Violet Esser
Cleaned by: Julia Pappo
Transcribed by: Rev
Interview date: November 23rd, 2018
Interviewer: Henry Green
Location: Toronto
Total time: 1:24:37
Violet Esser: Born on February 2nd, 1937 in Amarah, Iraq. Arrived in Israel in 1950. Arrived in Toronto in 1957.
Henry Green (00:00:12):
What is your full name?
Violet Esser (00:00:14):
Violet Esser.
Henry Green (00:00:15):
And was this your name at birth?
Violet Esser (00:00:18):
Violet was at birth. Esser was acquired.
Henry Green (00:00:22):
What's your maiden name?
Violet Esser (00:00:23):
Levy.
Henry Green (00:00:24):
And when were you born?
Violet Esser (00:00:26):
In 1937, 2nd of February.
Henry Green (00:00:29):
And where were you born?
Violet Esser (00:00:31):
In Amarah, Iraq.
Henry Green (00:00:34):
So first, let me say how much we appreciate that, um, you volunteered to be interviewed for Sephardi Voices.
Violet Esser (00:00:42):
I'm very happy to do it, and I'm, I'm thrilled that somebody is taking up the cause and, and make it a little bit more upfront because we have been ignored all these years, and, and, and that's kind of painful because the Sephardic Jews like the, the, the Jews from Arab land had their own history and it was kind of, uh, shoved, uh, aside.
Henry Green (00:01:06):
So why don't we begin with the sort of general questions. Tell me something about your, your family background, your, let's say your grandparents, your parents. Give me some background of your family.
Violet Esser (00:01:17):
Uh, grandparents, my mother's grandparents, uh, were always in Baghdad. And, uh, my mother left Baghdad because she married somebody from Amarah. My father is from Amarah, which is a smaller town, uh, southward between sort of, sort of, uh, uh, Baghdad and, uh, Basrah. And, um, his, his family was there, so she had to move where he was. And, uh, most of the family was born in Amarah, all the kids. But after the Farhud, uh, my father, for some reason ... I don't know really. I was too young. They moved to, to Baghdad. So that's the story. My youngest, uh, sister was born just about a month ... She was a month old when we moved, and that was after the Farhud.
Henry Green (00:02:05):
So go, let's go back to your grandparents. So your father's parents, your father's parents, your grandfather, what was his name? Do you know his name, your grandfather's name?
Violet Esser (00:02:13):
Ephraim.
Henry Green (00:02:13):
Ephraim. And his wife, your grandmother?
Violet Esser (00:02:17):
My ... Dina.
Henry Green (00:02:18):
Dina. And what, do you remember their surname?
Violet Esser (00:02:21):
Uh, they would be Levy.
Henry Green (00:02:23):
They would be Levy?
Violet Esser (00:02:24):
Yes.
Henry Green (00:02:25):
And, um, they, um, what did your grandfather do? Do you ... What kind of work?
Violet Esser (00:02:30):
Uh, that, you know, they were, they were, um, mostly merchants really, like storekeepers and that kind of thing. And I think my father was working in the family business, but then he branched off and went on his own in Baghdad. And they s-, he started to be a more, kind of more sophisticated merchant as he's trying to do commerce with the, with India, with Europe. And, uh, he had a brother, a younger brother, so they, they were partners and they, they moved on to Baghdad.
Henry Green (00:03:01):
What about your, your mother's, uh, parents? Uh, what, what were their names?
Violet Esser (00:03:10):
Their name was, uh, Mukamel.
Henry Green (00:03:10):
That's the surname?
Violet Esser (00:03:11):
The surname, yeah.
Henry Green (00:03:11):
And, and what was the, uh, grandfather's name? Do you remember?
Violet Esser (00:03:14):
Uh, Jacob and Tova.
Henry Green (00:03:17):
And Tova. And they were from, uh, um, which city?
Violet Esser (00:03:22):
They were in Baghdad-
Henry Green (00:03:23):
They were in Baghdad. [crosstalk 00:03:23]-
Violet Esser (00:03:23):
... all along. That's, uh, as, as, as I remember. We joined them there.
Henry Green (00:03:27):
So do you have memories with your grandparents at all?
Violet Esser (00:03:30):
Yes, of course.
Henry Green (00:03:31):
Can you share some of them?
Violet Esser (00:03:31):
Of course, of course. Um, we used ... Uh, um, my maternal grandparents were on the way home, uh, from school. So once in a while, we'd stop there and we would get candy, we'd get our favourite little, uh, sweets and things like that. Uh, that's about all I remember really from there. They had a small house and they had, uh, um, nothing, nothing elaborate. But it's lovely memories, you know, the sweets and the visits and-
Henry Green (00:04:01):
And what language would you speak [crosstalk 00:04:03]-
Violet Esser (00:04:03):
Arabic.
Henry Green (00:04:04):
Arabic?
Violet Esser (00:04:04):
Arabic.
Henry Green (00:04:04):
And-
Violet Esser (00:04:05):
They didn't speak any other language. Hebrew was a prayer language. The men knew Hebrew very well because of the prayers and all were very versed because they, that it, it was like a, an Orthodox lifestyle. But there were none of those divisions like they have, uh, in modern times. Everybody was Orthodox, but you, you chose how far you wanna, you go through it, you know, how liberal you wanna be. It was like optional for you to practice as much as you want.
Henry Green (00:04:35):
And what about your grandmother? Do you have special stories of, of her?
Violet Esser (00:04:38):
Um, I think I was too young. Because even when I left and we were kinda dispersed all over the place, I was only about 11 years old, 12 years old. So, and, uh, the few years before our immigration were kind of, uh, very unsettling times, so we didn't have that much, uh, of ... We didn't create any memories, let's say, except for the bad ones. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:05:06):
What about with your father's parents? Any memories with them at all?
Violet Esser (00:05:10):
No. I left, uh, Amarah when I was a preschooler. So everything is vague. Vague like, like of a four, four year old would remember.
Henry Green (00:05:19):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Violet Esser (00:05:20):
Very little.
Henry Green (00:05:22):
Did, did, um, do you know how your parents met, the story of their meeting?
Violet Esser (00:05:28):
Uh, it was, it was, it, it, that, it's a Shidduch, that's the practice of the day. So somebody knows somebody and, uh, the families get together and they, they know, uh, uh ... The family kind of tree is very important. They always wanted to marry well, and they had to ... It's more important to see the family that you're marrying into than the, the spouse you're gonna choose for life. So it was prearranged marriages all the time.
Henry Green (00:05:53):
And what was your father's name?
Violet Esser (00:05:55):
Yakov.
Henry Green (00:05:55):
And your mother's?
Violet Esser (00:05:57):
Rosa.
Henry Green (00:05:59):
And how old was your father when he married?
Violet Esser (00:06:01):
He was pretty young. I believe maybe he was a-, about 18 years old.
Henry Green (00:06:04):
And your mother?
Violet Esser (00:06:05):
Well, maybe 14, 15.
Henry Green (00:06:08):
And were they cousins?
Violet Esser (00:06:09):
Nope. They were not related.
Henry Green (00:06:12):
Not related. And, um, and your father, you said was a merchant?
Violet Esser (00:06:18):
Yes.
Henry Green (00:06:18):
And, um, and your, your mom, she was, uh, a housewife at home?
Violet Esser (00:06:27):
Yes.
Henry Green (00:06:28):
And you said you lived, and at four years old, you moved to Baghdad, you said.
Violet Esser (00:06:33):
Right.
Henry Green (00:06:33):
And, uh, did you have help in the house at all?
Violet Esser (00:06:37):
Yes, yes. Always with big families like that, it was very affordable to have help. Um, there were somebody that would come, uh, uh, a Jewish person from up north who, who are the Kurds, Jewish Kurds. Uh, they, they really were poor poor, very poor. And, uh, the, the girls, uh, would come and then would become, uh, a servant. And they will stay on and on, day and night. They sleep in. And that's for helping around the house with the cooking, cleaning, et cetera.
Violet Esser (00:07:12):
And they have somebody who did the laundry, came to do the laundry once a week, because it was all done by hand. And for a family of eight and few extra ones here and there, it was a big chore. It was ... I remember that laundry by (laughing) hand and we would hang it. There're no dryers. We'd hang them on ropes. And it was a, a, a day to remember once a week. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:07:36):
What, what kind of house did you ... Was it a house, an apartment, a-
Violet Esser (00:07:39):
Uh, no, it was a private home. Uh, but, you know, the buildings over there, they have a, a courtyard. Like in the middle, it's open to the sky. And then the bedrooms and all the facilities and the washrooms and so on are around the courtyard. And you enter the house and you're in the courtyard. And there's like, um, an alleyway and you just, it would, it goes around the, the courtyard and it branches off into the different, um, rooms. So we had a dining room, have a family room that was on the main floor, the kitchen, a f-, a, a bathroom with a shower that would be on the main floor. A storage area would be on the main floor. And there would always be something in the basement because we didn't have enough refrigeration, so the basement was cool.
Violet Esser (00:08:27):
So when there's, in season you bought in bulk and put it down in the basement, uh, for the, uh, rest of the year, hopefully. Or you made preserves and you kept them down there. And there would be some, on the main floor, there would be a bathroom, maybe a couple, uh, a kitchen and, and, and so on. And upstairs would be the bedroom. And on the third story, there would be an open roof because in the summer, there, of course there's no air conditioning and all that stuff, we would sleep under the skies. And that was wonderful. It was scary at times, but it was (laughing) wonderful.
Henry Green (00:09:07):
Why was it (laughing) scary?
Violet Esser (00:09:09):
It's dark and there's no light, you know, especially if the moon is not on. I don't know. It's scary. You're a kid. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:09:16):
Were you in the mellah? Was your place in the mellah or was it in a-
Violet Esser (00:09:18):
No, no.
Henry Green (00:09:19):
... [inaudible 00:09:19] or which area? Do you remember?
Violet Esser (00:09:20):
No. No. We were in [inaudible 00:09:21].
Henry Green (00:09:22):
[inaudible 00:09:22]?
Violet Esser (00:09:22):
Yeah. That's kind of a, the, they migrated to the first area in the north. They were, uh, uh, the, the school was in the area that you, you, you mentioned where it was the old Jewish kind of quarter. We never had any ghettos, but it was mainly like the Jewish, uh, uh, stores. And you did your shopping over there, especially for the meat, the kosher meat. So you had to schlep all the way down there, but we the, that's the first move kind of northwards away from the, um, "ghetto". It's not a ghetto really.
Henry Green (00:09:56):
Did, did your, did you, uh, did your mother go shopping?
Violet Esser (00:10:00):
No. Women didn't do that. The male did that. So at the beginning, there would be a, some helper in, from the office, from my dad office that would do the shopping daily. Because the meat, there's no refrigeration, so everything has to be done daily. And then as the kids get older, the boys got older, they assume that responsibility. Every morning before school, they'd go early down, buy, fill up their baskets and they bring it home.
