Valentine Balass
Cleaned by: Julia Pappo
Transcribed by: Rev
Interview date: April 17th, 2014
Interviewer: Lisette Shashoua
Location: Montreal
Total time: 2:24:35
Valentine Balass: Born in Baghdad, Iraq. Arrived in Iran in 1970. Arrived in Israel in September 1970. Arrived in Montreal in December 1970.
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:00):
What is your full name?
Valentine Balass (00:00:02):
Valentine Balass [Risiorvoi Sidat 00:00:04].
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:05):
What was your name at birth?
Valentine Balass (00:00:08):
Valentine [Fetal 00:00:09].
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:11):
And uh, where were you born?
Valentine Balass (00:00:13):
Baghdad, Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:16):
Thank you for participating in uh, Sephardi Voices. And uh-
Valentine Balass (00:00:20):
My pleasure.
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:22):
Thank you. Um, can you tell us something about your grandparents?
Valentine Balass (00:00:29):
My grandparents. What do you want me to tell you about my grandparents? I...
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:36):
Any memories you have. Like the childhood.
Valentine Balass (00:00:38):
I have very fond memories. I uh... My paternal grandfather and grandmother were alive but my maternal grandmother was uh, before I was born. And uh, my father used to insist that we goes... that we go to my grandparents' house every single day practically. Only when we have school, then, it's on the weekend. The weekend in Iraq is just Shabbat.
Lisette Shashoua (00:01:17):
Mm-hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:01:18):
And uh, we used to go there and we were very respectful of them. And the whole family used to gather, my uncles, my cousins. We enjoyed it a lot.
Lisette Shashoua (00:01:33):
And your paternal, uh, grandparents' names?
Valentine Balass (00:01:38):
Uh, Joseph Fetal, and, uh, Rajala is his wife.
Lisette Shashoua (00:01:44):
Her first name?
Valentine Balass (00:01:46):
Her first name. Uh, she is, she's uh, [Zaleshina 00:01:51]
Lisette Shashoua (00:01:51):
Uh-huh. She's...
Valentine Balass (00:01:52):
And my maternal grandmother's name was [Tefaha Juri 00:01:57]. And my grandfather, uh, his name was [Ezra Nisan 00:02:05].
Lisette Shashoua (00:02:07):
And uh, where were they born?
Valentine Balass (00:02:11):
Everyone was born in Baghdad, Baghdad, Iraq, for generations.
Lisette Shashoua (00:02:18):
Thank you. Um, do you have any like uh, a story, an anecdote about your grandparents that you remember that was special to you?
Valentine Balass (00:02:34):
Nothing, uh, special that I can remember but I, I, I do know we enjoyed going there. We used to, uh, play around, uh, uh, all of us kids, cousins, we gathered there. We enjoyed them. And uh, that was it. I mean, I, I don't remember anything specific, except I remember when my grandmother passed away, I, I was there. And they wanted to get me out of the room but I wouldn't. I stayed there. And I still remember.
Lisette Shashoua (00:03:15):
How old were you when this happened?
Valentine Balass (00:03:18):
I was about uh, 17. 17. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:03:26):
So, so you did, uh, you, you, you did things them like did you go for walks, did you go for drives, did you, did you so special? Oth, other than going to their house?
Valentine Balass (00:03:38):
No, we did go... You know, in Iraq, they didn't go for drives and for uh, the... that wa... you're talking about the old days. Uh, they don't go out. You stay there, you play, it's a huge house and uh, you have room to play around and to enjoy.
Lisette Shashoua (00:03:57):
Mm-hmm. Okay. Your grandparents, you were saying, the other side.
Valentine Balass (00:04:01):
Oh, from ma... my maternal grandfather? Uh, don't forget, my aunts were young.
Lisette Shashoua (00:04:08):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (00:04:09):
I mean, uh, they were closer in age to me than my paternal ones, so I used to enjoy going there but mostly, they used to come to us. Because my mother was like their mother. Even though her mother died when she was, uh, 19 years old, and she felt responsible for them. So, my aunts, my uncles used to come and play with us. Uh, they were young. And uh, we were very close. We went out together. I mean, uh, th... they were, they were in our house almost every day.
Lisette Shashoua (00:04:56):
Mm-hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:04:57):
So, I didn't need to go there because they were coming us. But uh, I used to have more fun with them than the other side because the other side, they are much older than me but uh, my grandmother, uh, she really adored me. I was the only girl and uh, I wa... Uh, my other cousins didn't live in Baghdad, they left. So, I was the only girl that was there and uh, she loved it when I stayed with her every... But I, I didn't like to stay there because the other side is younger.
Lisette Shashoua (00:05:43):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:05:43):
More close.
Lisette Shashoua (00:05:45):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (00:05:47):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:05:47):
More fun.
Valentine Balass (00:05:49):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:05:50):
Uh, now, tell me about your parents. Uh, how did they meet, how did they get married.
Valentine Balass (00:05:56):
In those days, you get married uh, by arranged marriages. Um, my mother was a beautiful woman. Uh, she was uh, a blonde and uh, and my aunt, my father's sister, uh, saw her, and uh, and that's how it started. Then, they sent for her hand.
Lisette Shashoua (00:06:28):
Mm-hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:06:28):
And they got married.
Lisette Shashoua (00:06:31):
Who is your father's sister?
Valentine Balass (00:06:34):
Who is?
Lisette Shashoua (00:06:35):
Your aunt. Yeah.
Valentine Balass (00:06:36):
My aunt uh, Jahla, Jahla Fetal.
Lisette Shashoua (00:06:39):
Mm-hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:06:39):
And uh, she, she basically, she arranged for my father to see her. Um, uh, I don't know, it's uh, they were, they were walking on the river side with her, uh, cousins and uh, she showed him to her. It so happened, I mean, it wasn't arranged, because I don't think they would have allowed it. Her parents would have never allowed it. And uh-
Lisette Shashoua (00:07:16):
You mean uh, allowed an arranged marriage?
Valentine Balass (00:07:17):
They would not have allowed to have someone uh, see her.
Lisette Shashoua (00:07:22):
A-ha.
Valentine Balass (00:07:23):
Yeah. But uh, they were walking like uh, young girls with her cousins and uh, that was the first time he saw my mother.
Lisette Shashoua (00:07:34):
And your mother's name is?
Valentine Balass (00:07:36):
Josephine Nisan.
Lisette Shashoua (00:07:39):
And your dad's name?
Valentine Balass (00:07:41):
Jacob Fetal.
Lisette Shashoua (00:07:50):
Jacob Fetal. When, when was your mom born?
Valentine Balass (00:07:54):
Ma... I don't remember.
Lisette Shashoua (00:07:55):
Okay. And uh [inaudible 00:08:03]?
Lisette Shashoua (00:08:03):
Would she have married him if she-
Lisette Shashoua (00:08:03):
Ah, how old was she when she got married?
Valentine Balass (00:08:06):
She was 18.
Lisette Shashoua (00:08:09):
That's a good age.
Valentine Balass (00:08:10):
18 when she got married, yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:08:12):
Okay. And your dad's name Jacob...
Valentine Balass (00:08:16):
Ja... His name?
Lisette Shashoua (00:08:18):
Yeah, your dad's name.
Valentine Balass (00:08:20):
Jacob Fetal.
Lisette Shashoua (00:08:21):
Yes. Thank you. How old was he when he got married?
Valentine Balass (00:08:28):
I think he was about 30 years old.
Lisette Shashoua (00:08:37):
And what, what did your dad do?
Valentine Balass (00:08:40):
My father was a merchant. Actually, he went to India, and uh, he made uh, business which was very prosperous. And uh, of course, his brothers joined him, and uh, one of my other uncles went to stay in India while he came to Iraq and he got married and he had kids.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:10):
That's your uncle?
Valentine Balass (00:09:11):
My uncle went to India.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:13):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (00:09:14):
Wh... with his family.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:17):
And his name was?
Valentine Balass (00:09:18):
And my father got married and stayed in Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:21):
Ahh, okay. And, and your uncle's name was?
Valentine Balass (00:09:25):
What?
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:25):
Uh, your uncle's name was?
Valentine Balass (00:09:27):
Ezra Fetal.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:30):
Ezra Fetal. Uh, okay, what kind of business was he doing, uh, in India?
