was…just a statement. But in the moment that they say open boards [ph] I was using all of the telex and I had a code of Egypt as well for the same reason. I sent it to El-Hami [ph], my friend. I say El-Hami, open boards, tomorrow we are coming. And he say, how? I say, let me think. And I was in the balcony of my office, it is in higher corner, in front of water. And I see this big  yacht coming in. [01:27:32] Then immediately I rush out of my office, it was a hundred meters from the yacht that landed. I rush. And the yacht parks and the name of the yacht was Gabriella. I go on the yacht and ask, who is the captain? And this guy comes down and says, I am the  captain. I say, can I talk to you? He say, yeah. He comes down and he is an Italian. [01:28:00] And I say, listen, you want to be famous? He looks at me and say, what is your question? I say, how much you want for your yacht for four days? Where are we going? I say I will not tell you where we’re going, but how much you want? The guy look at me and say, it’s dangerous? I say, I don’t believe so.[01:28:30] He say, what do you mean you don’t believe? I say, I think that it will be okay. Then he say, okay. [inaudible]  I say, go and buy food for four days. And then I call the American Navy [inaudible] and I say, listen, you want an adventure? He say, with you? Yes. He say okay. Tomorrow we are going to Egypt. [01:29:03] And he say, you must be joking. I say, no, I’m not joking. I’m serious. He say, how? I say, you know what? I don’t tell you anything now, but be ready with your wife tomorrow. We go to Egypt. That is a fact. [01:29:22] He say, you know what? I have an American guest, I think it was a general [ph] in the army. What I do with him? Take him. Take him. My office was in the front of the Sheraton [ph]. And the voice [ph] it start to go around that a journalist from ABC [ph] television came to me. [01:29:52] Leonard Stone [ph]. He says, I heard that something is happening tomorrow. I say, yeah. Do you have a crew? He say yes. Be ready tomorrow. Tomorrow we go somewhere interesting. I didn’t tell him. He say, can I know what happened? I say, I will not tell you in this moment. I need to… because they can stop us. [01:30:20] Then we have to keep very cool. Then he say, I know where we’re going. I say good, you know, I didn’t tell you. But keep cool. And then from the Sheraton comes, the manager of the Sheraton was invited but he could not come. Then comes a gentleman and he say, I heard that tomorrow you are going to Egypt. And he’s from Miami at the Sheraton in Miami. He’s in Iraqi Jew. [01:30:53] I say, who told you? He say, the manager of the hotel. I say okay. He say, I want to go. I say…where you want to go?  He say, I want to take my wife. She’s an Israeli and to, to Egypt for her birthday. I say, listen, this is crazy. He said, how much you want it, you know? I say, it’s not a question of money. It’s a question that I have - it’s crazy. He say, I want to go. I say okay. [01:31:32] In the morning we had all these people that they all came to my office. We walk 10 minutes. We went to a Marina and I say to the people, if the Israeli authority will ask us where we’re going, we are going to Cyprus because it was still illegal going there. We go there. Everybody board the ship. We had a huge banner thing, “Peace is the key to togetherness”, very big banner. We had a song [ph], we bought you peace translated in Arabic. And we left. 

[01:32:24] Walter Arbib: We [inaudible] left. In the meantime I called my Egyptian agent. I say, listen  you have to bring buses to the border because we have to cross [inaudible], they need to be ready. He says, we will be there. We are coming. And when the yacht start to get close to, it was in ABC this story. The yacht start to get close two [inaudible] boast come and try to close the way to the yacht. [01:33:08] And they say, you are not allowed. Why we’re not allowed? There is no way for us to let you in. I said, okay, then what you are saying to us, I remain in Tel Aviv because it was a mess with press, government office. I say what you’re telling us is that President Sadat lied because he say open borders. Is that true? [01:33:40] No, you cannot go. Okay. Maybe you ask your president. It will be very bad, very bad. We have ABC television, it will be very bad for you. Walter Cronkite was involved. I said it would be very, very bad. In the meantime, the Egyptian arrived, arrived to get closer to the boat.