Henry Green (00:10:30):
Was that a shuk or was it a, uh-
Violet Esser (00:10:32):
Uh, yeah, it's like a shuk. Like, you know, you buy, you buy the vegetables, you, you, you have to shop daily. And especially the meat, you know. We have ice boxes, but very small.
Henry Green (00:10:45):
Did you have a garden in the house?
Violet Esser (00:10:47):
Not this one. This was like, uh, row houses. We shared the walls on both sides. And appa-, uh, uh, and, and actually you could talk to your neighbour when you are sleeping upstairs. (laughs) You could just shout out and, and, and kind of stick your head out and you go to the next, and you'd speak to your neighbour. But we had-
Henry Green (00:11:03):
Was your neigh-, were your neighborus Jewish-
Violet Esser (00:11:05):
Uh, it was a mix.
Henry Green (00:11:06):
... or Muslim?
Violet Esser (00:11:06):
It was a mixed neighbourhood, but mostly Jewish in that area where we lived. There were a few, uh, Muslims, and we didn't interact very much with them. We, you know, there was always a, a barrier. First of all, the Kashrut is a big issue, so you can't eat at each other home. And culturally speaking, even the dialect is a little different. We were, as soon as we opened up our mouth, we, we, we, it was written across the, our forehead we are Jewish because the dialect is very different.
Henry Green (00:11:39):
So it, it, uh, so you, you spoke the Judaeo-Arabic?
Violet Esser (00:11:42):
Yes. That's kind of-
Henry Green (00:11:43):
And when you talk to the Muslims, did you speak the Muslim Arabic?
Violet Esser (00:11:46):
I tried. I tried, but I don't, I, I, I d-, I wasn't versed in their ... Even now when I'm in Israel, I try to say a few words in Arabic and I, I get lost. I get lost. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:11:59):
So tell me about your, your, your siblings. So you're, you said you were born in '37.
Violet Esser (00:12:04):
Uh-huh (affirmative), yes.
Henry Green (00:12:05):
And you, what number were you of, uh, how many?
Violet Esser (00:12:06):
Uh, number six.
Henry Green (00:12:08):
Number six. Okay. So who was number one?
Violet Esser (00:12:10):
Number one is, uh, I have, uh, my sister Naomi and there's a 18 year difference between us.
Henry Green (00:12:16):
18 years.
Violet Esser (00:12:17):
Difference-
Henry Green (00:12:17):
Wow.
Violet Esser (00:12:17):
... between us.
Henry Green (00:12:18):
So Naomi's number one. And she was born when? Roughly-
Violet Esser (00:12:21):
Well, take away from '37, 18 years. How much would that bring her up to? Uh-
Henry Green (00:12:26):
It is '25, '27 is 17. Uh-
Violet Esser (00:12:28):
'20. '19, 1919.
Henry Green (00:12:30):
... 1919.
Violet Esser (00:12:30):
1919.
Henry Green (00:12:31):
So after, after World War I?
Violet Esser (00:12:34):
Yes.
Henry Green (00:12:34):
It was at the end of World War I.
Violet Esser (00:12:35):
... 1919. Yes.
Henry Green (00:12:35):
And, and um, she, um, uh, is, is still living or not?
Violet Esser (00:12:40):
No. She passed away.
Henry Green (00:12:42):
And where did she end up living afterwards? Where did [crosstalk 00:12:44]-
Violet Esser (00:12:44):
She'd, we, we all went to Israel except for one of my brothers who was, uh, studying in the Sorbonne in, uh ... He left Iraq in '45 and he went to university there. And, um, but the rest of the family, they all ended up in Israel.
Henry Green (00:13:03):
All ended up in Israel. Okay. So 1919 is Naomi. Who's number two?
Violet Esser (00:13:07):
Aaron, and he's also deceased. And he's, uh, probably was born a, a year or two after her.
Henry Green (00:13:13):
Number three?
Violet Esser (00:13:15):
David. That's the physician who was studying in the Sorbonne.
Henry Green (00:13:18):
And where is David now or-
Violet Esser (00:13:19):
David is around Toronto. Thank God he's still with us. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:13:23):
Fantastic. And fourth, who's fourth?
Violet Esser (00:13:25):
Four is, uh, Minuri. He studied in a Technion and he did the, service the army. And he ended up, uh, marrying in Montreal. And then eventually, eventually he went to the States.
Henry Green (00:13:38):
Number five?
Violet Esser (00:13:39):
Number five, my sister has never left Israel. She got married and she stayed there.
Henry Green (00:13:45):
And she is number five, so that's before you? She would be born a few years before you then or two years?
Violet Esser (00:13:48):
Yeah, a couple of years. A couple of years.
Henry Green (00:13:50):
Then you're '37. And who's number seven?
Violet Esser (00:13:53):
Uh, it's, I have a sister. I have two sisters here. So seven and eight are here and they live in Toronto.
Henry Green (00:14:01):
And their names are?
Violet Esser (00:14:02):
Helen and Miriam.
Henry Green (00:14:02):
And Miriam. Wow. Nice big family.
Violet Esser (00:14:06):
Nice. Nice. It's a nice always to have a sibling.
Henry Green (00:14:10):
So-
Violet Esser (00:14:10):
You fight with one and you make love with the other. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:14:14):
(laughs). So let's, let's go back to your early memories then. Uh, you were talking about stopping on school, uh, at, uh, on your way home from school, with the, uh, and to your grandparents. But what do you remember about the house? So you're, you're living in Baghdad. And-
Violet Esser (00:14:28):
Right.
Henry Green (00:14:29):
... uh, did you share a room with your sisters?
Violet Esser (00:14:31):
Yes. Yes. Because, uh, sometimes we shared the bed. For a long time we'd share the bed when we were young. And I remember my grandmother, uh, on my father's side lost her husband early on, my grandfather. And she moved with us and she lived with us. And she was a storyteller. At night, we snuggle up with her in bed and she would tell us all sorts of stories from her head. I don't know. (laughs) And that was fun.
Henry Green (00:15:04):
Stories that were, um, about family or stories about-
Violet Esser (00:15:09):
Well, you, you know-
Henry Green (00:15:09):
... or fiction, just make up?
Violet Esser (00:15:10):
... in-, invented.
Henry Green (00:15:11):
Invented.
Violet Esser (00:15:12):
And may make up stories about the kings and the, and the, the prince and the fighting, and they ate too much, and they ate too (laughing) little. But they were nice stories that put you to sleep. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:15:23):
And did, uh, did your grandmother cook?
Violet Esser (00:15:27):
Uh, maybe she would help a little bit here and there cutting vegetables or what have you. But the cooking was done-
Henry Green (00:15:33):
And no special dishes or-
Violet Esser (00:15:34):
Uh, no. Well, my mother was very good at that and that she had a helper in the kitchen, so they would, uh ... But, you know, everything it was, have to be done from scratch. All the vegetables have to be inspected, all because ... Like, like I remember when we had to prepare for Pesach. From Purim to Pesach, we have to examine every kernel of, of wheat to make sure there's none of those other things that are a mess, you know. It, it, it was everything, everything is re-, you know, done from step one. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:16:07):
So tell me about Pesach. What was Pesach like or Seder? Who [crosstalk 00:16:11]-
Violet Esser (00:16:11):
Pesach was wonderful. It was wonderful. Nice memories because we, I love the dishes, you know, dishes that were hiding for a whole year.
Henry Green (00:16:18):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (00:16:18):
We got rid of the old dishes. We put them away and we get the new dishes, and you get, you know, a new set of clothing. I remember one time I was very upset because the dress I got and I was getting, coming out of the bathroom and the dress got wet. And I was so upset because it's not new anymore. It was wrinkled a (laughing) little bit. So I remember that on the holidays we got new outfits and so on. That was a special occasion. And of course the haroset that we make for Pesach, you'll love it because everybody, I share it now with the friends here, they go crazy about it. We have the date syrup and we grind up the nuts, the walnuts, and we put them together and we never stop eating them. The whole eight days is a luxury. It's not only for the Seder night, but it's the exquisite flavor and taste, and the sweet. It's just wonderful. I said, "You have to try the Iraqi haroset. It's not like the Moroccan either."
Henry Green (00:17:19):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (00:17:20):
We have to get the dates from the tree and squeeze the juice out and reduce it on a low temperature. It's a big production. And it has to be all kind of [inaudible 00:17:30]. You have to do it with the special dishes, and you have to clean up your, the, the area that you're working in. And we have to bake our own matzah. We start from Purim, getting the, the, the wheat all checked, taking it to the, to the mill. Having it all converted into flour. And we would take turn, families with take turn to bake their own matzah. For instance, like this week, we do our matzah. Next week we'll do my aunt matzah. So the house it would become a, a little bakery. (laughs) [crosstalk 00:18:09]-
Henry Green (00:18:08):
And were the, and did you bake the matzah right in the courtyard or did-
Violet Esser (00:18:09):
In the courtyard, yeah. We have, um, uh ... What do they call them? Uh, a clay oven. Uh, well, you know, like a li- ... You have them in, in [inaudible 00:18:18] if you are in Israel. Exactly that same oven. But it stands on its own because it's a private one, it's not a commercial. And then you put the wood underneath, uh, inside, light it up and it becomes like a charcoal. And then the walls are very hot. So you make the little, uh, round cakes, very thin. You slap them. It's like the, uh, Laffa that you have here. Slap them on the wall. In five seconds, they're done. And you take them out and you, you just pile them on the side. They co-, they cool, and they, they were put away for the ...
Violet Esser (00:18:54):
It's a hard holiday. It's a very hard time. All these women, they work their butt off. They really did. And they, the, uh, and, and, as, as kids, I remember we were definitely participating in, in doing all these things because they need working hands. I remember we, every evening, after, after finishing our schoolwork and things, we would have a job to examine the, the wheat, every night. (laughs) Have a pile of wheat, you know, just go sort it out, sort it out, sort it out. We put it on a tray and you sort up the, and take out the bad ones, throw them away. And then you, you, you amass the amount that you need for making the flour.
Henry Green (00:19:34):
You were the inspector.
Violet Esser (00:19:35):
Wow. (laughs).
Henry Green (00:19:38):
So at the Seder, for example, um, who would say the Ma Nishtana?
Violet Esser (00:19:43):
That was a big, big show. All the little ones, they get, uh, separated from the, there. And they get to carry a bag, like made out of maybe, uh, some cloth. And inside, they would stuff it with some, whatever your favourite thing, a toy or food. And this, and you carry it on. And we make the great big entrance as the parents call us, "Where are you coming from? Where are you going?" And we would answer the questions. "We're coming from Mitzrayim. We're going to Yerushalayim, um, to Israel." And then Ma Nishtana and then we start to say the [inaudible 00:20:25]. It was a very nice event for the little kids to participate in that. They were really feeling that they're coming in a journey, on a journey of anticipation.