Valentine Balass (00:09:34):
Textile.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:35):
And your mom, what did she do?
Valentine Balass (00:09:41):
She was a housewife. No, the women never worked in Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:45):
Import textile...
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:54):
Uh, import-export textile, was that what they did?
Valentine Balass (00:09:58):
Import.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:59):
Import, to Iraq?
Valentine Balass (00:10:00):
From India to Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:02):
From India to Iraq.
Valentine Balass (00:10:03):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:04):
What kind of, what kind of goods? So, what kind of textiles? Like cotton?
Valentine Balass (00:10:10):
Cotton.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:12):
Only cotton?
Valentine Balass (00:10:12):
Mostly cotton.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:13):
Made in India?
Valentine Balass (00:10:15):
Oh... Yeah. They, they used to import from India and sell in Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:21):
And silk?
Valentine Balass (00:10:22):
That's it.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:23):
Silk also?
Valentine Balass (00:10:25):
No, what?
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:26):
Silk.
Valentine Balass (00:10:27):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:28):
No silk. Okay. Tell me about uh, your brothers, uh, sisters, uh, how many do you have?
Valentine Balass (00:10:36):
I have, uh, two brothers older than me, and three younger than me. So, I was in the middle.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:51):
And their names? Uh...
Valentine Balass (00:10:53):
Morris, Wilson, then me, then, my brother, Elias, my late brother, Elias, and uh, Selim, and Emil.
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:07):
And how close were you to them growing up, uh, how close are you-
Valentine Balass (00:11:11):
We were very close but we used to fight a lot. (laughing)
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:18):
And now, you are?
Valentine Balass (00:11:20):
We are still close.
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:21):
No fighting anymore?
Valentine Balass (00:11:23):
No, no.
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:24):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:11:25):
My, my father made sure that we always get together, because when uh, when they immigrated here, uh, I mean, we used to go every week... On Saturday, we went to my father's, and uh, and uh, after that, it was my mother. My father passed away. We still went. And then, it, it doesn't happen as often, not every week, but the high holidays, we always do together, and uh, in the summer, we go to Selim in the country house, uh, every... almost every Saturday and Sundays, so we, we get together quite a lot.
Lisette Shashoua (00:12:17):
Well, can you describe your home in Baghdad where you grew up?
Valentine Balass (00:12:22):
Um, we had a home which uh, which was not closed in. In Iraq, most houses are open. Like you have a veranda around, and then, you sleep on the roof.
Lisette Shashoua (00:12:41):
Mm-hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:12:43):
And uh, and e... each one us, uh... that's where we used to play.
Lisette Shashoua (00:12:53):
On the roof?
Valentine Balass (00:12:54):
In this... No.
Lisette Shashoua (00:12:55):
Uh...
Valentine Balass (00:12:55):
In the house.
Lisette Shashoua (00:12:56):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (00:12:56):
Because it's open. Because uh, there, you, you can uh, uh, it's an open space. Uh, so... In fact, I learned how to bike by myself there because my father wouldn't allow me to learn how to bike. So, I stayed home one day and they were out and I taught myself how to ride the bike. There was enough space to learn.
Lisette Shashoua (00:13:27):
Uh, your brothers' bikes, I guess.
Valentine Balass (00:13:30):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:13:31):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:13:31):
My brother. No, not mine, believe me (laughing)
Lisette Shashoua (00:13:37):
What section of uh, Baghdad was your house on? Was it near the river?
Valentine Balass (00:13:42):
The place I was born in was uh, the center of downtown. But then, we moved. Uh, it was on the river, and uh, we had a veranda which was over the river.
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:00):
Hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:14:00):
Like you sit there, you have the river right there in front of you. And then, uh, we moved later on. We moved actually, uh... after Emil was born, we moved to, uh, [Kardepasia 00:14:19]...
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:19):
Hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:14:19):
With the... which was also on the river, but it was not on top of the river. There, you have, uh, streets, and then, the house. But there is no house in front of you.
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:36):
Were you near Abu Noas at some point?
Valentine Balass (00:14:39):
On Abu Noas, yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:41):
We are migrant there at some point.
Valentine Balass (00:14:43):
Yeah, I know that.
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:44):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:14:44):
I know that. Actually, your grandparents were neighbours with my grandfather, my paternal grandfather after they moved. They moved to a house there and uh, we were farther up.
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:06):
[inaudible 00:15:06]?
Valentine Balass (00:15:06):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:08):
Uh, did your mom cook at home, i... in Baghdad?
Valentine Balass (00:15:12):
My mom never cooked in Baghdad. She didn't even know how to cook. But she came to Canada before they immigrated and she saw everybody was inviting her for dinner and she didn't know how to cook anything. So, when she went back... she used to go to the kitchen, sit with the cook, and tried to learn and marked down how Iraqi food is made.
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:39):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (00:15:39):
(laughs)
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:40):
Wow. And uh, your... the help that you had, were they Christian, Muslim, Jewish?
Valentine Balass (00:15:47):
In the beginning, we had Jews. We had a cook who was a Jew, we had uh, the maid who was for, uh, for us kids, was Jewish. Uh, everybody was Jewish. Only the gardener was uh, Muslim. And then, when the Jews left, uh, in 1950-51, then, we started hiring Christians. We didn't have a choice.
Lisette Shashoua (00:16:24):
Your mom, did she played bridge?
Valentine Balass (00:16:28):
No. She played hand rummy.
Lisette Shashoua (00:16:31):
With my grandmother?
Valentine Balass (00:16:33):
Uh, maybe. Yeah, she did. With her or with others.
Lisette Shashoua (00:16:39):
Yes. (laughs) And your dad, did he play backgammon?
Valentine Balass (00:16:45):
He played backgammon a lot. Actually, he, uh, he used to play with me too. He played with all of us. And uh, I became a very good backgammon player.
Lisette Shashoua (00:16:59):
He taught you?
Valentine Balass (00:17:00):
Yeah. I... because I... He used to play with my mother at home and he used to play with all of us.
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:10):
Did he used to go to the coffee with all the men who used to sit at [inaudible 00:17:15]?
Valentine Balass (00:17:16):
No, not me. My brothers went.
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:18):
No, your, your dad. And you-
Valentine Balass (00:17:21):
I was a girl. They were... they would never take me to [inaudible 00:17:24] no way.
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:25):
But he would go?
Valentine Balass (00:17:26):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:27):
Him.
Valentine Balass (00:17:28):
With?
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:29):
Your dad.
Valentine Balass (00:17:29):
Oh, yes. He would go. He would go. He took Morris, sometimes, Wilson but never me.
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:41):
Who did he play [inaudible 00:17:41] then?
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:42):
Who did your dad play backgammon with? Uh, in the [Pauha 00:17:45]they used to play?
Valentine Balass (00:17:47):
I don't know if he played there, he might have. But they used to go just, uh, to chat and uh, talk, uh, whatever they felt like talking about, and uh, have some tea.
Lisette Shashoua (00:18:02):
Narghile?
Valentine Balass (00:18:03):
No. Narghile, he wouldn't... He never took narghile, no.
Lisette Shashoua (00:18:07):
But they did in the coffee, uh, house, didn't they, usually?
Valentine Balass (00:18:10):
Not the Jewish coffee shops, I don't think so. I'm not sure though.
Lisette Shashoua (00:18:15):
There were Jewish coffee shops in the time of your dad?
Valentine Balass (00:18:18):
No. But whatever it... Ma-maybe, uh, when I was little. I don't know. Maybe they used to go to a Jewish coffee shop because everybody was Jewish at that time. Uh, the whole area was Jewish. There were few, with us, we had some Muslim near us because there were the boats, uh, the boats was ran by Muslims, not by Jews.
Lisette Shashoua (00:18:40):
Mm-hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:18:41):
And we were living on the river side and uh, we used to make, uh, invite people for Samak Masgouf fish, and uh-
Lisette Shashoua (00:18:51):
How was that fish cooked? Do you... could you tell us?
Valentine Balass (00:18:54):
They used to make the fish and bring it to us. We weren't far.
Lisette Shashoua (00:19:00):
But how was that fish cooked? How was it made?