[01:34:16] Walter Arbib: No, sorry, the Suez Canal it was the second one. Sorry. I got confused. They get close to the boat and a guy that worked for my agent [Hami] start to get closer and then he say to the officer, this was filmed, he say to the officer, I waited for this moment for all my life. I am an officer. I have a higher degree of…I’m a civilian now, but I was in the special forces in the Egyptian army. Then call President Sadat. [01:35:05] He says, the Egyptian they ask our manager to go and board on their boat and they pick him up and he goes on board and they say….we are trying to get President Sadat because he’s the only one that can take a decision like this. In the meantime, we will escort you to port Fuad, in Port Fuad, there is a curfew done for this reason. [01:35:35] Then if you don’t get a permit, you are leaving. This is the agreement. Okay. We both went to Port Fuad, the Egyptian soldiers came on board to make sure the put Israeli music, they took, the people, they took - they all start to dance with Egyptians, all together on the boat. In that moment arrived a notification, “You are welcome in Egypt. Now cars are coming to pick you up.” And they pick up all the people and brought them to Cairo, they gave them a tour, etc. [01:36:19] And then they went and take them back to Israel. From that moment, we continuously sending yacht every two days because they could not, it was over, finished. And then after that came the idea to take people by bus to Egypt. And there is the Suez Canal. So we took the people by bus and I get a call from [inaudible] Wiseman [ph]. And he say, listen, you are not authorized to do it. I say, I’m a civilian, what do you mean I’m not authorized to do it? Can you give me a valid explanation? [01:37:06] He say, you create a mess with the boat. They had to go to President Sadat to get the authorization and this is not what we are looking for. I say, what are you looking for? To stay 20 years with a piece of paper, and no action? Is this what we’re looking for? We say, okay, we will not let your bus go to the boat. I say, no problem. We are going. If you come  with an order in [inaudible] it was a petrol station, with an order to stop, we stop. But I want a written order, not a phone call.

[01:37:50] Walter Arbib: I put an ad the same day in the paper that whoever wants to go to Egypt it’s free of charge, but we don’t guarantee the success of the operation. And we had two buses arrive in Ashkelon two, two Jeep of the army. And that this guy come [inaudible] okay, called [inaudible] okay, we have an order to escort you to the border. I say, what are you telling me? That you are out. [01:38:26] But we will leave you at the Israeli side of the border. And there is a ]inaudible] that you cannot touch and then there is the Egyptian side of the border. Okay. We take the bus, we arrive to the Israeli side. There is some old oil barrel with string there. That was the border. 

[01:38:49] Walter Arbib: And we had a hundred people in the buses. Then I still go down the bus and I go to the other side. It’s very short the no-man’s land. I go to the other side. And when I arrived to the other side, I see all the televisions there, Japanese, everybody was there. Nobody was missing. Then I went there, I turned down. I kissed the floor. [01:39:22] And General Shakat [ph], who was the governor looks at me and he says, why do you kiss the floor? I say, I always do that when I arrive to a friendly country. This is what I’m doing. Then in that moment, he started to walk away and I was just [inaudible] I went down there and I, I follow him and they had a caravan. [01:39:53] He goes to the caravan and I got to the caravan and he doesn’t understand what I’m doing. This guy he’s… And I say, somebody of the television told me his name is General Shakat [ph]. General Shakat, can I get a tea, please?  Then he say to the guy, make him a tea.

[01:40:18] Walter Arbib: In the meantime, my agent is already there with his people. And then I say, [inaudible], why you don’t let us in? We went - he say, I know already your story with the boat. I said, okay, now we wanted, we came on a friendly mission. We didn’t come…he say, listen, we have no agreement. We have no agreement. There is nothing. I don’t have - we are not a border, official border, civilian border. [01:40:55]  What do you need? He said, I would not do it. Then my Egyptian guy come and say, listen, we have buses here. You have a hundred people. You have all the television. They’re waiting outside. What you want to tell them? Don’t tell us, tell them. You want to tell them that Egypt doesn’t want to welcome? Go and tell them. We are waiting. [01:41:21] Then he’s still on the phone, right and left with the 10 telephones trying to get a line because telephone did not work. Then he said, I’ll come back in 10 minutes… or give me half an hour. Okay. We are there. My agent is with me, General Shakat disappears. Then I said to my agent, let’s go to look for him. My agent say, you’re crazy. You’re going - you want to go there now in, in town? [01:41:57]  I said, yeah, let’s go. Then he say, you know what? This time both of us, we will have a problem. We went. And then we realized that he had two, two houses. Then we went to one house and there were children playing. And then without saying… it’s your husband available? She say, no, but I’m expecting him. Then we sit and I start to play with her children. I sit down and start to play with the children. [01:42:27] He arrives, he opened the door, he nearly fainted. And he look, he say, how you came to my house? I say, you told me that you were coming. Probably it will be easier. I came to see you.