Henry Green (00:20:35):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Violet Esser (00:20:36):
And then of course, the haroset, you couldn't wait until the end of the night (laughing) to, to get into the haroset.
Henry Green (00:20:42):
So the family, it's the, the parents and eight kids and grandmother. Would anyone be coming into the Seder? Uh, did you invite anyone one else?
Violet Esser (00:20:51):
Uh, it's enough. You have enough. You have enough family itself. But if there, uh, if, if somebody didn't have a place, they would definitely be included. But families were big and they were self-sufficient. They have almost a million if they-
Henry Green (00:21:03):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (00:21:03):
... wanted to. (laughs).
Henry Green (00:21:05):
And what was ... So that's Pesach. So let's take us to, uh, like Shabbat. What would Shabbat be like?
Violet Esser (00:21:10):
Shabbat is very well observed. My mother would be cooking and cleaning all Friday. We take a shower, we make sure we're all clean. And by the evening, we have a beautiful, uh, dinner, uh, setting up. And then the next day, my father would go to shul and then we'll have another big lunch. And the seudah shlishit and, and that's it. That's it.
Henry Green (00:21:32):
Did your father go to shul Friday night too?
Violet Esser (00:21:34):
Uh, yes, yes, yes. Before the dinner, he would be at the shul and then he'll come and then he, we'll all sit around a table and then we would eat.
Henry Green (00:21:43):
And what would your mother cook? What kind of food would you have?
Violet Esser (00:21:46):
Uh, uh, I tell you the situation in Iraq with the, with the meat dishes, meat was very expensive, meat and chicken. So, uh, the portions of that were very small, and we ate a lot of rice and a lot of vegetables. So my mother would, believe it or not, we are what, 10 people in the house? And my grandmother there, there's 11, maybe 12 people. We would make, from one chicken, we would make supper. We would take out the skin and all that stuff and stuff it up and make the, uh, overnight, uh, hamin. We call it tabit.
Henry Green (00:22:23):
Tabit, yeah.
Violet Esser (00:22:23):
Yes. And that's for lunch basically. That's the main meal. The main meal.
Henry Green (00:22:28):
It's like the cholent, it's like the [inaudible 00:22:28] for the, uh, [inaudible 00:22:28].
Violet Esser (00:22:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. And that's with the one chicken in a family of 10, 12. And, um, at night, we were very, very light stuff. So that's what it was.
Henry Green (00:22:41):
Did your father say kiddish and hamotzi?
Violet Esser (00:22:43):
Yes, of course, of course. [crosstalk 00:22:45]-
Henry Green (00:22:44):
And after the meal, would he, uh, bless the, uh, birkat hamazon?
Violet Esser (00:22:48):
Yes. Yes, yes. I remember when we, when he blessed the kids, we would stand in a lineup. And, you know, like before Shabbat starts-
Henry Green (00:22:55):
Right.
Violet Esser (00:22:56):
... and he put his hand on each one of us. But he doesn't bother saying the whole thing all over. So for the four girls, we were four girls in a row. He would break it up. [foreign language 00:23:06]. (laughs).
Henry Green (00:23:07):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (00:23:09):
He, he isn't gonna repeat the whole thing.
Henry Green (00:23:11):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (00:23:11):
(laughs).
Henry Green (00:23:11):
Did he-
Violet Esser (00:23:14):
Yeah.
Henry Green (00:23:14):
... did he say [inaudible 00:23:15], for, uh-
Violet Esser (00:23:15):
Yes, yes. Yeah, I remember all these songs from there, form there. Very, uh, traditional Orthodox, you know.
Henry Green (00:23:26):
Did he put on tefillin in the morning?
Violet Esser (00:23:27):
Yes, he did.
Henry Green (00:23:27):
Every morning he would wear it?
Violet Esser (00:23:28):
He did, yes. Yeah.
Henry Green (00:23:30):
What about your brothers? Did they do that [crosstalk 00:23:31]-
Violet Esser (00:23:33):
That's the next generation, and it started to rebel a little bit. And they start to become very westernized. And there was always a conflict in a, you know, who's gonna the battle, my father or the boys? But he insisted on them to say, but they were resentful a little bit of, of observing. They didn't really wanna be tied down. But they respected Shabbat. That they, you know ... My father was in trouble because he couldn't smoke at Shabbat, and he was very irritable. (laughing) Irritable. Oh my God. By the end to Shabbat, he went nuts. (laughs).
Henry Green (00:24:09):
(laughs). Did your, did, um, do you remember, do ... When would you go to synagogue? Would you go Rosh Hashanah or wou-, you wouldn't e- Shabbat, you wouldn't go, I suppose.
Violet Esser (00:24:16):
Uh, by and large, no.
Henry Green (00:24:17):
No.
Violet Esser (00:24:18):
No, no.
Henry Green (00:24:18):
So Rosh Hashanah?
Violet Esser (00:24:18):
We, we, we were busy, we were busy cracking those seeds.
Henry Green (00:24:24):
Right.
Violet Esser (00:24:24):
Nobody had (laughing) time to go to shul (laughs) or Shabbat. You had a pile of seed you had to finish. That's a [inaudible 00:24:28]. No, we'd go on the special occasion, Holidays and-
Henry Green (00:24:32):
Rosh Hashanah?
Violet Esser (00:24:33):
Yeah, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur. My mother went also on those special times, you know. Uh, not too often. I would say maybe more than, you know, the three or four times a year, maybe. And, and the girls went, but the boys had to schlep with the father.
Henry Green (00:24:48):
[inaudible 00:24:48], right. And did, do you know, remember the name of the shul, the synagogue?
Violet Esser (00:24:51):
Not really. It was down the street from us. It was really walking.
Henry Green (00:24:54):
So you could walk?
Violet Esser (00:24:55):
You definitely could walk. It maybe not even two minutes walk.
Henry Green (00:24:58):
So it was [inaudible 00:24:58]?
Violet Esser (00:24:58):
Yeah.
Henry Green (00:24:58):
Yeah.
Violet Esser (00:25:00):
Yeah, yeah. My father wouldn't ... I mean, uh, the, the lights were on and, uh, if you turned off the lights, oh boy, that will be a disaster for my father. It was very hard on him.
Henry Green (00:25:12):
Did your father have other kinds of activities? Did he go to the cafe and go to the [crosstalk 00:25:16]-
Violet Esser (00:25:16):
Yes. He's a shesh besh all the time.
Henry Green (00:25:18):
He's shesh besh?
Violet Esser (00:25:18):
Yes, shesh besh. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:25:18):
Was he any good at it?
Violet Esser (00:25:18):
I don't (laughing) know. I-
Henry Green (00:25:24):
You never went and, uh, saw him win the [crosstalk 00:25:24]-
Violet Esser (00:25:25):
No, no, no, no. The gir-, the girls, uh, the girls had a different lifestyle. They stayed around, they learned how to sew, they learned how to knit. Uh, they'd help with the cooking and baking, that kind of stuff. And the boys had a different life. They went with the father. But eventually they really, like I said, they wanted to be more like free from religion. And, and that was very pronounced, because at that period of life, there was that introduction of, uh, Z-, uh, of, o-, of Zionism and communism.
Violet Esser (00:26:00):
And a lot of the young generation went for communism because the idea was so tempting, it was so inviting to have equality and sharing the wealth and so on. And some of them went into, to Zionism, but not as strong as into communism. They were the backbone of the communist party, those, uh, young, um, uh, school kids. You know, the higher, uh, you know, highly educated. Like in between high school and university, they were very active in communism.
Henry Green (00:26:31):
Your brothers, were they active in this?
Violet Esser (00:26:32):
Yes. And my uncles too. Yes. Yes. They were promoting communism, and it, it wasn't so bad. But then things politically changed and they'd start to imprison those people. And especially the Zionists, they really got it tough, very tough. They had to run away from home if they didn't make the trip to Israel. That's before the independence, you know.
Henry Green (00:27:00):
Did your, was your uncle put in jail at all?
Violet Esser (00:27:03):
My father had to, uh, was put in jail, my father. Though on a trumped up charge. I don't know what it was, but I remember it was a, it was a very traumatic experience because I, uh, we had to, uh, you had to s- take food every day because he's kosher. So we had to take food and have somebody to schlep the food to the prison. But it wasn't a, a long time because, uh, uh, you could bribe your way out. The whole idea is to get money, to extort ... It's an extortion situation, you know. They put you in jail on trumped up charges and then, so they kill you if you didn't have the money.
Violet Esser (00:27:38):
If you have the money, they got richer. So we, uh, we had to really bribe our way out. And since he, that experience, he left the country. He left the country and he went, uh, uh, uh, clandestinely to Iran. Iran was a very inviting country, and, uh, uh, he stayed in Iran. And then from there, he went to Israel on his own.
Henry Green (00:28:03):
What, what year did he, uh, was he put in jail? Do you know?
Violet Esser (00:28:06):
I would say probably 1948, something like that.
Henry Green (00:28:09):
Before Israel was, uh, a state?
Violet Esser (00:28:12):
Uh, well, he wasn't in Israel. He was in, in, in-
Henry Green (00:28:14):
No, no, but Israel was, it became a state-
Violet Esser (00:28:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Henry Green (00:28:17):
... f- in 1948.
Violet Esser (00:28:17):
Yeah.
Henry Green (00:28:17):
So before-
Violet Esser (00:28:17):
Yeah.
Henry Green (00:28:18):
... before this?
Violet Esser (00:28:18):
Uh, thing, thing escalated when Israel got established. It was really, um, very hard for the Muslims to realize that they can get defeated. So the, the cowards that they are, they go after the weak. So we are, we are like at their mercy. Okay. You're there and they can hate at you. So they hate at you in any way they can. I know we sheltered a young boy. It was a friend of my brother who was being, uh, frightened to death because he was active in the Zionist movement. And he lived with us, uh, uh, you know, underground. It was dangerous for us because if they find him there, we will be, all of us will be in trouble.
Violet Esser (00:29:01):
But you have to do something for your neighbour. What are you gonna do? They went and they, my, my brother came and he said, "This friend of mine is in a lot of trouble. They are watching his house and watching his whereabouts. Can he hide in us?" So we hid him. We hid him for a few months. And I love that guy. He's, he's dead now, you know, but, but it was nice having him (laughing) around. It was a (laughs), it was kind of a, more like to have another big brother around, you know.
Henry Green (00:29:31):
Did your parents know that, were helpful also in hiding him?
Violet Esser (00:29:36):
Of course they were involved. They had to okay it. They have to okay it. But, uh, uh, yeah, um-
Henry Green (00:29:43):
Did-
Violet Esser (00:29:43):
... yeah.