Valentine Balass (00:19:03):
It was made... They put uh, like wooden sticks and hang the fish on it and make like a bonfire. And they cook about four, five fishes together, and uh, they made it.
Lisette Shashoua (00:19:22):
And people would choose the fish fresh from the...
Valentine Balass (00:19:28):
Not everybody. Look, I mean, uh, if you're talking about Iraqi, Jews, uh, high society, they don't eat with their hands, never. But one thing they used to do, they ate with the spoon. The rice and the mixture, they used to eat with a spoon. And then, it stopped.
Lisette Shashoua (00:20:02):
Um, can you tell us about the Shabbats that you had in Baghdad? How did you have Shabbats? Was it...
Valentine Balass (00:20:10):
Shabbat, uh, every Friday, we had kiddush, and uh, we had dinner. And my father used to make the kiddush and uh, we, we were all there, we sat together and uh, nobody, even lit a lamp or electricity. You call a Muslim from outside to turn on and off the electricity. And for Shabbat, we made tbeet. The tbeet was put and it stays warm and it cooks and you eat it on Saturday with eggs, [bera at pit 00:20:57]. And uh, that's how we choose to be. But for the, uh, high holidays, we always went to my grandfather.
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:08):
So when you had the Shabbat, it was at home, only you and your brothers and sisters and parents?
Valentine Balass (00:21:13):
Ma... Yeah. My father, my mother, my siblings and-
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:18):
And, and lunch was also the same. That... uh, when you say you had t'bit, it was lunch?
Valentine Balass (00:21:23):
It was, uh... We always eat lunch, we didn't eat dinner but Shabbat was different. I think I... I can't even remember but I do remember we used to say Kiddush, we used to say Eshet Hayil.
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:36):
On, on Friday night?
Valentine Balass (00:21:37):
On Friday ni... it, it should be night because after you light the candles or the karahi.
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:45):
Can you tell us about the karahi?
Valentine Balass (00:21:48):
The karahi, it's a bowl where you put water and you put oil and you like uh, with cotton wool on sticks and you light it and it stays quite a while.
Lisette Shashoua (00:22:03):
And the... this cotton wool, usually, it's made by hand, right?
Valentine Balass (00:22:06):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:22:07):
It's done by hand.
Valentine Balass (00:22:07):
You put it on the thin stick and you twist it and with the oil, you light it and it stays.
Lisette Shashoua (00:22:17):
So you put the oil on top of the water?
Valentine Balass (00:22:20):
On top of the water, yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:22:21):
And it s... this one sticks...
Valentine Balass (00:22:22):
Look, I'm not an expert in that but that's what I remember, I can tell you that.
Lisette Shashoua (00:22:28):
And did your dad go to the synagogue Friday night or...
Valentine Balass (00:22:32):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (00:22:32):
... sha... Saturday morning?
Valentine Balass (00:22:33):
No. No. My mom was more religious than my dad. But uh, not all the Jewish used to go to the synagogue Friday and Saturday morning, no. Uh, my grandfather, my maternal grandfather used to go sometimes, so my brother, Selim, loved to go there. So, he used to go with him. My father didn't go. But here, when they immigrated to Canada, yes, they used to go every Saturday. Not Friday nights, Saturday morning.
Lisette Shashoua (00:23:04):
Your parents?
Valentine Balass (00:23:05):
Yeah. They used to go to the synagogue which wasn't far from them.
Lisette Shashoua (00:23:10):
What year did your parents come to Canada?
Valentine Balass (00:23:14):
1957.
Lisette Shashoua (00:23:16):
So...
Valentine Balass (00:23:16):
Morris, first, Morris, he went to study in London. And when he finished, they didn't give him a visa to stay. So, he left. He passed by Canada thinking of going to Japan but he loved Montreal, so, he stayed. He applied for an immigration, and then, he had to leave the country and come back until he got it. And then, Wilson finished his education, and immigrated to Canada. And then, Elias went to study and after that, my parents left and they immigrated to Canada. So, everyone of them, Selim and Emil came with them. And uh, they all lived here.
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:07):
And you stayed in Baghdad because...
Valentine Balass (00:24:09):
I stay... I was married before. They left in '57, I got married in uh, '54. So, they came to Canada and I stayed.
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:25):
Uh, can you describe a Seder, uh, a typical Seder that you had. Who came, who came to your house, what kind of food did you have in Baghdad in the Seder.
Valentine Balass (00:24:36):
For Seder?
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:37):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (00:24:38):
What do you mean-
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:38):
Pesach. Pesach. You know, the-
Valentine Balass (00:24:43):
For Pesach?
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:44):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (00:24:44):
For Pesach, it was strictly kosher. I mean, uh, they never brought bread or anything, they didn't mix. But what kind of food? You always make food, you make rice and you make uh, salty food and you make a sweet and sour. And then, there is salad and after that, you have fruits. But uh, I don't think we ever ate desserts after the meal. Nobody, uh, thought of dessert after the meal.
Lisette Shashoua (00:25:24):
And in Seder then, they... you didn't... they didn't have the, uh, Pesach, uh, cake or anything. There was no-
Valentine Balass (00:25:32):
Oh, yes. Date syrup, we had, of course. We had date syrup with, uh, walnuts and uh, every... we, we had two nights of reading the Haggadah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:25:47):
Mm-hmm.
Valentine Balass (00:25:49):
And uh, all these was done at my grandfather's house. But uh, later on, we eat at home.
Lisette Shashoua (00:25:57):
And uh, the date syrup with the walnuts, was that the Iraqi charoset?
Valentine Balass (00:26:04):
Because you're supposed to s... eat matza and maror...
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:09):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (00:26:10):
... so, you, you, you put it in the date syrup and the, and the walnuts.
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:19):
And the social circles that your parents belonged to, were they...
Valentine Balass (00:26:25):
They had friends in Iraq. It's not like here. People call you and say they want to come and visit you, and they come.
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:36):
And were they mainly Jewish?
Valentine Balass (00:26:39):
Many what?
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:39):
Mainly Jewish people or...
Valentine Balass (00:26:41):
All Jewish people.
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:43):
All?
Valentine Balass (00:26:43):
We never mingled with the, with any other religion.
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:47):
Uh-
Valentine Balass (00:26:47):
The Jewish were Jew... uh, stayed with the Jews, the Christian with the Christian, the Muslim with the Muslim, but we, we never mingled with other people. And we used to have clubs. There used to be a club, the club we used to call, uh, to go to was called [Nadi Rashid 00:27:04]. That's where we used to go. We played in the garden, we played in the swings and uh, and uh, um, my pa... I don't remember. I think probably my father played my... backgammon there and uh, I don't... Uh, my mother, it was social, just social.
Lisette Shashoua (00:27:28):
And uh, and the club, was there like a pool, did you go swimming? Did you play tennis?
Valentine Balass (00:27:34):
No, no, no.
Lisette Shashoua (00:27:34):
None of that?
Valentine Balass (00:27:35):
No pool, no... there were only swings for the children. And there were those big swings where the grown ups sit like a couch and uh, they sit and they chat, they make a big circle of women, and the men start approach them, the women start approach them, then, uh, we all go home. That's how it used to be.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:02):
And uh... so, you only had really Jewish friends. And the language spoken at home was?
Valentine Balass (00:28:08):
Iraqi, Jewish, Arabic.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:11):
[inaudible 00:28:11] you speak to the help.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:13):
And what language did you speak to the help?
Valentine Balass (00:28:17):
Arabic. We speak in Arabic. All of us speak in Arabic. But uh, strangely enough, my mother didn't know how to write or read Arabic. She used to... because [de allianz 00:28:30] used to teach them French.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:33):
She used to teach-
Valentine Balass (00:28:34):
So, she used to correspond with her sister who lived in Tehran in French. Uh, she didn't know how to read or write Arabic.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:44):
Who did she teach French to, your mom?
Valentine Balass (00:28:47):
Hmm?
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:48):
Who did she teach French to? You're saying your mom taught French. To whom?
Valentine Balass (00:28:53):
Spoke French.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:56):
Oh, speak, I'm sorry.
Valentine Balass (00:28:57):
I think they taught...
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:57):
I'm sorry.
Valentine Balass (00:28:57):
... she spoke.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:57):
She spoke French.