[01:42:45] Walter Arbib: He said, okay, tomorrow we open the border. I have an order. Tomorrow we open the border. You can come - go back home. You come back tomorrow. I say no, we stay here. I’ll go back to the Israeli side. We stay here. We drink something and around four o’clock, four thirty I start to see trucks coming and I say,  what are they doing these guys? Then I started to go back and I see. They are preparing a welcome with drinks and sandwiches and everything. And at eight o’clock, eight o’clock we…we cut the ribbon on our side and go there and I had scissors with me, General Shakat, can we cut the ribbon? [01:43:50] We are opening the border. This is a historic moment for you, for me , for everybody. And then he smiled and he say,  welcome, welcome. And then [inaudible], how you went to the - now what you cannot come with your buses because they are - I say, no, no, we have Egyptian buses. And we have other buses after Suez Canal because the boat they were very slow. Now it’s perfect but at that time…[01:44:23] Then what we do, owe take the people to the boat, to the Suez Canal, we use the [inaudible] and we take then to other side. From the president Sadat and his wife, they decided to, to do an evening for peace. Frank Sinatra offered his services free of charge. Completely free of charge. It was a concert under the pyramids. It is the best thing that I have ever been was this concert. And they get an invitation for Mrs. Sadat, as you believed in peace I would like you to come with ten of your guests. And we were there in, in this, in this concert. 

[01:45:29] Walter Arbib: 

Then after that, I wanted, it was a holiday…[inaudible] I was in Egypt. And I say to my agent, you know what? Can you drive me to Alexandria? I’d never been in the synagogue. Then he drove me to Alexandria and I went into the synagogue. And the people they already knew of these crazy Israelis going around, they knew about it because as soon as I came in the guy came to me from the synagogue and say, why you brought with you Egyptian Mukhabarat? [01:46:12]  I say, he’s not, Mukhabarat, he’s a friend of mine he’s not Mukhabarat, believe me. Then we sat and then out of respect, they call me to the Sefer torah. And after finished, I say to them, what I can do for you? They say, take us to visit Israel. We are old. Take us visit. I say, okay. The day after, we remained the night, the day after I say to him, let’s go and see, we make an appointment in the synagogue, everybody has to bring me their passport. [01:46:53] When they came, two passports, 40 people. I say, what, where are all the others? We don’t have a nationality because in ’56, when Nasser say if you want to stay and become Egyptian, you have to go to the army. They all decide to don’t. [01:47:17] Then I say, it’s a really problem. Then my agent say, you know what? Let’s cool down. Let’s think. We will find a solution. Then [inaudible] we called the secretary of Mrs. Sadat. It was a British [inaudible] Susan. And said, Susan, we need to Mrs. Sadat. And she say, for what? We need her help.  And uh, okay. [01:47:48] She say to my agent, tell Mr. Arbib to go back to Tel Aviv and there were no flights I had to go via…. And, uh, when Mrs. Sadat is available. Then I say, no, tell her, let us stay. I will be here. Whatever it takes, it takes. I will be here. 

[01:48:11] Walter Arbib: Sure enough. My agent called me and say, okay, we have a meeting with Mrs. Sadat. And we told her, you know, now it’s a time of peace. These Jew, they are all old. They want to visit Jerusalem. And you have, your husband is the only key because Boutros Ghali refused to me immediately. Your husband is the only key. Let’s find a way that they can come to Jerusalem and come, and they will come back.

[01:48:50]  I say, and you are the only one that can really talk to President Sadat. Okay, I will try. After two days Susan, say, bring us all of the photo of all of them with some documents of each one of them. Then we went back to Alexandria. These people they took out suitcases for under the bed, trying to find anything and we found enough documentation to be able to know who they were. [01:49:33] And we, we bought it. We bought it with us to Cairo and say, okay, go to Boutros Ghali and give it to Boutros Ghali. 

[01:49:46] Walter Arbib: We go to Boutros Ghali and he say, why you bother me, he says, for that? I said, because we came to you and you refused. And we understood it was embarrassing for you. Then, okay. After a week they call us, they say, come and pick up the passports. The new passports they were all in a box, all of them still hot, all in a box. And we got a passport for everybody. And then we  organize the trip to come to, to Israel. And the trip we did it. Everybody knew that they were going via Athens, but they were going via Cyprus. [01:50:29] But before the departure, I was in the hotel in Cairo and a gentlemen calls me up. He says, I have to meet you for a few minutes. I am in the hotel as well. I said, okay. He comes and it’s this tall guy, very nice guy, big smile, and he say, I want to come to Israel with the group. I look at him and say, we don’t, we really don’t need any security. [01:51:08] He say, it’s not security. I want to come to Israel with a group, with my wife. When I say… there is a reason. I say, you know what? Call your agent and tell him that you’re sitting with me. And then we continue talking. I call my agent, I say I’m sitting with - ah, yeah, he’s the president of basketball association. Very nice guy, very nice guy. [01:51:36] I say, okay thank you. I go back. I said, what are you trying to organize? A basketball game with [inaudible]. They will kill each other. It’s not a time. He says, no, no, no. It’s completely different. Then he tells me a story, it’s in my book this story, no? About the fact that he’s married to this woman, and she doesn’t know that she’s Jewish. [01:52:02] What happened in ’56, when a lot of Jews left, the family left and the family thought that she was on board of a boat but she was not. Then to save her, they brought her to the house of an uncle of this guy and then they fall in love and they got married. And he say, I always felt bad that I cannot say to my wife origin, but this is the time.