Henry Green (00:29:44):
... did, was there ever Zionist meetings in the, your house?
Violet Esser (00:29:49):
No. No.
Henry Green (00:29:50):
Did you go to any yourself? You were very young.
Violet Esser (00:29:52):
No, no, no, no, no, no. We didn't get involved with that because it was too dangerous.
Henry Green (00:29:56):
But your brothers did.
Violet Esser (00:29:58):
Well, I, I, I don't know. Two of them were out of the country anyway. The doctor and I, my older brother and my older sister, three of them were out of the country at that time. They left in 1945 to, to Paris.
Henry Green (00:30:12):
So your brother, your older brother went and then you said that-
Violet Esser (00:30:15):
And my s-, my older sister, my, the first one-
Henry Green (00:30:17):
Naomi.
Violet Esser (00:30:18):
... and the, the three oldest left in 1945 for schooling in, in Paris. My, my sister went to, um, to do s-, uh, fashion, to learn about fashion. My, uh, oldest brother went to help with the, with import, export, uh, for my father. You go into different, uh, factories and different outlets to, uh, get merchandise, maybe to promote, uh, exporting them to Iraq. And my third brother, my, my, uh, the third one was, uh, was studying in the Sorbonne to become a doctor. So they not really. And I only had one brother that I remember him getting involved in our lives very much. Because I was young. Uh, was what? Maybe seven or eight years old when my older ones went, left.
Henry Green (00:31:12):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Violet Esser (00:31:13):
So this older brother, the youngest of the brothers was left behind because he was doing high school still.
Henry Green (00:31:20):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Violet Esser (00:31:21):
So eventually, when my father had to flee the country, we stayed with my mother, four girls and an 18 year old boy who was running the show because he's the male. And he was doing the shopping and doing this and doing everything and taking us everywhere. He was an 18 year old boy.
Henry Green (00:31:42):
Because [crosstalk 00:31:43]-
Violet Esser (00:31:43):
And we were there, for about two or three years, we were there. So we are the only five that went to, uh, uh, at, through Aliyah.
Henry Green (00:31:51):
So I guess you grew up fast.
Violet Esser (00:31:56):
(laughs) You have no choice.
Henry Green (00:31:58):
(laughs). So which school did you go to in, uh, Baghdad?
Violet Esser (00:32:03):
Uh, in Baghdad, uh, I went, uh, into the Alliance Israélite.
Henry Green (00:32:05):
So if you went to the Alliance Israélite, you spoke French?
Violet Esser (00:32:11):
Uh, well, and we s-, i-, I start really with French and Arabic.
Henry Green (00:32:15):
French and Arabic.
Violet Esser (00:32:16):
And Hebrew.
Henry Green (00:32:18):
And Hebrew.
Violet Esser (00:32:18):
And that's for the first, uh, five grade, four or five grade. You learn those three languages concurrently. Then I think at five or six, you drop the Hebrew because now you're a maven. You know everything about Hebrew, so you drop it and you take English. And English becomes very important. So English and French were very high on the list. But Arabic also was because we were obligated to take the, uh, universal exams from the government. Uh, to go through the primary grades, you sat the exams. I sat those. I have great six from Iraq. I wish I had the papers. I don't know.
Henry Green (00:33:03):
You took that [crosstalk 00:33:04]-
Violet Esser (00:33:04):
I guess Saddam, Saddam Hussein has them. (laughs)
Henry Green (00:33:08):
(laughs) You took the exams in Arabic?
Violet Esser (00:33:10):
Uh, uh, well, no.
Henry Green (00:33:11):
In French.
Violet Esser (00:33:11):
They had, i-, in the public system, they had also English and, uh, and Arabic.
Henry Green (00:33:15):
So you did it in English?
Violet Esser (00:33:16):
But by and large, by and large it's Arabic. You'd, you, you have to s-, to, to know your literature. You have to know your, uh, your history. You have to know a bit of geography. I remember when I was going to school, Iraq had 5 million people. I remember that. The only export they had was dates. That's my knowledge of whatever that is, history or geography or what. So that I remember. No, you take, you took your exams both in Eng-, in English. Maybe they ask you to, to write an essay or they examine you on the grammar, but everything else was studied in Arabic.
Henry Green (00:33:52):
And what about French? It sort of went to the side?
Violet Esser (00:33:55):
Uh, the, the-
Henry Green (00:33:56):
French.
Violet Esser (00:33:57):
... they, the, the, the, the government is not interested in the French.
Henry Green (00:33:59):
In French. But in Alliance Israélite.
Violet Esser (00:34:03):
Alliance, in Alliance Israélite you, you, you wrote the French exams. You wrote the French exam.
Henry Green (00:34:07):
Because, but you went to Alliance Israélite-
Violet Esser (00:34:07):
Yes, yes,
Henry Green (00:34:09):
... so you wrote the French exams.
Violet Esser (00:34:11):
Yes.
Henry Green (00:34:11):
So you spoke French.
Violet Esser (00:34:12):
Well, I d-, I don't know about speaking French, but we knew enough. I mean, I, I, we had English, but we didn't speak English, you know.
Henry Green (00:34:19):
So you didn't speak-
Violet Esser (00:34:19):
It's like this-
Henry Green (00:34:19):
... you didn't speak with your-
Violet Esser (00:34:21):
No.
Henry Green (00:34:22):
... brothers, or your, or your sisters [crosstalk 00:34:23]-
Violet Esser (00:34:23):
And they were v-, they were knowledgeable in French, but I wouldn't say they were, they were speaking. No.
Henry Green (00:34:28):
But you, you didn't speak French at home then or to-
Violet Esser (00:34:30):
No.
Henry Green (00:34:30):
... classmates-
Violet Esser (00:34:31):
No.
Henry Green (00:34:31):
... or-
Violet Esser (00:34:32):
No. No. It was-
Henry Green (00:34:32):
So you-
Violet Esser (00:34:32):
... Arabic. The, these were, were the, the, the language of the book, reading languages, you know, not spoken languages.
Henry Green (00:34:41):
And, um, so at the school, were there extracurricular activities you did?
Violet Esser (00:34:45):
Yes. We did some gym, but very minor. And if you want to swim, we wanted to swim, you had to go swim in the river.
Henry Green (00:34:52):
So you go to the Tigris and go swimming?
Violet Esser (00:34:54):
Uh, yeah. But being a girl, that was a no-no. We had to do it very early in the morning with our brothers. They had no, there was no formal education in swimming.
Henry Green (00:35:03):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Violet Esser (00:35:04):
And then we waited for the summer because the water receded, and you had, uh, clumps of, uh, sand coming up, like little islands in the river. So it was kind of safe to do it in the summer. But we, we really didn't learn swimming there. No, we didn't really.
Henry Green (00:35:20):
Did, did, um, uh, there were a few clu- Jewish clubs in Baghdad.
Violet Esser (00:35:24):
Yes.
Henry Green (00:35:25):
Were you a member of any of these clubs?
Violet Esser (00:35:26):
Uh, personally-
Henry Green (00:35:27):
Your parents?
Violet Esser (00:35:27):
... I don't. I don't.
Henry Green (00:35:28):
You don't remember.
Violet Esser (00:35:28):
I don't.
Henry Green (00:35:30):
The, the, um, so it, it basically was, you're saying, uh, you went to school, there really wasn't much extracurricular. You'd come home, do things at home, but the la-, and the language was Arabic, you know, all [crosstalk 00:35:41]-
Violet Esser (00:35:42):
Arabic. Yes. In Arabic all the way.
Henry Green (00:35:45):
Um, uh, okay. So let me, let me, um, just pick up some ... Did your brothers have a bar mitzvah?
Violet Esser (00:35:56):
Yes. But it was very small. They go to shul. I don't even remember. I was too young for that. Okay. They're much older than me. Uh, they would have a house party. That's it? Nothing, nothing fancy, no dancing, no music, no light, candle lighting, none of that stuff. It's a, a ritual. They go through it and they come home.
Henry Green (00:36:20):
Yeah.
Violet Esser (00:36:20):
Like, traditionally you eat. So you serve something nice, you know. You might have, uh, some baking that you make and some sweets, and that's it. To have a family party.
Henry Green (00:36:31):
Where your father played, go to the cafe and have a coffee and, uh [crosstalk 00:36:36]-
Violet Esser (00:36:35):
Yes. And smoke.
Henry Green (00:36:36):
... shesh besh and smoke.
Violet Esser (00:36:36):
Smoke the nagila, the nagila.
Henry Green (00:36:41):
Yeah. The nagila.
Violet Esser (00:36:41):
(laughs).
Henry Green (00:36:41):
Did your mother play, uh, cards?
Violet Esser (00:36:42):
No. She doesn't have time for that. By the time you do the laundry and you fold the clothes and you cook (laughing) for the family-
Henry Green (00:36:50):
You go to sleep.
Violet Esser (00:36:51):
... they would be, uh-, yeah-
Henry Green (00:36:51):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (00:36:51):
(laughs).
Henry Green (00:36:51):
(laughing) Yeah.
Violet Esser (00:36:52):
Then you fall asleep.
Henry Green (00:36:53):
Yeah. What about your sisters? Did they do any, uh, extra curricular [crosstalk 00:36:57]-
Violet Esser (00:36:57):
Uh, my sisters, my sisters, well, my oldest sister was taking care of our, our clothing and our needs to, uh, interviews or deciding on school, and going shopping for material. She was really running that aspect of the family, you know. She was the oldest. My mother was looking after the nourishment and she was looking after maybe (laughing) the, the outside look, the educational part. She was 18 years by the time I was, uh, born-
Henry Green (00:37:30):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Violet Esser (00:37:30):
... so she, and, and when I was ... I mean, she was really a grown up woman.
Henry Green (00:37:34):
Right. So she's the one that went on to do the fashion, you said?
Violet Esser (00:37:37):
Yes. Yes. That she went out to Paris to study fashion because hopefully she was gonna come to Iraq and maybe, uh ... You know, there was no factories for clothing, so we had to make your own clothes. So there, there was need for people that would make custom-made. Everything was custom-made. So she was either busy, uh, making drapes and bedsheets and stuff like that, because it all started from material, raw material and you did whatever you had to do with it.
Henry Green (00:38:08):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And did, did, um, um, uh, uh, in, in your family when, um, your, your, um, um, the activities, um, were there, were there no, um, organizations at all that your, uh, parents were involved in extracurricular in any kind of way?
Violet Esser (00:38:30):
No.
Henry Green (00:38:30):
Just like family life [crosstalk 00:38:30]-
Violet Esser (00:38:30):
Yes. The family life.