Valentine Balass (00:28:58):
She spoke French and she wrote in French and uh, her sister wrote her back-
PART 1 OF 5 ENDS [00:29:04]
Valentine Balass (00:29:03):
She wrote in French, and our sister wrote her back in French.
Lisette Shashoua (00:29:05):
My grandmother too.
Valentine Balass (00:29:06):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:29:07):
(laughs) And okay. Now tell us about the school, the school you went to.
Valentine Balass (00:29:15):
I went uh, as a little girl, I went to the Alliance school in the kindergarten which was called the Azile with, uh, Madame Sabagh, uh, who used to tell me, [foreign language 00:29:33] because my mother was her student. She was Madame Sabagh's student, so she used to tell me [foreign language 00:29:44].
Lisette Shashoua (00:29:43):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:29:47):
(laughs) Like uh, and uh, actually, we all went to her. I don't think Emile did. Only Emile didn't because uh, they left already.
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:00):
What did Madame Sabagh teach, French?
Valentine Balass (00:30:03):
Madame Sabagh was the, what you call the principal of the kindergarten, in the Alliance school.
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:11):
Ah, okay.
Valentine Balass (00:30:11):
And the main, uh, principal in our school, because the Alliance was for the boys and for the girls, uh, was Madame Laredo.
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:23):
Madame Laredo was?
Valentine Balass (00:30:24):
The principal of the Alliance.
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:26):
Of both?
Valentine Balass (00:30:28):
Of all, of all the Alliance school.
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:31):
Of both? The boys and the girls?
Valentine Balass (00:30:32):
No! Her husband, Monsieur Laredo, was the principal of the boy's school.
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:39):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (00:30:40):
Alliance boy's school.
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:43):
And after that, uh after uh, the Alliance, where did you go?
Valentine Balass (00:30:48):
Uh, after, after the kindergarten, we, uh, left, uh, because you know there was the Farhud in 1941, so my father, after my mother gave birth to my brother Salim, uh we left, we went to India. Uh, it was during the war, and uh, and we went to India. We stayed there two and a half years, then they didn't give my father anymore uh, visa to stay, so we came back to Ira.
Valentine Balass (00:31:32):
And in India, I went to a boarding school because uh, my uncle, had uh, taken room for us in school. But what happened, my aunt Alphonsine came with us, and uh, she came on a student visa, but she didn't have a school. So she took my place, and I was sent to a kindergarten. I used to be very tall for my age at the time, and I felt like uh, I didn't like it. Everyone was small and short, and I'm about, uh, over a head taller than them.
Lisette Shashoua (00:32:16):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:32:17):
And uh, one day in India, we were in Bombay, uh, I went to a park, and there I saw a friend who I knew from Iraq. She was speaking fluent English to me. To me, that's how I felt, and I asked her, she said, "Oh we go to a boarding school. It's amazing. It's this. It's that." So I went home. I insisted I wanted to go. I kept on. My father didn't accept. My mother didn't accept. Finally, they agreed, and I was sent to the boarding school. The night before I went, I regretted it. I didn't want to go. And my dad said, " We gave our word. You are going." And that was it. So I went. I went, and the funny thing, they gave me a card to write that I arrived safely, I am okay. They gave me curry and rice, and I wrote on the card in Arabic [foreign language 00:33:21] curry and rice.
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:26):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:33:27):
Uh, and uh, and I said, I signed [foreign language 00:33:27]. I thought you signed the name of the guy you sent the letter to. I was only a little girl.
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:37):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:33:37):
And then I started sending them letter. I'm crying all the time. My eyes are uh, getting bad. I got [inaudible 00:33:45]
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:45):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:33:46):
which wasn't true. It wasn't true.
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:48):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:33:49):
So they came. They found nothing wrong with me, and I'm walking like this because I didn't speak a word of English.
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:57):
Oh.
Valentine Balass (00:33:57):
And I was in a boarding school and uh, and they were so bad, they were, the English girls are terrible. They used to torture me. They used to fold my sheet so that I can't get in and the matron would come so that I get a punishment. They sewed my nightgrown, my nightgown so that I couldn't put it on. I had a very hard time, but I am a fighter. So, one day, I, eh, we had two showers, one small and dark, and one big and with light. So she wanted to take advantage of me, take both baths for her, the big one. I went to her. I said, "Look, me mmm. You, uh."
Lisette Shashoua (00:34:53):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:34:53):
She said, "Oh shut up!" I said, "No, no, no, no, no. Me, uh. You, uh."
Lisette Shashoua (00:35:00):
(laughs) (coughs)
Valentine Balass (00:35:01):
She started taking off her clothes! So I wrapped her in the towel,
Lisette Shashoua (00:35:06):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:35:06):
And I dragged her to my friend's sister, and I told her, "Tell this idiot it's my turn in the big bathroom." So I had to fight them back, you know, until I settled.
Lisette Shashoua (00:35:24):
Bravo.
Valentine Balass (00:35:25):
Ugh.
Lisette Shashoua (00:35:26):
(laughs) Uh okay, uh, you left after the Farhud you say, right?
Valentine Balass (00:35:37):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:35:37):
Do you remember the Farhud?
Valentine Balass (00:35:39):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:35:39):
Can you say something about it?
Valentine Balass (00:35:40):
Yes. Because what happened like I told you, we lived on the river side and uh, our, we had the veranda which was on the river, you can climb from a boat to the house. So my father was scared. He said, the best thing, my grandfather had a house near the Alliance school which was, uh, at the, at that time, not such a great district. People started going to Karrada and Kardelparsha and, uh, all that. He said this is a poor section. It's the best thing to go there. So we all went there. Us, uh, my Uncle Abraham who wasn't married at the time. My Aunt Chala with her husband and kids. We all stayed in that house. It was a huge house. And my grandfather and grandmother. But what happened, it was there that they were attacking the Jews the most.
Lisette Shashoua (00:36:42):
Oh.
Valentine Balass (00:36:43):
So, the one, uh, they came and knocked on the door and tried to break it open. But there was a policeman who was Jewish. Nobody knew he was Jewish. My father bribed him to take care of us. He didn't let them come and touch us. But, uh, we could see, we saw, uh, there were small windows where you can see and we saw like uh, Jewish woman with kids running away and crying. Apparently, they killed her husband and uh, that I remember. And then, I heard that, uh, they killed a whole family, they built them into a wall, and they took over the house. That's what they did.
Lisette Shashoua (00:37:40):
You mean, you mean-
Valentine Balass (00:37:41):
They attacked many Jews.
Lisette Shashoua (00:37:43):
How did they build them in the wall? I didn't understand.
Valentine Balass (00:37:46):
They built a wall! They took over the house. They built a wall, and they built them inside the wall.
Speaker 1 (00:37:54):
[inaudible 00:37:54]
Valentine Balass (00:37:54):
So after the Farhud, when everything settled, I remember as a kid, I heard that. And uh...
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:04):
Do you remember the names of the families?
Valentine Balass (00:38:07):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:07):
Any of these?
Valentine Balass (00:38:08):
I don't remember. No.
Speaker 1 (00:38:09):
Were you afraid?
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:11):
How did you feel? You must have been...were you scared?
Valentine Balass (00:38:15):
Was I?
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:16):
Were you afraid?
Valentine Balass (00:38:17):
Me?
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:17):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (00:38:19):
I didn't really understand it, but my father was so scared. I mean, he, he wanted us to keep quiet, I remember. He kept us quiet, and I remember, he used to say, uh, "Don't go near the window or uh, you might uh,
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:34):
So you were young?
Valentine Balass (00:38:34):
there might be a flying bullet".
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:38):
You were young? How young?
Valentine Balass (00:38:38):
Yes! I was very young. And um, me and my brother Wilson, we, we run from here to there and uh, we used to try and see from the window what's going on outside. And then, uh, my father sent a policeman to my maternal grandfather's house to guard them, which wasn't far, and uh, until it was over.
Lisette Shashoua (00:39:06):
And after that, and so, you felt any anti-Semitism in, uh, during that time?