[01:52:32] Walter Arbib: I said, okay, you know what? It’s fine. We take you. I advised Israel. I say, listen, we have this story then [inaudible] was a journalist with Israeli television came with camera at the Hotel Shalom, in Jerusalem where they went. And  I was there. It really was shocking because they bought him in and she came with him inside this caravan. [01:53:07] And in that moment, she was still saying to her husband, why we are here? And in that moment, he asked to talk and he say in Arabic, for her to understand, my wife is a Jew. She doesn’t know. Now she knows. And I want her to meet the family because the family is here. [01:53:41]  She started becoming hysteric. It’s not true, it’s not true. Went online on television her story. After half an hour two cars come, and here is her family. Here is her family. The sister looks like her. That’s why I say, here is her family. I saw her sister. I said, she’s there, immediately. And they were, they became crazy. We had the doctor even tried to calm them down and give them…[01:54:20]  And what’s fascinating to see, the mother reminding the daughter why she is the daughter. You remember when you were playing with that ball and you had this ball in [inaudible]. Yes. You remember that you had another girl with you that was your sister? Then everything started to, to go into her brain. [01:54:49] And she was, she was lost in a way, but she realized, she came, she kissed everybody. And the day after I saw her for breakfast and I say, you hate me or what do you… She say, I don’t even know. But one thing is sure I’m going back to Egypt because my husband and my children. I’m going back to Egypt. That’s hundred percent sure. Everything else in this moment, I have a family. I’m really thrilled, but my house is in Egypt.

[01:55:30] Interviewer: 

Why did you leave Israel and come to Canada?

[01:55:34] Walter Arbib: 

Because for what I wanted to do and I have done, it was very difficult to do it in Israel because of Israel, all the restrictions of the Arab world, etc. Then I met Edie, she had family in Canada and we got married in Israel and  Edie was pushing me to come to Canada. The credit goes to her, pushing me to come to Canada. And, uh, we came to Canada and, uh, we start from zero, but at least I had a vision of what I wanted to do. 

[01:56:17] Interviewer: And what year did you come to Canada? 

[01:56:18] Walter Arbib: ’88.

[01:56:20] Interviewer: 

What business did you do then in Canada? What was your business?

[01:56:23] Walter Arbib: 

An office in Gloucester with an Indian partner because the funniest part is that my Egypt agent - by the way,   if you want, I can give you the book to read because it’s in English - my Egyptian agent was talking to Edie and he say, I think that I found the person that is suitable to Walter and they can work together. [01:56:54] And, uh, then, then I talked to him over the phone to this Indian gentleman. And, um, yeah, we decided over the phone that we would work together. He was living in L.A. He had an office here in Gloucester street, a one-room office, and I moved into that one-room office. And after a while, he came to see me and we started together.

[01:57:30] Interviewer: 

What was the company? 

[01:57:34] Walter Arbib: Skylink [ph]. 

[01:57:34] Interviewer: Skylink and what did Skylink do?  

[01:57:38] Walter Arbib: 

Travel at the time. Only travel. Travel agency. 

[01:57:43] Interviewer: Travel agency.  And Skylink grew into just traveling agency? Or did it do more than just…

[01:57:48] Walter Arbib: 

No. Then we start aviation and we start…

[01:57:51] Interviewer: 

And the aviation what? Planes for…

[01:57:55] Interviewer: For various governments.

[01:57:57] Interviewer: For various governments regarding emergencies…?

[01:58:01] Walter Arbib: 

Emergency. Then we got the contract to manage for the U.S. government Iraq…

[01:58:07] Interviewer: Iraq war. 

[01:58:09] Walter Arbib: 

Logistics. Not the war. 

[01:58:12] Interviewer: 

Just logistics. Equipment and goods, or…?

[01:58:19] Walter Arbib: 

We have done, we have done. At the time it was the beginning. We went in when the Marines went in, before the army. We wanted to [take off] a sign, the signed that said Saddam Hussein airport.  And we were there before.  And we were there for about three years for the U.S. government.