Henry Green (00:38:33):
... working and-
Violet Esser (00:38:33):
Yes. And eating. And occasion, occasionally we went to movies. The movies that came from Egypt. There were also sparingly, we saw some English movies from, uh, Hollywood, and we were fond of some of those old actresses. I don't remember their names. Elizabeth Taylor, I don't know. (laughing) Something like that. Uh, but there were a lot of Arabic films that came from Egypt. It was a very well-developed industry. So that was a special treat. Have an ice cream and go to the movies. And usually the brothers took us to the movies.
Henry Green (00:39:08):
And did you have any, uh, where, here now you were out in the Muslim society going to the movie-
Violet Esser (00:39:14):
Yes. Yes.
Henry Green (00:39:14):
... do, was there any fear when you did that?
Violet Esser (00:39:17):
Yes, yes, there were. There were. Uh, there was sexual harassment too. Uh, you know, I mean, it, it, it, it was ... Uh, uh, I, I know, and, and, and it's very painful, um, I know a friend was coming home and she was raped on the street against the window of her house. That was very traumatic, even to hear about that. So you, you really almost had to be escorted. Especially in the evenings, you had to be escorted. And you think the guys were any better, they'll hit him. (laughs) But at least you have, they sort of created some fear in the heart of the attackers. Whoever wanted to, you know, to play dirty.
Henry Green (00:40:02):
Was this Muslim against Jew, or was it Muslim against, uh, uh, a Muslim girl also or-
Violet Esser (00:40:07):
I have no idea what they do with their own people. But definitely they, they considered is a, a free for all, the Jew is a free for all, you know. If you want to, uh, have, uh, intercourse, grab a Jew on the street, you know. Uh, it, it, it was all right, accepted by society to do things like that.
Henry Green (00:40:26):
So-
Violet Esser (00:40:27):
It was horrible if a, a Jewish person married a ... And, and there was, there was a few, you know, and far between. But it was a terrible thing if a Jewish girl would marry a Muslim. It was a horrible thing for the family. That was the most frightening thing that ... You know, sometimes she falls in love with a, a Muslim, I don't know, on the street, in the neighbourhood. And if she ever, they would just consider them dead.
Henry Green (00:40:56):
Did, did, um, did you have other, uh, you, uh, like experiences yourself of, uh, anti-Semitism or anti-, uh, anti-Jewish?
Violet Esser (00:41:05):
Well, we knew, we knew our position. We knew we are, we, we shut up. Okay. You get insulted, you don't answer back. You get your bicycle taken away from you, you try to save it. If not, that's it, it's gone. So we knew where we stood and we didn't fight it. We accepted it because we could carry on. I mean, what choices do we have? What choices did you have? Where are you gonna go? I mean, it was very difficult to make that move to Israel because you are, whatever you know, whatever that was familiar to you, you're making a living, you're raising a kid, you're having marriages in the family and grandkids. So that's what it is. That's what it was. You took it. You took it.
Henry Green (00:41:53):
You, you had, um, Jewish friends in the neighbourhood from school?
Violet Esser (00:41:57):
Of course, of course from school. Uh, you, you know, your friends are usually from school, but I was too young for that really.
Henry Green (00:42:02):
Did they come home to you with, play with you at home? Did you go to their homes at all?
Violet Esser (00:42:08):
Uh, more, more, more, more like the family was so self-contained. It was amazing. I remember it was very lovely when all of them were home. And I remember before they left to, to Paris, that each one of them was playing an instrument. One was playing the oud, one, the older brother. The other brother was playing the violin. One was playing the drum.
Henry Green (00:42:27):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Violet Esser (00:42:28):
And we would just entertain ourselves. Every night they would sit and practice and play the music and then my father would sing. And it was very family centered sa- type of living. And the, the guys were practicing their music. They're enjoying their, their playing and we're enjoying listening to them. And, uh, since, uh, in the winter, we usually have, we would make a little bit of a bonfire in a little container, like a steel container, because there was no heat, no central heat, and, and, you know, it's cold. It gets very, very cold. So you sit in a room and you have this little, I don't know, container with some charcoal or something, and you roasted chestnut. And that was lovely.
Henry Green (00:43:11):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (00:43:11):
That was an evening to be had, to enjoy. And maybe listen to music or maybe sing a little bit, or maybe you had some homework and somebody's trying to help you. It's very self-contained. I, I, my, my brothers were very influential in our education because they knew more and they shared. Whatever they knew, they shared. Like if you need any help in school, you had a tutor right there built in.
Henry Green (00:43:36):
Did you ever listen to the radio?
Violet Esser (00:43:39):
Of course, we have a radio, we had music, you know, and-
Henry Green (00:43:42):
And, and then radio-
Violet Esser (00:43:43):
... it's, it's Arabic music, mostly Arabic music, all. And, and, and there are some very, very professional, good, Jewish professional musicians. They were in the bands and they were playing for the, uh, radio stations and they carried on when they went to Israel. And it's, it's well and alive. Even now they have parties in Israel galore. They really enjoy themselves. They love the Iraqi music, Jewish.
Henry Green (00:44:14):
How did you know that it was Jewish people who were in the band when you were listening to it in the ra-, in radio? Your parents told you or how would you know that they were-
Violet Esser (00:44:21):
They were very active and most of them were (laughing) Jewish. The bands, they were very good.
Henry Green (00:44:23):
They would know when it's, uh-
Violet Esser (00:44:27):
Yes, they would know. And they had the names and they say this guy is playing, and you know he's Jewish.
Henry Green (00:44:33):
Did, did, um, when the, uh, in '48, when the, um, Israel had the war of independence-
Violet Esser (00:44:39):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Henry Green (00:44:41):
... and, um, you, your, your father was gone already. You said-
Violet Esser (00:44:44):
Yes.
Henry Green (00:44:44):
... he escaped and [crosstalk 00:44:49]-
Violet Esser (00:44:49):
Yes, he escaped of, uh, maybe a couple of weeks.
Henry Green (00:44:49):
Through, up to Mo-, up to Mosul, up to the co- corridor and across to Iran. Do you know how he escaped at all?
Violet Esser (00:44:51):
He, he, he escaped through the north, I believe, and he went, uh, to Iran,
Henry Green (00:44:55):
To Tehran?
Violet Esser (00:44:55):
To Iran.
Henry Green (00:44:57):
To Iran, yeah.
Violet Esser (00:44:58):
And he stayed there for a little while. I don't know how much money ca- did he have on him? I have no idea. And from there, uh, there was a passage to, to Israel.
Henry Green (00:45:07):
So, so he goes to Israel?
Violet Esser (00:45:08):
Yeah. But I think he stayed in Iran maybe, um, a year, a year and a half, something like that. And then went to [crosstalk 00:45:12]-
Henry Green (00:45:12):
So maybe he goes '49, '48-
Violet Esser (00:45:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Henry Green (00:45:16):
... and he leaves '49 to Israel.
Violet Esser (00:45:16):
Yeah.
Henry Green (00:45:16):
Okay. And did you remember listening to the radio during the, um, the war, '48 war, '49 war of independence? Did they [crosstalk 00:45:24]-
Violet Esser (00:45:23):
I remember when it, w- when the United Nation, when the United said, uh, Israel ... And, and, uh, that's before the war. And I re-, uh, and I hear there's jubilation. Everybody went ... I didn't know what it was all about, but they were very, very happy. And then there's ... What, what's his name, that guy that got shot? Bern- Ber- Bernadotte? Ber- ... What's his-
Henry Green (00:45:46):
Yeah. Um, the, the British guy?
Violet Esser (00:45:49):
Yeah. Yeah. He got shot from the United Nation. Yeah. That was a sad time, but whatever. But we knew, definitely. And after the war, they came back defeated, they were very, very hostile. Very hostile.
Henry Green (00:46:05):
And how did life change for you then?
Violet Esser (00:46:08):
Yeah. They were very belligerent. They were right out. You know, it's like when you have a, a flurry of anti-Semitism here and everybody is entitled to say what that's on mind, "Kill the Jews." They did the same. It was like in the open. It wasn't, you know ... And if you were lucky, you had good neighbours that protected you, that was fun. But I, I remember being scared. They could come and barge into your house anytime they wanted under the pretence that they want to search you for ... The reason we don't have any pictures, because we tried to hide them. We dug up a hole in the floor and said, "Because if they got a hold of the album and they say, where is this guy? Show me this guy. Show me that guy. Where is this guy?"
Violet Esser (00:46:55):
And if you didn't know, uh, then he must be in, uh, in Israel. He's a Zionist. He's gone. So we took very little with us, very little stuff with us. One suitcase maybe a person, that's it. And they very, they were very anti- ... If you took some memento that was dear to you, like my mother had a set of, uh, demitasses coffee ... You know how we drink the Turkish coffee in a small amount?
Henry Green (00:47:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Violet Esser (00:47:21):
And that was a wedding present from, I don't know, from her life or ... So it was a special thing for her. So we packed them in the suitcase. And of course they searched the suitcase and they saw those demitasses, you know, four or five of them. And the way he did, he takes them out and he, boom, throw them on floor. He says, "This is gonna break my anger." I don't know how he's (laughing) gonna break his anger, but he destroyed the set that meant so much to my mother. Some people swallowed jewelry or stuffed them in the private places, a ring. That's what it was.
Henry Green (00:48:01):
Which year did you leave?
Violet Esser (00:48:02):
1950.
Henry Green (00:48:03):
Uh, so the, were you there when the synagogue was bombed?
Violet Esser (00:48:09):
I remembered what happened, but I, I, I am not fully, um, aware of the circumstances really.
Henry Green (00:48:16):
But you, you were there when ... You remember the-
Violet Esser (00:48:19):
Uh, yeah, I remember. And, and some people said Israel did that so that it will, it, is, can encourage the people, uh, you know, fighting them enough so that they can pick up and go. Because I tell you the Iraqis were not Zionistic like the rest of them. They were not. They were, they were accepted they're goral, they're luck in what, where they had. They were not ready to pack up and go. But when these f-, after the wars and the independence war and after the, the pressure and the discrimination and the persecution and the fear of being Jewish, so we just decided. When they offered this to us, of course, the, the, the, the Arabs, the Muslim, the, the government didn't think anybody's gonna respond.
Violet Esser (00:49:09):
It was thinking of very few people. They we were kind of deeply rooted in the country. But they were amazed at how many people registered within the few ... And within a year, the whole thing has gone. The whole operation was from start to finish. Only a few thousand people were left behind and they had to go through Saddam Hussein and all that. And after that, they also wanted to leave.
Henry Green (00:49:35):
Did, um, uh, when, when I think of the period of, uh, when they came back after the war of independence ... And you left in 1950, and that one year, your older brother, um, he was the, like the-
Violet Esser (00:49:47):
The family. The head of the family.