Valentine Balass (00:39:14):
Look, I tell you something. Even though Iraq was full of Jews, like I told you, we never mingled with the Muslim. But as a little girl, I remember my father used to say, uh, "Beware. Don't go near someone who is a Muslim, uh, because there were plenty of the people with the boats who rent these boats to cross the river or uh, make fish there. We were scared of them, but we always felt superior because we were much more educated than them. They were really illiterate. They didn't read or write.
Speaker 1 (00:40:00):
Any memories of [inaudible 00:40:07] Memories of
Lisette Shashoua (00:40:00):
Of India?
Speaker 1 (00:40:09):
[inaudible 00:40:09]
Lisette Shashoua (00:40:10):
Uh, do you have any old memories of anti-Semitism other than like, do you remember anything?
Valentine Balass (00:40:19):
As a little kid?
Lisette Shashoua (00:40:22):
The Nazis?
Valentine Balass (00:40:22):
Or later on?
Speaker 1 (00:40:23):
[inaudible 00:40:23]
Lisette Shashoua (00:40:23):
The Nazis. The Nazis.
Valentine Balass (00:40:24):
As a little kid, yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:40:24):
Nazis.
Valentine Balass (00:40:24):
I was afraid of them because where we lived to go to school, you can go from two sides. You can go from the right side, which is open, which is further. Or you can go from the left side, and there was like uh, um, what do you say, it, its, there's a building on top of it and it's dark and you go from there, and it's a very shortcut. And there were Jewish houses after that. Actually, that Jewish house which had, uh, this built as uh, like on top of, uh, of, of the tunnel. It's like a tunnel.
Lisette Shashoua (00:41:13):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (00:41:13):
On top of the tunnel was uh, a guy, he was my aunt's uncle who lived there. Every house in the neighbourhood was Jewish. In front, in the back, in the next door. They were all Jewish. So whenever I wanted to cross from the tunnel, I used to run. Like you run for your life. I used to run, and then I am out there, I am safe. I am okay. But we were afraid of them.
Lisette Shashoua (00:41:49):
Of the Muslims?
Valentine Balass (00:41:51):
Of the Muslim. Very much.
Lisette Shashoua (00:41:53):
And during World War II, did you, did you encounter Nazis? Did, or were you afraid of them? Did you know about them? Do you have any experiences?
Valentine Balass (00:42:03):
We heard. We heard that they, uh, were killing Jews, that they make them go up on the ladder and then throw the ladder and then shoot them and they laughed. We heard that, but not to the extent that it turned out to be. And, uh, they wanted to do that, uh, during the Farhud. Rashid Ali was, uh, uh, someone who wanted to do the same. He was with, uh, Germans against the English but then, uh, the English let them.
Lisette Shashoua (00:42:39):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (00:42:42):
And uh, and then, after that, they did what they did. Then the Jews started to wear. Whoever could, left Baghdad and Morsky went to India and uh, but, uh, um, I had already two uncles there when we went to India. One of them was a British, my Uncle Simon was a British subject and uh, he was there with his kids.
Lisette Shashoua (00:43:15):
How did he become a British subject?
Valentine Balass (00:43:17):
He became British, I think uh, because so that no one can, uh, uh tell him to get out or something like that. And he, uh, which was good for him. It helped him when he wanted to go to London. He was a British subject. He could live there. And uh, they run the business from India, both uncles, and my father was running it in Baghdad. And then uh, when my father went, all three of them started to run the business together.
Lisette Shashoua (00:43:52):
Yeah, when your father went where? To-
Valentine Balass (00:43:54):
To India.
Lisette Shashoua (00:43:54):
To India?
Valentine Balass (00:43:55):
When we went to India.
Lisette Shashoua (00:43:56):
Oh yes, yes, yes.
Valentine Balass (00:43:57):
But like I told you, they didn't let us stay but he, they cannot tell him leave.
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:02):
So, you didn't feel any anti-Semitism in India?
Valentine Balass (00:44:06):
I didn't feel?
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:07):
Any anti-Semitism in India? Did you?
Valentine Balass (00:44:12):
I was too young to remember such a thing.
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:15):
But then you were-
Valentine Balass (00:44:15):
I don't think so.
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:16):
But then they didn't allow you to stay anyway. You had to leave.
Valentine Balass (00:44:20):
Oh well, uh, they didn't, probably it was a Christian also they wouldn't have allowed them. I don't know.
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:29):
Uh, when you were, so you were two years in India, right?
Valentine Balass (00:44:32):
Two and a half.
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:33):
Two and a half years in India. Why did you go back, back to Baghdad?
Valentine Balass (00:44:38):
Because they took away our visa!
Speaker 1 (00:44:40):
[inaudible 00:44:40]
Valentine Balass (00:44:40):
They didn't give my father an extension of the visa.
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:44):
Um, why not, uh, Canada, U.S.A., England?
Valentine Balass (00:44:48):
We went back, my grandfather was in Iraq. The whole family was in Iraq.
Speaker 1 (00:44:54):
[inaudible 00:44:54]
Valentine Balass (00:44:54):
We went back to everybody. That was our country, that was where we live. Uh, we were devoted Iraqis.
Lisette Shashoua (00:45:22):
Uh, could you please describe the most prominent Jewish organization, uh, that you were involved with, uh, if you were involved with your family in any prominent Jewish organization like, a, uh,
Speaker 1 (00:45:38):
[inaudible 00:45:38]
Lisette Shashoua (00:45:38):
in your youth.
Valentine Balass (00:45:41):
No. I was not,
Speaker 1 (00:45:45):
[inaudible 00:45:45]
Valentine Balass (00:45:45):
and the ones who were, were young men, uh, which uh, actually uh, one or two of them were, uh, killed. They, they were hanged when they found out about them and uh... look, actually there was nothing against the Jews from the government, uh, at that time except like Rashid Ali or they... people minded their own business. Iraqi Jews were not into politics. So they never threatened anybody's position, and uh, they were okay. They were living okay and until uh, 1948. Then they started. First, they killed Ades, who was hanged in Iraq, in Basrah, right in front of his house. Eh, he was a very prominent Jewish man and he was very rich, and, uh, he didn't believe anyone would be against him. He was a friend uh, from what I heard, I don't know if it's, uh, true or not. He was a friend of the regent of Iraq. And he didn't believe anyone would harm him, and yet in the end, he was a scapegoat. They took him. They hanged him in his uh, in front of his house, and they confiscated all his money.
Lisette Shashoua (00:47:31):
And they, they, they used an excuse. What excuse did they use?
Valentine Balass (00:47:36):
What?
Lisette Shashoua (00:47:37):
They used an excuse to hang him? What did they say? Why were they hanging him?
Valentine Balass (00:47:41):
No, you see. They wanted, the, uh, (sigh)... governments, when they come to power, they want to make themselves as though they know something, they can do, like, they are, they are taking care of Jews. This is a very prominent Jewish man, and when they hang him, it's like an honour to them. But, uh, from then on, Iraqi Jews started to feel really, really scared because once they hang one man, they can do it to everybody.
Valentine Balass (00:48:19):
But at the time, it was work from the Jewish agency, uh, to get the Jews to go, immigrate to Israel. And they give up their nationality, and they leave. So, most of them, that's exactly what they did. But not everybody, uh, did it. So those Jews, when it came that they give up their nationality, their money was confiscated. They only allowed them insignificant amount of money to take with them, like nothing, and they were not allowed to take any jewelry, they were not allowed to take money, and they started to look for ways, the women, started to look for ways, uh, to take their jewelry. So, they started either, if you have a pad, a, uh, shoulder pad, they opened it and they filled it or the shoe, the heel, they made it hollow, and they put the jewelry to take it. But some of them were caught! And it was taken from them. And some, uh, were able to take it.
Valentine Balass (00:49:45):
But the money, the main money they had, they didn't allow them to take it. It was confiscated. They, if they had land, they confiscate it. If they had homes, they confiscate it. Everything they confiscated from these people. And then, at the time, maybe there were left about, uh, uh they, the, there used to be over 180,000 Jews, and even I've heard the figure of 220, but I don't know which is correct. But, uh, these people, uh, only 20,000 were left. Because all they heard that Canada is cold and ice and snow and uh, uh, so most of them wanted to go London and didn't give, uh, it was very hard to give them. And some, who had land there, and they didn't want to go penniless, they stayed. They stayed and uh, and they suffered the consequence. Uh, by the time it was the '67 war, uh, there was only about uh, five, six-thousand Jews in Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (00:51:11):
Uh, were your parents involved in any Zionism or Zionist movements at all?