[01:58:40] Interviewer: 

And did you also bring things to other countries?

[01:58:42] Walter Arbib: 

Yeah, so we, we worked with the, with the American. We worked sometime with the Italian, British. We worked with quite a number of countries.

[01:58:55] Interviewer: 

And now are you still involved or are you retired?

[01:59:02] Walter Arbib: 

I am…I’m retired. And my son, is running the show. I sold the company about seven years ago. And I could not, I could not do anything for five years. Then I decided to retire. And then my son reopen a new company.

[01:59:24] Interviewer: 

So let me ask you a few questions, final questions. In the conversation, you talked about Libya, you talk about, Shabbat, bar mitzvah, different kinds of Jewish things, Israel, but you don’t mention the word Sephardi. Do you see yourself as Sephardi at all, in terms of your identity? How does - 

[01:59:50] Walter Arbib: How do I look? 

[01:59:53] Interviewer: How do you look. I don’t know. You look handsome. [laughs]

[01:59:55] Walter Arbib: 

Handsome, Sephardic Jew. [laughs]

[02:00:03] Interviewer: 

Would you consider yourself a refugee?

[02:00:07] Walter Arbib: A lucky one.

[02:00:09] Interviewer: A lucky refugee. Where do you consider home? What’s home for you? You’ve lived in Italy, you’ve live in Israel, here. Where is home?

[02:00:20] Walter Arbib: 

You know, when people ask me, I say that my heart is divided. One third is Italian. One third is Israeli. One third is Canadian and 1% is Libyan.

[02:00:36] Interviewer: 

Hmm.

[02:00:37] Walter Arbib: 

But they can, if they want, they can make more than 1%. It’s up to them. Not to me.

[02:00:45] Interviewer: 

Since 1968, have you ever gone back to Libya?

[02:00:51] Walter Arbib: 

I went back to Libya in’68, yes. 

[02:00:55] Interviewer: Since ’68? 

[02:00:56] Walter Arbib: No. 

[02:00:59] Interviewer: 

So one last question and that is, people will listen to this interview. What message do you want to give to them?

[02:01:08] Walter Arbib: That hate doesn’t help. You have to try to find solutions, not hate. To tell you frankly, I helped the Libyans after, I helped them. And the Libyan, I cannot hate - there are quite a number of Libyan Jews, they hate Libya, they don’t want to forget about Libya. First of all, you cannot forget where you came from first. [02:01:43] And secondly, you cannot blame the whole population for some people. You cannot. I think it is wrong.  you cannot is. Then if you go, even in Libyan blog, it was one that touched me, because during the Ghaddafi … revolution against Gaddafi, I helped Libyan with medicine. [02:02:19] And in the blog the Libyan said that the Libyan Jew that we throw away,  we sent him away, he still helped us. And, um, it’s funny because in this blog, they still, now they call me Mr. President. 

[02:02:39] Walter Arbib:  And, uh, I think that, uh, you have… we have to understand that we need - the world needs  to find solutions as well. What is happening now I say… and don’t misunderstand, I am not a leftist, I’m a rightist, I work with my ideas. [02:03:12] Children in various parts of the world they are still dying and dying because of their government a lot of them. I’ve been very involved in quite a number of problems. One is Somalia, where it is a terrible, terrible situation that I’ve been there. And I’ve been involved on that. [02:03:45]  I’ve been involved with Yemen, I see what is going on now in Yemen. And I never refuse to, to try to find a way to help, help if I can. If I cannot I don’t, but if I can. And I was lucky because the fact that I came, I came out alive is really an achievement. [02:04:15] And I, I thank the country that helped. I thank Italy. We have a great debt towards Italy and nothing is given by chance, but the Italian help the Jews. And, when I go to the highest Italian recognition from Italian government, I say, I say to them, I say, I have to thank you. You don’t have to thank me. 

[02:04:53] Walter Arbib: You don’t need to thank me. But I need to thank you and my debt towards you is - you cannot pay it with money or anything. Just saying thanks again and again. And the Italian lately [inaudible]. They had gave me the title of Italian ambassador for peace, for Italian government. And - it’s symbolic really.  It shows that they recognized that my idea is right in a way, and Israel, I’m trying to help Israel whenever I can and I will continue to do so until I can. [02:05:46] And, uh, we have to look for the future of the children. Because ours is too late. I can go to Miami, can go there, but the children are the one that are suffering.  

[02:06:05] Interviewer: 

So let me say how much Sephardi Voices appreciates. You taking so much time to share with us your story. And I look forward to getting it onto transcript and sharing. Thank you.