Henry Green (00:49:48):
... the family, the head of the family. So was he making the, was he, was he the one who was saying, "We have to leave." Uh-
Violet Esser (00:49:57):
No, no. It's a communal thing. It's almost like, uh, "What are we gonna do? We're gonna bring our, our siblings from Paris to Iraq? How is that gonna happen?" First of all, they threatened them. They said, "You have to either come back or we're gonna, you have to forfeit your passport." My brother, the doctor, he, uh, became, uh, stateless because he wasn't gonna come back. So he had to give up his passport. The other two went to Israel. So, um, no, it was kind of understood. My father wasn't there anymore. "What are we seeing? What are we doing here? What can (laughing) we do?" We were happy to get out and get reunited as a family again.
Henry Green (00:50:43):
Was there any contact with your father when he was in Israel and you were in Iraq?
Violet Esser (00:50:47):
Um, now, I really don't know. I really don't know. But I know for one thing, it was very tough because there was no income.
Henry Green (00:50:53):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Violet Esser (00:50:54):
My mother had jewelry from her, you know, from the time she got married, she got engaged, she had jewelry. That's what they gave, gold. And we used to sell the gold and, uh, live off of it.
Henry Green (00:51:06):
So you were saying, um, uh, jewelry that your, um-
Violet Esser (00:51:09):
Mother had.
Henry Green (00:51:10):
... your mother had and that she, uh, that, that it was being sold. Uh, so-
Violet Esser (00:51:14):
Yes.
Henry Green (00:51:14):
So if you could-
Violet Esser (00:51:15):
So that's the kind of funds we lived on.
Henry Green (00:51:18):
And, and would d-, and your brother would be the one who would sell this?
Violet Esser (00:51:22):
Yes. My mother would have said, "Okay, we've run out of money now. Here is another ring. Here is another, uh, bracelet." And, uh, there was, uh, a place like an area where all the jewellers worked. So they would weigh the gold and they gave him the price of the gold, whatever that is. And that would carry on, and paying the rent, the food. We continued on with the schooling though. We s- continued on until the last day, more or less. And thank God, I tell you that was a blessing in disguise.
Henry Green (00:51:53):
And when did you leave? What was the exact date?
Violet Esser (00:51:55):
Um, I think it was in the fall.
Henry Green (00:51:58):
In the fall of 1950?
Violet Esser (00:51:59):
1950. Definitely, 1950.
Henry Green (00:52:01):
And was it part of operation, um-
Violet Esser (00:52:02):
Yes. Yes. We were part of the, uh, the crowds that went there by the hundreds to the airport, and we were all inspected. Our luggage was inspected. We, we, we, we had no chance to take any money. We left everything behind. Whatever we had in the house, furnitures, stuff like that, you just, (laughing) just left it and went. Closed the door and went.
Henry Green (00:52:26):
You rented the house or do you own the house?
Violet Esser (00:52:27):
Uh, the, we owned the house and the furniture and everything. And, uh, and there was no buyer. There was no, nobody interested because they knew we're gonna leave. And besides, they know how many ... Uh, every third person in Baghdad was Jewish. So you have a lot of, a lot of stuff (laughing) that is Jewish. And the Muslims are smart. Why are they gonna buy? Why they're gonna have to pay you. They get it anyway. So it was very difficult too. I, I don't know how my mother sold the gold. They probably didn't get very much for it either, but you know, it tidied us over the time because there was no income.
Henry Green (00:53:05):
Did, uh, the day that you actually left, do you remember?
Violet Esser (00:53:11):
I, I remember that incident with the demitasses. That's very clear in my mind. I saw that and I, and I remember what he said and why he said it. I guess he maybe wanted to kill us, but he can't (laughing) kill us. So he killed (laughing) the, he killed the f-, the demitasse. Um, and then-
Henry Green (00:53:28):
Did neighbours-
Violet Esser (00:53:28):
... and then-
Henry Green (00:53:28):
... your neighbours go with you? Were there-
Violet Esser (00:53:31):
No. Well, uh-
Henry Green (00:53:31):
... cousins the same day?
Violet Esser (00:53:35):
... uh, I, I, I, I don't remember those details. I really don't. I know I remember that and we got shoved into the airplane, and it was very crowded. And we got to Israel and there was nothing there. Uh-
Henry Green (00:53:45):
Just let's go back though. Do, when you were on the plane, were where their seats or did you sit on the floor? Do you remember that?
Violet Esser (00:53:51):
I don't remember having seats or seat buckles or anything like that. Probably sat on the floor. It was a mayhem. And we are the, uh, we also had to stop in Cyprus. We were the people that stopped in Cyprus and got fumigated with this DDT or something because they thought we are full of lice. See, how much they, little they knew about the Iraqi community. It was sad. And then from there, we went to Shaar Haaliya. And, uh, we got sorted out and we, uh, lucked out and we, uh ... I don't know how we met my father. And then we became a family sort of.
Henry Green (00:54:30):
Where w- did you go? What, what, uh-
Violet Esser (00:54:33):
Shaar Haaliya. We went to-
Henry Green (00:54:33):
Shaar Haaliya. Okay.
Violet Esser (00:54:34):
Yeah, Shaar Haaliya. And, uh, we had a, a tent. We lived in a tent. They, they issued us some beds, but I don't remember how many. You must have had more than one tent because the tents are so small. They only take two beds or something. Uh, and then we had a soup, a soup kitchen and everything, all the facilities are outside. Okay. Shower, bathroom, what have you, it's all communal. And-
Henry Green (00:55:05):
How long you were there for?
Violet Esser (00:55:07):
We were some months, some months under those. And then when it rained, it was all muddy and cold, cold. There's no heat anywhere, no hot water anywhere. But it didn't last very long. Uh, eventually we got into a Ma'abara.
Henry Green (00:55:28):
You went from there to the Ma'abara?
Violet Esser (00:55:32):
To the Ma'abara. And the Ma'abara we, uh, it was a very sophisticated Ma'abara. Uh, my sister got the inn because they came in from France and she got the, the hut. And we all piled up on, in the hut, that little hut. It's very small. Not, not, smaller than the size of this area here. Smaller, much smaller.
Henry Green (00:55:58):
Much smaller.
Violet Esser (00:55:59):
Much smaller. And here we are, a family and my grandmother with us, a big fa-
Henry Green (00:56:04):
Facilities still outside. You know, I mean, the bathroom-
Violet Esser (00:56:06):
Uh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Still outside, and the shower's outside. And it was so small that we had to, you know ... You remember those places that you see on the TV with the, (laughing) with the Mexicans? We had to build a little something beside the hat so that ... I mean, you, you had my, my parents, you had my grandmother, you got I don't know how many generations all mixed up together. How do they (laughing) sleep? I don't know. We had to make it. So we built a little addition by hand. Just hammered a few pieces of, uh, uh, sh-, sh-, uh, sidings or what have you and we built another little, little room for my parents and, uh, and my, uh, grandmother. And then we all piled up in the same space.
Henry Green (00:56:56):
What did you do during the day with your time?
Violet Esser (00:56:59):
Well, eventually everybody had to go out to find some work and we did work. We all did work. And, uh, the, the government decided we're gonna develop the south. And you know who's gonna develop it? All these educated people that don't know anything about agriculture. They give us a s-, a piece of land in, uh, um, [inaudible 00:57:27], uh, moshav. I will maybe remember.
Henry Green (00:57:35):
Where was it located?
Violet Esser (00:57:35):
In, in-
Henry Green (00:57:36):
[inaudible 00:57:36]. Where was, where was it located?
Violet Esser (00:57:36):
... in, near Rehovot.
Henry Green (00:57:36):
Near Rehovot. Okay.
Violet Esser (00:57:36):
Near Rehovot.
Henry Green (00:57:36):
Near Rehovot.
Violet Esser (00:57:36):
In the south.
Henry Green (00:57:38):
In the south, yeah.
Violet Esser (00:57:38):
And they gave us a plot of land, which is part of ... You know what a moshav is? Is a about uh-
Henry Green (00:57:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, co-operative land.
Violet Esser (00:57:47):
Uh, uh, yeah. As a family, they, they own a c-, the common ground and each family has a little plot. And we s-, we, uh, they gave us a cow. Are we supposed ... (laughs) And had 10 chickens or something. And we are a far- farmers now. We are farmers. So definitely (laughs) ... Uh, it's funny now, but at the time it was hard. It was hard. At the time my, my, my brothers, um, went to work. They were, uh ... Now, you know, the guy that was in, doing commerce, he became a builder. Like a, a brick layer or something. He was making bricks. You know how they make the bricks in a, in a mold?
Violet Esser (00:58:28):
He was making the bricks, he was coming with some money and we were eating. And now at least we're eating on our own. And of course we produced such a great, uh, uh, (laughs) massive amount of agriculture. We, we planted peanuts and we ate them all. (laughs) The cow, we drank all the milk. What kind an export is that? (laughs) Anyway, we had an idea that, uh, we're gonna, my brother is gonna buy a machine and we gonna produce chicken from eggs. We're gonna grow up a business like that. And it didn't work. And it sucked up all our savings. But eventually, we, we, we really worked it out. I worked in agriculture then, and I was even a, a shepherd.
Violet Esser (00:59:20):
Yes. I was promoted to a shepherd. I had about 15, 20 sheeps that I was minding every day. But that was so dangerous because I was going through areas all by myself and I'm a girl. At that time, I was 13, 14 years old and I am by myself. I don't know. It's insane. How we did it, I have no idea. I wouldn't dare do that now. It's very insane. Very insane. But you have to do the [inaudible 00:59:47]. And, and I, of all the things I did, I picked up those, um, Sabra. Have you ever touched one of them from the tree?
Henry Green (00:59:56):
It's like prickly cactus.
Violet Esser (00:59:58):
Uh-huh (affirmative), yes.
Henry Green (00:59:58):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (01:00:00):
I still have a nightmare because I would come home and I have tweezers and I would go all over my body picking out all these damn things. And I was, and then the one that left behind, they became kind of irritated and inflamed and maybe eventually this, this damn thing got expelled. It's, uh, tough. That's Is-, that's Israel. But I have no qualms because it was a very young country, just out of a war, 650,000, absorbing people by the hundreds of thousand, no experience in how to do it. But they did a wonderful job at the end, you know. They did, they did, they tried their best and, and, and, and I'm very happy to be out of that hell hole.
Henry Green (01:00:46):
What, what language did you speak when you were with ... You spoke, uh, Arabic? Where did you learn Hebrew?
Violet Esser (01:00:50):
Yeah, we had to pick up Hebrew. We had to puck up Hebrew. In no time you picked up Hebrew, believe me. In no time. I never went to school there, so my Hebrew is off the street. I, uh, never studied grammar or anything like that. And like I said, I, I, it was too expensive to go to a university or, or to high school because Gimnasia at that time was not public.
Henry Green (01:01:12):
Yeah. Not public. Yeah.