Valentine Balass (00:51:16):
Are you kidding me? My father was scared of his own skin. No way. No. Iraqi Jews as a whole were not involved in any politics. Like I told you, it's young men, 18 to 25. These were the men who were involved in Zionism and in uh, whatever. But not, uh, uh, people who had families. No. I never heard of a, of a family man who was involved in uh, Zionism.
Lisette Shashoua (00:51:51):
Uh, how, how did they view the state of Israel at the time?
Speaker 1 (00:51:56):
You view.
Lisette Shashoua (00:51:56):
Your parents.
Valentine Balass (00:51:57):
Who? The government?
Lisette Shashoua (00:51:58):
Your parents.
Lisette Shashoua (00:51:59):
No, your parents.
Valentine Balass (00:52:00):
Oh, I tell you everybody was happy about it, but that was kept inside. It wasn't, uh, revealed to anyone, nor did they speak about it. Never. They never by, look, even in '67, they were winning. I was happy. I, uh, at the beginning, I was listening to the radio, trying to get, uh, what's happening because, uh, and Israel was telling them, put down your arms, stay inside and you won't be hurt. That I was, uh, very much, uh, uh, happy to hear but to, to say I am happy? Never. I would never say that.
Valentine Balass (00:52:44):
And actually, one of the days I was listening to the radio, and all of a sudden I hear a noise at the door and uh, my husband, Victor, came in and I said, "Who is outside?" Because I heard the noise. He said, "It's the police." So I immediately turned the radio because it was on the Israeli broadcast. I went upstairs. I had a Reader's Digest book where they said there was a young boy, uh, his name, I think, was David, and he was able to go through a tunnel, uh, from Jerusalem, I don't know where, to Beit HaMikdash which is the center of Kaaba, the, what do you call it, the, uh-
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:43):
[inaudible 00:53:43]
Valentine Balass (00:53:43):
The [foreign language 00:53:43], uh,
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:44):
Yeah, yeah, the dome...
Valentine Balass (00:53:45):
The dome of the rock.
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:47):
The dome of the rock.
Valentine Balass (00:53:48):
Yeah. So, I, I didn't know where to put the book. Shall I put it under the mattress? Shall I put it where?
Speaker 1 (00:53:54):
(cough)
Valentine Balass (00:53:55):
So I figured, I had a cupboard where the heel of the cupboard was like that. I put it there, and I was praying to God they wouldn't catch it. Anyway, what delayed them not to come immediately inside, my father-in-law had just passed away-
Lisette Shashoua (00:54:13):
(Gasp)
Valentine Balass (00:54:15):
And, uh, we had forms at the time. So the guy comes in, and he calls him, he said, his father just, uh, died. Should we leave him and come back? He told him, "No. You search the house. You search the office, and you notify him, and then you come."
Lisette Shashoua (00:54:42):
You notify your, your, your husband-
Valentine Balass (00:54:45):
That, my husband, that my husband needs to come for questioning and uh, actually what they did, the, the, the fifth day, six o'clock in the morning, we were sleeping on the roof, my husband was sitting shiva at his mother's, and they came, "Where is Victor?" I said, "Eh, he's not here. He's sitting, eh shiva." "No! It's finished. Five days." I said, "Jews have seven days." They said, "Okay, uh, uh, where is he?" I said, "Uh, he's at his mother's. He's sitting shiva." So he said, "Okay, tell him to come when it finishes."
Lisette Shashoua (00:55:32):
(laughs)
Valentine Balass (00:55:33):
You think I believed him? I immediately put my clothes on and rushed there. I saw him taking him out, like this. Had no mercy. You don't know, you, you have no...I, I don't know what I said even. I was screaming at them and they said, "Momma, just relax. It's only two, three questions and we'll bring him back."
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:01):
You were telling us that you went to your, uh, in-law's house, what, to, to see Victor, to, to tell him that the police arrived, and you saw him-
Valentine Balass (00:56:13):
No! I, I did, I went there-
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:17):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (00:56:17):
To see because I didn't believe them. I knew they were going to get him, so I, I rushed there, and I saw him, them bringing him out! They were taking him. And then, I followed them! I followed them, and I left my children! I followed them and uh, I saw them take him in. And then, I tried to get in! I thought I can get in! They didn't allow me!
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:51):
Where?
Valentine Balass (00:56:53):
At the police, at the imman, which is, the police. Look, there are two kinds of prisons. There is a military prison, and there is a police prison, and, but eh, of course they have uh, several uh, uh, like, uh, it's not in one place. It's divided. They have, uh [foreign language 00:57:22] imman which is more strict than the imman, than the police,
Lisette Shashoua (00:57:28):
The investigation
Valentine Balass (00:57:28):
And then they have, uh, the military, uh, there is [foreign language 00:57:33] where they killed whoever go in there, uh, they didn't let him come out alive.
Lisette Shashoua (00:57:40):
[foreign language 00:57:40] in English is?
Valentine Balass (00:57:42):
It's the castle...,
Lisette Shashoua (00:57:45):
Castle of, of the End
Valentine Balass (00:57:48):
Of end
Lisette Shashoua (00:57:48):
Of the end. It means-
Valentine Balass (00:57:50):
Castle of the End. That's what they called. Whoever goes there, never comes out alive. But, uh, by the way, there were a few who did come out alive. You know that.
PART 2 OF 5 ENDS [00:58:04]
Valentine Balass (00:58:02):
[inaudible 00:58:01] to life. You know that. And that's a very interesting story.
Lisette Shashoua (00:58:07):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (00:58:08):
You want me to tell it now?
Lisette Shashoua (00:58:10):
Yes, go ahead.
Valentine Balass (00:58:12):
There was a guy who was in prison. His name is Youseff Jengenna. He lives in New York now. He was with his partner and, uh, his brother in law and, uh, others. And they took them to Qasr al-Nahiya. So one day, his wife came to me, Victor was in prison, he was in the police prison, not the military. She came to me and she said, "Valentine, I want to ask you a favor. I dreamt last night, if Daisy ... Daisy is Daisy Shabbi, it's Dr. Jack Abutz' wife. She said, "If Daisy fasts, my husband will come out" ... look. I'm getting goosebumps.
Lisette Shashoua (00:59:11):
Me too.
Valentine Balass (00:59:14):
"Can you ask her?" Because I knew Daisy. I mean, I see her all the time. She comes visit me, she asks about me. Uh, her husband sends her to ask about me. So I said, " I will, but you know, she gets, uh, fainting spells. I don't know if she can fast. But I will definitely tell her." So I went to Daisy and I told her, "This is the story."
Valentine Balass (00:59:48):
Now, what happened, come the Thursday of that very week, Daisy fasted and she went to Farrah, his wife, Youseff Jengenna's wife, and she told her, "I am fasting and I've come to break my fast with you in your house." She broke the fast. That was the Thursday. That very week, they brought her husband to the police with the others, and they were out of prison before even Victor got out. They were out of prison. You believe it?
Lisette Shashoua (01:00:40):
Wow. Wow. So they what, they brought him back from Qasr al-Nahiya, from the Castle of the End-
Valentine Balass (01:00:46):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:00:47):
To the police station, which was a milder place. [crosstalk 01:00:51]
Valentine Balass (01:00:50):
Well, it's milder. So saying, it's milder. But of course, it's not as dangerous as the other. Anything can happen from anywhere, whether here or there. Jew is not safe anywhere. But they did bring him, and he was out. He was out, and, uh-
Lisette Shashoua (01:01:15):
Amazing.
Valentine Balass (01:01:16):
And he lives in the States now.
Lisette Shashoua (01:01:20):
Okay, let's get back to Victor now. Uh, the 24 days, can you tell us about-
Valentine Balass (01:01:28):
The first time, like I told you, they came to the house, they searched the house. And the first thing they did was turn over the mattress, where I was thinking of putting the book. And they even looked in the freezer of the fridge. Believe it or not. And then, they took him to the office and they searched the office. Now in there, there was a safe. I had some jewelry there, some bonds, uh, my sister-in-law, Freha, had some of hers also in there. It was taken, except for anything with diamonds, because I think they didn't think the diamonds were worth anything. They thought the gold and the bonds were worth ... They disappeared, but who are we to say they disappeared? Not a word.
Valentine Balass (01:02:41):
Anyway, they took it. He came home-
Lisette Shashoua (01:02:45):
That was before-
Valentine Balass (01:02:45):
He came ... he came home, so they told me, uh, I think at the time Sammy or, I don't remember. He said, "You know what? Go see ... We ... they knew the nephew of the president of the time. They said, "Go to him-"
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:08):
The president was-
Valentine Balass (01:03:10):
And tell him the story.
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:11):
Who was the president then?
Valentine Balass (01:03:13):
The president was, uh, at the time, uh ...
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:23):
[inaudible 01:03:23]
Valentine Balass (01:03:24):
Not Abdul Salam Arif. His brother. His brother was the president.
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:29):
Abdul Rahman. Abdul Rahman.
Valentine Balass (01:03:31):
Abdul Rahman Arif. Bravo. He was the president. His nephew was the head of the police, [inaudible 01:03:40]. And, they knew the nephew and, uh, he wanted ... they had, uh, the, the agency for radios and he wanted it. So, I don't know if it was him or not.
Valentine Balass (01:04:01):
Anyway, they took Victor. They took Victor and, uh ... before that I went to the president's brother. And I told him, "Look, this is his story. They came for him. What did we do? We are only ... We are Jews, but we have nothing to do with the war. Why are they taking him?" This, that. He said, "[inaudible 01:04:29], please talk to your son-in-law," this, that. He said, "Okay."
Valentine Balass (01:04:34):
Anyway, it took 24 days because he helped me. He helped me get him out. He got ... at the time, by the way, he went, "You know, in Iraq, when someone is mourning, they do not change the clothes they wear." He went in those clothes. He had no pillow, he had no blanket. He had nothing. So, when they took him, I, I again went, I asked him, "What do I do?" He said, "You can take the pillow and the blanket. He will come out soon." This soon took 24 days.
Lisette Shashoua (01:05:16):
What do you mean? Oh, you can take him a pillow and blanket, for him.
Valentine Balass (01:05:19):
A pillow and blanket. I couldn't even give him fresh clothes, at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (01:05:25):
For 24 days.
Valentine Balass (01:05:27):
24 days. I, I tried in between to take him food. You bribe the police, you bribe this one, you bribe that one, you get something in. So, uh, I used to take him food and, uh, and, uh, with bribery. I don't know it reached him, it didn't reach him, but I was trying. And I sent him fresh clothes, which were pajamas and underwear. Nothing else.
Valentine Balass (01:05:58):
Anyway, after 24 days, they released him.
Lisette Shashoua (01:06:03):
Were you able to visit him during those 24 day-
Valentine Balass (01:06:06):
Are you kidding me? No way. Anyway, that finished, he came home and we thought everything was over. And then all of a sudden, now they come again. Someone from the military came and took him again. The guy who took him wanted bribery.
Lisette Shashoua (01:06:35):
Oof.
Valentine Balass (01:06:37):
That was his aim. He knew my uncle, my, uh, mother's brother. So, I told him, "Come with me. Maybe you can do something." Because I didn't know what he wanted. I didn't know at the time even what he wanted. Bribery, no bribery. Uh, all I knew, he took him there.
Lisette Shashoua (01:07:00):
He took him where now? Where was he now?
Valentine Balass (01:07:03):
He was [inaudible 01:07:03] Rashid, which is the military of Rashid headquarters. And he was there.
Valentine Balass (01:07:14):
Oh, I have to go back. I have to go back to the 24 days. There were about 14 of us women who had our husbands in prison. And we decided to go to the head of the police. So, we went there and they started asking each one, in turn, "Who is your husband?" "He's so and so." "What does he do?" "He works in the American embassy." "Oh, so he's a spy." She started crying. Then, the other one, he asks her another question. The same. And then I was the third. He said, "Oh, he's the guy who built private airports and told Israel where these airports are." Because Israel bombed planes which were hidden in Iraq and covered. They bombed it one by one.
Lisette Shashoua (01:08:23):
They bombed the Iraqi airplanes?
Valentine Balass (01:08:25):
Oh yes. They came to Habbani. They knocked all of them.
Lisette Shashoua (01:08:28):
I didn't know that.
Valentine Balass (01:08:30):
Of course. And then, uh, I said, "What, what military planes, what airports? He's not even in construction." He said, "How do you know what he does?" I said, "I know everything he does. Look, my skirt is, uh, is pinned to his pants. I know whatever movement he does." He said, "What's the name of your father?" I said, "[inaudible 01:09:07] Fatel." "What does he do?" I said, "He's not here." And then I figured, "Oh my god, he's going to think he went to Israel." I said, "He's in Canada." He told me, "And why did you stay?" I said, "Because I was married. That's why I stayed." He said, "Okay. Next."
Valentine Balass (01:09:29):
Anyway, he came to Doris Shakur. Doris Shakur, her husband is a pharmacist. And what happened, there were women going to get medication from pharmacies for the Iraqi military, so they told him. And the poor guy was so scared he wanted to give him anything they want. So he, he give ... he said, "Do you want [inaudible 01:10:00] it's pills you take for diarrhea." And the woman goes, "You mean the Iraqi army is having diarrhea scares?" He told her, "No, I didn't say that." He said, "I will teach you a lesson." So when he asked his wife what does he do, he said, "Oh, this is the guy who said the Iraqi army is scared and having diarrhea." She told him, "Why are you saying that? The, the diarrhea, they, they get it from anything. It's a, it's a germ. It's not a sca ... He said, "If it was me, I would have give him a shot in the head." So this one also started crying.
Valentine Balass (01:10:52):
Anyway, in the end, he said, "Why do you women come?" I said, "Who do you want to, to come?" He said, "Do you have [inaudible 01:11:03], the chief of the Jewish organization, let him come. Why are you coming?" So, we went back to [inaudible 01:11:18], you know, he said he's going, apparently he didn't go, because he was afraid for his son.
Lisette Shashoua (01:11:27):
His son was in prison? Or not yet?
Valentine Balass (01:11:29):
His son was in prison in the military. And they told him, "If you come on radio, and you say the Jews are living well, we will not harm your son." And that's what he did. And I followed him to the prison because I didn't believe he was going. He went in. I said "Finish." He went. But he went out the next door. He didn't do anything.
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:03):
Did you see him come out?
Valentine Balass (01:12:05):
Huh?
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:05):
Did you see him coming out?
Valentine Balass (01:12:07):
I didn't see him coming out, because the next day we went, we told him he came, I said "We are not leaving. Uh, you're not getting out everybody from prison." He said he didn't come. He didn't come because that was why he didn't come.
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:23):
So you went back to the rabbi? Did you tell him anything?
Valentine Balass (01:12:26):
Yes, we did. And, uh, he started screaming, "I did. I did," and that. Anyway, that's a different story, which is not important even. So that was it. I mean, 24 days later, he was released from prison, and then he was caught by the military. I took my uncle with me. The guy hides and he says, "He's not here."
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:57):
Who hides? The guy-
Valentine Balass (01:12:59):
The guy who imprisoned my husband. So after that, I heard that you have to give a bribery. I give him bribery. And by the way, I went to someone who was the brother in law of the head of the military in, uh, the, the Ministry of, uh, of War. And I went to his brother in law, I knew him. We used to shower him with presents, really shower him with presents.
Lisette Shashoua (01:13:36):
While, while Victor was in prison?
Valentine Balass (01:13:38):
Uh, yeah, while ... no, before. And while he, uh, he was still in there, and he told me, "Don't worry, I'll get him out." And, uh, I said, "He got out today." He said, "Did you give any bribery?" I said, " No." I'm not going to say yes and then I ... we'll all get killed. I said no. I really said no. I wish I could have said yes, but I said no.
Lisette Shashoua (01:14:15):
That was smart.
Valentine Balass (01:14:15):
Anyway, he went to him and he told him he was trying to get the maximum money from each Jew that he imprisons. So, this guy went to him, he told him, "If I hear you caught one more Jew, you're going to [inaudible 01:14:36]," which is the worst prison for the military. And he stopped catching people after that.