Violet Esser (01:01:14):
Not funded by the government. And it was like a luxury and only the rich Ashkenazi could send their kids there. And so I, uh, we, we, we, we have decided that ... But my other brothers have finished school already. My sister, my oldest sister, she had to go out to work to support the family. And so I worked for some of the time, but then I was, I was studying as well. So I got my high school and then-
Henry Green (01:01:42):
Correspondence high school or-
Violet Esser (01:01:45):
Correspondence, you know but-
Henry Green (01:01:45):
In what language?
Violet Esser (01:01:45):
Uh, English. It was from the University of London. And I would write my exams at the consulate in Tel Aviv.
Henry Green (01:01:53):
How did you study, through the mail? How did you do this?
Violet Esser (01:01:57):
Uh, it was very, and it was, it was, they gave you a book, they gave you the program. They gave you the program and you had to find whoever was gonna tutor you. And my brother was there to tutor me. And I took mostly sciences, so ... And, uh, I, uh, I didn't take the English language. And when I came here, I had to pay the price. I had to go back to grade 13 to get my English here. I went, I came here in October. I don't know whether you remember grade 13. It was very difficult in those days. What, you're, you're from Ottawa?
Henry Green (01:02:24):
Yeah.
Violet Esser (01:02:25):
Did you have grade 13 too?
Henry Green (01:02:26):
Yeah. I had the sa-, I had the same as you.
Violet Esser (01:02:28):
Yes. Okay. I came into grade 13. I was already in, I was already in October. I was missed, uh, the beginning of the school. And I realized there's no university this year because they don't have any English in my, uh, subjects. I had, uh, ca-, calculus, I had, uh, g- geometry, I had, uh, what, whatever. I had a couple of, uh, sciences, but I didn't have English. And the university wanted English. So I had, uh, after all the discussion and argument, by the end of October, I had to register into a high school. So I went to Jarvis Collegiate. That's where my brother was working there. He was the doctor. He was the one that sponsored me.
Violet Esser (01:03:11):
So I went there late in the year and I crammed so crazy, you know, and thank to the [inaudible 01:03:20], uh ... You remember those, uh ... Uh, and I had to know Shakespeare. Who is Shakespeare? But I have to know (laughing) Shakespeare. And I passed and I got, uh, a half decent, uh ... I think my average was about 78, which was acceptable then for the university. And I got into the university.
Henry Green (01:03:38):
So let's go back to Israel.
Violet Esser (01:03:39):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Henry Green (01:03:40):
Okay. So you're a shepherd, you're doing correspondence, you go to the consulate-
Violet Esser (01:03:45):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Henry Green (01:03:45):
... you, uh, get your exams. Which would be-
Violet Esser (01:03:48):
Yes, yes.
Henry Green (01:03:48):
... like what, A levels, O levels or-
Violet Esser (01:03:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Henry Green (01:03:51):
... whatever. And did you, uh ... So you're born in '37. You're in Israel. You come at, uh, 1950, you're 13 years old. Do you go to the Israeli army?
Violet Esser (01:04:02):
Yes.
Henry Green (01:04:03):
When did you go to the army?
Violet Esser (01:04:04):
I finished in '57 and I immediately came here.
Henry Green (01:04:07):
So when you were in-
Violet Esser (01:04:08):
'55.
Henry Green (01:04:09):
So when you went to the army, you went what, '55, '50-
Violet Esser (01:04:11):
'5O ... Well, I was 18, right?
Henry Green (01:04:14):
18.
Violet Esser (01:04:15):
Yeah.
Henry Green (01:04:15):
So you were 18 in ... '37, '55. '55.
Violet Esser (01:04:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Henry Green (01:04:20):
So did you, were you involved in the Suez war in 1956?
Violet Esser (01:04:22):
Yes.
Henry Green (01:04:23):
What-
Violet Esser (01:04:23):
Yes.
Henry Green (01:04:24):
... did you, what did you do?
Violet Esser (01:04:27):
Well, the girls over there in those days they were really office girls. All, uh, the, the, the female soldiers were by and large, uh, either kitchen duties, you know, so like household type of thing and office work. They were not in combat. So I was in, uh, [inaudible 01:04:46]. I was in, um ... There is a base in there. It's funny because I went back and I did Sar-El and I, and they put me in my base where I served. It was an amazing experience. I was like, "This was my base 50 years ago." (laughs) Anyway, they put me, uh, and, and I was in the base there and I was in [inaudible 01:05:09].
Violet Esser (01:05:10):
Which is the ammunition, which is the, uh ... What do they call it? The, uh, ammunition and they take care of the bullets and the, and the revolvers and all that stuff. But our division was taking care of, uh, [inaudible 01:05:25], which is, uh, the cars. Okay.
Henry Green (01:05:27):
The cars. Yeah.
Violet Esser (01:05:28):
In those days, they didn't have enough cars in the army. So the civilians cars were like, uh, sherut. They were in, they were called in when there is a need of extra, uh, vehicles.
Henry Green (01:05:40):
It was like a taxi service, the service [crosstalk 01:05:42]-
Violet Esser (01:05:41):
Yes. So, so we kept record of that. So I was working in an office there basically.
Henry Green (01:05:46):
Then you would go home at night then?
Violet Esser (01:05:48):
Yes. There was no-
Henry Green (01:05:49):
So, so [crosstalk 01:05:49]-
Violet Esser (01:05:51):
... sleepover. There was no [crosstalk 01:05:51]-
Henry Green (01:05:51):
So you, you didn't go down to, uh, any of the, uh, fronts? So ...
Violet Esser (01:05:54):
Uh, uh, no. The fight, uh, we were there. We, we knew that it was terrible. We, we, we worked overtime because we had to enlist all these cars that are, were needed by the army. And then when the f-, and when the fight was finished, we had to return the, the cars again. So, and there was no computers or anything. It was all done by hand. So, but at the end, they took us down there as a, ju- just to, uh, see. And it's devastating. War is no fun. Anyway, I went in as, in Gaza there and we saw the people with their, with their books thrown all over the place, their clothes scattered all over.
Violet Esser (01:06:29):
I mean, they ran away to, you know. It's no fun for anybody. It was heartbreak, but, you know, being a, being young, you really don't have the impact as much as you look at it back now and see, well, the devastating is really touches everyone. Whether you win the war, whether you lose the war, you have to bury your dead. You have the dislocation that happens for people when they have to leave in a rush, in a hurry.
Henry Green (01:07:01):
So, so why did you leave Israel?
Violet Esser (01:07:02):
Well, my only reason was for education really, that's primarily what it is. And, and, and, and better, better economic opportunity. That'' what it was. There, I was leaning to go into dentistry. At the time, there was no school of dentistry in Israel. There was no school. So, and my brother was able to sponsor me financially. So I was the first one to move over.
Henry Green (01:07:31):
Your, your brother was already here in Canada?
Violet Esser (01:07:33):
Yes. He never, never, uh, uh, never went to Israel.
Henry Green (01:07:36):
So he went from Paris to Canada?
Violet Esser (01:07:38):
Well, he went to the States, and from the States, he came to Canada.
Henry Green (01:07:41):
To Canada.
Violet Esser (01:07:42):
Yeah. But he-
Henry Green (01:07:42):
And so he comes to Toronto and then you come here, he sponsors you?
Violet Esser (01:07:45):
Yes, yes.
Henry Green (01:07:47):
And then you, um, go to Jarvis, you get your degree and you go to where?
Violet Esser (01:07:52):
U of T.
Henry Green (01:07:54):
U of T. And you go to dental school?
Violet Esser (01:07:55):
Dental school.
Henry Green (01:07:56):
And, uh, you go in what, 1958 or so, or ...
Violet Esser (01:07:59):
No. 19- ... Uh, uh, I got here in '57. I don't know. Figure it backwards. I graduated in '64.
Henry Green (01:08:06):
So you graduate '64. Okay. From dental school.
Violet Esser (01:08:09):
Yeah.
Henry Green (01:08:09):
And then you become a dentist.
Violet Esser (01:08:11):
Yes.
Henry Green (01:08:11):
And, and, uh, do you marry?
Violet Esser (01:08:14):
That's another story. Uh-
Henry Green (01:08:19):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (01:08:19):
(laughs). Yes, yes. And it, it's an amazing story. Um, my, my, my brother is a doctor. And in those days, they, they had those, uh, I, I, I'm sure today the same thing, the pharmaceuticals and they're promoting their drugs. So they have, uh, salespeople, pharmacists. They go around and they, uh, try to mo-, promote their new drugs and sell them to the doctors. So he met one of those salespeople. He was a Jewish boy that came from England. And his name is Solomon. And he is rotating among the doctors. He goes to my brother. He goes to my future husband, and he tells him, "I've got a nice girl." He, he, he kind of already knows my family there and then he comes and he tells him, "I've got a nice girl I wanna fix you up with."
Violet Esser (01:09:09):
So he gives him my number. My husband to be forgets about it. He's busy working. He's establishing his own practice. Then he comes back again another round of selling drugs and he says, "Why didn't you call this girl?" And he says, "Okay, okay, okay, I'll call her." So he called me and we had the first date, and we never stopped seeing me. Night after night. I got tired. I need to go to school. I need to study. So finally, we, we, uh, uh, well, we fell in love. I fell in love also the first night. I say, "He's a handsome boy. He's nice. He's a doctor. He's young. I am gonna be a dentist." I was in second year, second year. So and that was, that was, uh, in the spring of that year.
Violet Esser (01:09:59):
And I had a commitment to go to a camp, summer camp, Camp Ogama, uh, as a, as a senior counsellor. So I can, I couldn't get out of that, so he used to come and drive three hours to, uh, uh, to, north to Musko-, the Muskokas. And in the same day, he come back. And we were seeing each other a lot. By the end of the summer, it was decided that we're gonna get married. And we got married during the Christmas break of that year, 1960. So I came in '57. By the time I got my degree, my high school degree, '58. And I got a couple of years under my belt, I got married. And then, and then we had a child.
Henry Green (01:10:48):
So you're in dental school and now you have a child?
Violet Esser (01:10:50):
I am ... Yeah. And we had a child. And he was adopted by, by schoolmates (laughs) because Irvin used to come home on Friday. He takes the baby down. He takes him to the school. He was walking around, uh, as a two year old. He would pick me up and we'd go to his parents for supper for Friday night dinner. These were very nice times. Very nice time. So when I was pregnant, uh, and I had the baby, I had this first one, that's David, the oldest, the 5th of November. You couldn't take time off. One week was enough because in th- those days, they let you stay in the hospital until the circumcision. Yeah.
Violet Esser (01:11:31):
Nowadays, uh, so I stayed, and once circumcision was done, I was out, (laughs), out back to school. And, uh, my mother-in-law said ... Well, we ... First of all, we worked it out with my mother-in-law and we, we, that ... Now, she really wanted to have a grandson, a grandchild. So she said, "Go ahead and have a baby. I'll look after the baby." So she gave us the green light. And I, I thank her for that. She was a wonderful woman.
Henry Green (01:11:57):
And do you have other children?
Violet Esser (01:12:00):
Yes. I got pregnant with my second one, and I graduated with a baby. The second one. (laughs)
Henry Green (01:12:09):
And the-
Violet Esser (01:12:09):
So I was-
Henry Green (01:12:10):
... the name of the second one is?
Violet Esser (01:12:12):
Is Marvin.
Henry Green (01:12:13):
Marvin.
Violet Esser (01:12:13):
And he's in Israel now. And then I, right away when he was a baby, again, one of the grandmothers looked after him. They said, they volunteered to look after them. So they would come all week, stay with the baby. And then once Friday came, I was in charge until Monday morning or Sunday night. Uh, we would pick them up and then they come and stay with us for the week. And that's how I, uh, managed to, uh, to look after the one child while I was in school. The second one was no problem already because I was just graduating. And it was, I was, he was, uh ... You know, when you graduate, he was born in July, you graduate in May, June. And then in July he was born.
Henry Green (01:12:59):
So Irving's a doctor. You're a dentist.
Violet Esser (01:13:01):
Yes.
Henry Green (01:13:01):
And do you have any more children?
Violet Esser (01:13:03):
I have two more.
Henry Green (01:13:04):
Two more. What are their names?
Violet Esser (01:13:06):
Alan and Tammy.
Henry Green (01:13:07):
Tammy. And so the, the fi-, David's the first one?
Violet Esser (01:13:09):
Yes.
Henry Green (01:13:10):
And he lives where? In which-
Violet Esser (01:13:11):
In Toronto.
Henry Green (01:13:12):
In Toronto. And the second one, Marvin lives in Israel?
Violet Esser (01:13:15):
That's right.
Henry Green (01:13:15):
And the third one?
Violet Esser (01:13:16):
In Toronto. They take turn. (laughs).
Henry Green (01:13:18):
And the fourth one?
Violet Esser (01:13:19):
In Israel.
Henry Green (01:13:20):
So, and are you a grandmother now?
Violet Esser (01:13:22):
I am gonna be a great ma- grandmother.
Henry Green (01:13:25):
(laughs).
Violet Esser (01:13:27):
As a matter of fact, I'm waiting for that phone. (laughs) She's ready to [inaudible 01:13:32].
Henry Green (01:13:32):
And how many grandchildren do you have?
Violet Esser (01:13:35):
I have 13.
Henry Green (01:13:36):
13. And some live in Israel and some live here?
Violet Esser (01:13:40):
Six here and seven there.
Henry Green (01:13:42):
And do you go back and forth to Israel?
Violet Esser (01:13:44):
A lot, a lot. I'm going next week and I'm gonna stay for two weddings. Two of my grandchildren are getting married.
Henry Green (01:13:52):
[Jewish 01:13:52].
Violet Esser (01:13:53):
Thank you.
Henry Green (01:13:54):
And have you ever gone back to Iraq?
Violet Esser (01:13:57):
Impossible. I would never, never, never think of it because, uh, I don't have fun memories. We left behind a lot of, uh, heartaches, you know. And, uh, it's hard on a child. I mean, that was, uh, it, it, it's, it's difficult time.
Henry Green (01:14:24):
Did, um-
Violet Esser (01:14:25):
You remember the abuse. I mean, it's, uh, psychological sometimes, it's physical sometimes, it's monetary sometimes. You know, they come and they trump up charges and then you have to come up and, and raise a bribe to, to, to, to, to save your life, you know. It, it, it, and you see what happens around you with your friends, like this friend that had to come seek shelter in my house. I mean, these are not nice memories.
Henry Green (01:14:51):
So let me, uh, ask some final questions.
Violet Esser (01:14:52):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Henry Green (01:14:54):
Um, how do you preserve your Sephardi heritage?
Violet Esser (01:14:56):
Uh, it's very hard. It's only within me, within my soul. I enjoy it when I go to Israel, I enjoy when I'm here. Uh, my identity splits in so many ways. I, I married an Ashkenazi, the family's Ashkenazi, but I'm not an Ashkenazi. I find I cannot really feel at home. I, I go to the Iraqi community and they are too Iraqi for me. So I am by myself and I am, sometimes it's lonesome because you don't have a strong identity where you say ... I envy those people who went to school who have friends that they went to kindergarten with. That never happened to me. I don't know where all those friends got scattered.
Violet Esser (01:15:46):
Every time we make a little nucleus of good friends ... Like I was in the army, I had wonderful soldiers, army girls, and we were very close. And then I left, and then that disintegrated. You come in here and you start all over again. And you don't have that soul language, the soul language, you know. I don't. My, my sisters-in-law are all Ashkenazi and they are Canadian. They're born here. But for some reason, we don't have that, that bond that you have if you grew up with those kids in your early years. So that's, that's the sad story, the sad part of it. But I'm a very happy person. I am grateful for what I have.
Violet Esser (01:16:33):
I am thrilled about having the opportunity to really do it on my own, do it my way. And I had a very wonderful, supportive family on both sides. My husband was a great, great partner, and he supported me. Because, uh, after all, I got married in second year. He sponsored me for the rest of the time, we set up a practice. He was very encouraging. He was, uh, he was working very hard to build up, uh, because he came from a very hardworking family. They didn't, you know ... Uh, he, his parents are, uh, survivors, uh, type of thing, but they came before the war. So they didn't. But they lost a lot of their families back there.
Violet Esser (01:17:15):
So he, uh, he believed in hard work. He believed he had to s-, to, to, to build up his own equities and ma- make a comfortable living for us and the family. And, uh, I am very grateful for everything I have.
Henry Green (01:17:30):
Do you consider yourself a refugee?
Violet Esser (01:17:34):
I, uh, uh, uh, uh, I, I, I never dwelt on that. I, we're always looking forward to move on. And this is like a revival for me now, what you're doing, because I sort of filed it away, you know. It's gone. It's gone. Whatever happened, we lost it. So what? We built again, you know. We lost it. We built again. I think this is the mentality that will keep you going and will, it's a positive mentality, it's a positive attitude. And, and you don't get stuck. If I consider myself refugee, I'm sorry, we lost so much, but I'm happy also we gained other things. Would I have been in Canada if I stayed in Iraq? I doubt it?
Violet Esser (01:18:19):
Would I have been as liberated and as a, as a free thinker or as, as, uh, uh, would I have had the opportunity to become a dentist? Maybe not. I was very happy as a practitioner. I find it very interesting, very exciting, very stimulating. Uh, I had a bunch of patients that are almost like family. I, I treated people through generations, them, their kids, their parents, you know. So it was a very rewarding experience. Would I have had it if I didn't go through this? Maybe yes, maybe no.
Henry Green (01:18:53):
So two more questions. The first is, your children.
Violet Esser (01:18:57):
Yes.
Henry Green (01:18:57):
What is their identity?
Violet Esser (01:19:00):
I think they're basically, basically Canadian, basically Canadian. But you can see that, uh, two of them opted out to go where I came from. They loved Israel. They love the language. They love the homeland, and they're more observant. They're Orthodox, both of them. So they find their own identity. The ones that are here, they sort of belong to the conservative movement, but they're more secular than, than I would have hoped for. They sent their kids to Jewish schools. The three of them went to Bialik, one of the kids. And the other ones went to Heschel, the three of them. So they did invest in the Jewish education, but whether that will get a, get them through the hump in choosing their mates, I pray and I hope they stay within the fold.
Henry Green (01:19:53):
So one last question. Um, what message would you like to give to, um, anyone who might listen to your interview? What message [inaudible 01:20:02] when they listen to this?
Violet Esser (01:20:05):
I like, I'd like for this to be educational, first and foremost. Because we are part of the Jewish mosaic. And for, for too long, it has been swept under the carpet. Iraqi Jewry was very highly educated, very motivated, contributed a lot, as we know, in the old, uh, you know, ancestral time to the, uh, welfare of, uh, of the, of the religion, of the heritage, of the culture. And I am very upset that all the Jews from Islamic, uh, countries got lumped into one thing. They look at an Iraqi, they look at a Yemenite, they look at a somebody from Seiyara, "They're all the same kind of Jews." They didn't take, uh, you know, you know, Israel didn't have respect for the different backgrounds of the different communities.
Violet Esser (01:21:01):
Each community had its own beautiful parts and not so beautiful part. So by being lumped together, that was very detrimental in growing, psychologically growing, you know, maturing. So that's, that's the part. And also, I think from a political point of view, Israel lost an awful lot. We are in number, equal in number to the refugees that left Palestine of the old, and we are the ones that are replacing them. And we know that in the tradition of warfare, refugees get created. And they have one choice, either get absorbed or returned or do something, but they don't stay refugees forever. Look at us. We're not refugees. I'm not a refugee today. I have a home, I have this, I have that, I have a family because we moved on. We didn't get stuck. And getting stuck is the worst thing.
Violet Esser (01:21:56):
And that's a criminal thing what they do to the Palestinian. They got them stuck because they use them as pawns. So, the Arab use them as pawns. Yeah, they are my brothers, they're my brothers. They wouldn't let them give ... They came to I-, to Iraq. I remember Palestinian coming to Iraq. They were segregated. They were just as bad as the Jews. They were treated so poorly, so badly. And, and, and, you know, that's a, that's a human crime, a human crime. So if, if something will, will get out of this is, that Israel could use this in the international forum to say, "Compensate. Okay, we'll compensate, but you have to compensate too. You have keys for houses. We have also keys for houses."
Violet Esser (01:22:46):
Where are they gone, those keys for houses? The way, the Palestinian wants to take Israel. They wanna take, uh, uh, Tel Aviv. They wanna take Haifa. They wanna take everything. Okay. What about us? How do we get compensated? And I hope, I hope that they could use that, uh, as, uh, really something as an important message to the world. That we had refugees equally in number to the Palestinians. And they are not the only refugees. But we moved on and they didn't.
Henry Green (01:23:22):
Thank you so much-
Violet Esser (01:23:24):
Okay.
Henry Green (01:23:24):
... for the interview.
Violet Esser (01:23:24):
And thank you.
Henry Green (01:23:26):
[crosstalk 01:23:26]-
Violet Esser (01:23:26):
Thank you so much for taking the time to bring it to the fore that everybody know it's part of history and it should be recorded. And I feel that it was, we should have been advocating for ourselves to do that. But like I said, when you are so distressed and so busy trying to put your life together again, you don't really have time to dwell on the past. You want to, eager to see what tomorrow's gonna bring. And our energy was focused on the future, not on the past. So if you are dedicated yourself to this, it's as remarkably appreciated, it's wonderful. And being of an Ashkenazi ancestry, that's even much more commendable. Bravo.
Henry Green (01:24:12):
(laughs) [inaudible 01:24:13].