Lisette Shashoua (01:14:47):
That's thanks to you.
Valentine Balass (01:14:49):
Anyway, this passed. That was ... he was caught in '67 July and then again in September 1968 or '69, was it? No, '68.
Lisette Shashoua (01:15:12):
It must be '68.
Valentine Balass (01:15:13):
They hang the 14 Jews in the square and danced around them.
Lisette Shashoua (01:15:19):
Now wait, Victor was-
Valentine Balass (01:15:21):
No, Victor was not in prison.
Lisette Shashoua (01:15:23):
Okay, he was in prison 24 days the first time. The second time, how many?
Valentine Balass (01:15:27):
4 days.
Lisette Shashoua (01:15:28):
Oh.
Valentine Balass (01:15:32):
And, and when they, when, uh ... when they hanged the Jews, the children went to school early. It was a Friday, so we sleep late. There's no work. And we were in bed, and I heard the voice of the children. I said, "What is this? Why are they here?" So I got up, I said, "Why are you here?" They said, "They sent us from school." They said, "They are hanging people." We turn on the TV and we ... oh, my god, I'm getting goosebumps. And we see them dancing around the bodies that are hanged. They said, these people, because they, they made like a theater of, uh, Macama-
Lisette Shashoua (01:16:30):
Trial. Mickey Mouse trial.
Valentine Balass (01:16:32):
Yeah. And they made some guilty, which they hanged. Some were not so guilty, which they punished. And some were free. About 3, 4, 5, let them out of prison. That's what they did. I tell you, when we went there, I swear to you, we became like a little mouse. We were crying. Me and Victor. We couldn't believe what was happening. They were dancing around them. Dancing and rejoicing. And these people, we know they are innocent. And, even when, when, a
Valentine Balass (01:17:18):
Look, when I went to the head of the police when he was asking me, I said, "Look, God made you a Muslim and God made me Jewish. I didn't choose my religion and you didn't choose yours. Why are we punished?" You know what his answer was? "We fight Jews, we imprison Jews." I said, "But we have no hand in it. We, we, we have no connection. Why are we being punished?" He said, "That's the way it goes. We fight Jews, we imprison Jews." So this was another thing. And the Jews were imprisoned in military. They never came out alive except for this guy, Jengenna and his group. They all were killed.
Lisette Shashoua (01:18:20):
You were very, very brave.
Valentine Balass (01:18:22):
I was.
Lisette Shashoua (01:18:23):
You were very brave.
Valentine Balass (01:18:24):
You know, I think, uh, if it was later on, they would have killed me.
Lisette Shashoua (01:18:32):
Uh, did you know ... Did you know any of these people who were killed?
Valentine Balass (01:18:37):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:18:38):
In '69.
Valentine Balass (01:18:38):
Because most of them were from Basra, but there was one we knew, Charles Horaish. Charles Horaish, they took him and they hanged him, and he was really innocent. He was innocent.
Lisette Shashoua (01:18:59):
They all were.
Valentine Balass (01:19:00):
You see, they made the theater of um, a tribunal. Some they have to make guilty, some they have to make half-helpful or whatever, and 3 or 4 innocent, they got them out of jail. And that's how it went. They imprisoned about 70 people. It wasn't a joke. And they killed most of them.
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:33):
How did, uh, ... the children, how did your children react to all this? How did they feel?
Valentine Balass (01:19:40):
I tell you, my children, I, I didn't get even to, uh ... the oldest of all them was Charlie. Charlie in '67, he was 12 years old. He wasn't actually even, uh, 12. He was born in '55. Victor was in prison in July. So he was less than 12. And, uh, he ... he didn't know what to do. I mean, uh, I tried to get everybody not to feel anything, not to know anything. But, uh, I had no control. I had to go and fight by myself. I had to go and fight to get Victor out of prison in every way I can. And I was very bold. I was never afraid. I went in and out, wherever I had to go, I went.
Valentine Balass (01:20:53):
And after that time passed, come the January, they said ... they came to the house and they took Victor. They said only a day or two of questioning. It lasted 7 and a half months.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:16):
They came back a third time for Victor?
Valentine Balass (01:21:19):
The third time.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:20):
January '69, they came?
Valentine Balass (01:21:24):
1970.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:26):
Oh boy.
Valentine Balass (01:21:27):
1970, they came and they took him to prison. Now this time ... the, the first time, by the way, they said he built airports and told Israel where the airports are.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:44):
This was-
Valentine Balass (01:21:45):
I said, "He's not even in construction."
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:47):
This was in '67?
Valentine Balass (01:21:49):
'67.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:50):
And the second time was?
Valentine Balass (01:21:52):
The second time was the guy who wanted to get money, bribery.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:56):
What year was that, same year?
Valentine Balass (01:21:57):
No, that was the same year.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:59):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (01:22:00):
And the third time was in 19-
Lisette Shashoua (01:22:03):
70.
Valentine Balass (01:22:05):
Uh, 70.
Lisette Shashoua (01:22:08):
70.
Valentine Balass (01:22:08):
When, in January?
Lisette Shashoua (01:22:10):
Yeah. And 7 months he was-
Valentine Balass (01:22:11):
They said that ... the guy said, "It will take a few questions, and we'll get him out." He never get out. Seven and a half months, I was running from one place to the other and bribing. The guy I bribed at the time, Odil, whose husband was hanged, bribed him more than me. Because he was in Qasr al-Nahiya. So, she tried to mix him with Victor, which endangered Victor, to get him to come to the police instead of the military, so that he can come out. But what she did put Victor in danger. And I didn't know that.
Lisette Shashoua (01:23:10):
How did that happen?
Valentine Balass (01:23:12):
You see, she, she came to Victor one day before he went to prison, and she told him, "You know Tariq [inaudible 01:23:25]," who was the guy who imprisoned her husband, and he was our helper, who, the first time told him, "If you imprison one more Jew, I'll put you away." So she wanted Victor to help her. And then, she said, "Do you know ... she tried to mix him. She got the idea if she mixes him, she can get her husband to come and stay with Victor in the prison.
Lisette Shashoua (01:23:55):
Mix him in what?
Valentine Balass (01:23:58):
Because Victor was in the police prison.
Lisette Shashoua (01:24:00):
Oh, I see.
Valentine Balass (01:24:02):
Her husband was in the military, Qasr al-Nahiya.
Lisette Shashoua (01:24:04):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (01:24:06):
So she told him, uh, "I need you to help me. And you know, you also did this or that," or I don't know what he told her. "Are you threatening me, or do you want me to help you?" She said, "No, no. I'm trying to get you to help me. Because you know Tariq [inaudible 01:24:30]." So he told her, "I'll try." When we went to Tariq [inaudible 01:24:38], he said, "Don't get involved" because his crime was how they used to sell candies. And he brought from Holland paper wrap for the candy. And the wrap was written on it, "Made in Israel." She didn't tell them. She didn't tell him that she had that wrap on it. And when she came to him, because his brother in law was the head of the military ...
Valentine Balass (01:25:22):
And when he went there to try to help him, they told him, "This guy has candy paper from Israel." You know, she's endangering him. So he was so mad. He went and imprisoned him.
Lisette Shashoua (01:25:41):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (01:25:42):
So, uh, she was trying to get us involved so that she can bring him to the police from the military, because the ones Qasr al-Nahiya is the-
Lisette Shashoua (01:25:55):
Is the end.
Valentine Balass (01:25:56):
Is, uh, the Castle with no End.
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:00):
Exactly.
Valentine Balass (01:26:01):
That's it. So she was trying to get him and she managed to get him because she bribed this guy. If I bribed this guy a few hundred dinars, she bribed him thousands. So he didn't care to mix him, even though I was bribing him, to get him out.
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:23):
Oh, by now, Victor was in the police and-
Valentine Balass (01:26:26):
Yeah. He was in the military, Victor was in the police.
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:30):
Now, he was not hanged with the first 10 in 1969.
Valentine Balass (01:26:35):
No, no, no.
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:37):
He was hanged after.
Valentine Balass (01:26:38):
He was killed after, yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:41):
Because they killed a few times.
Valentine Balass (01:26:43):
Yeah. They killed a few times, but those that were hanged were different. But she was trying to get Victor involved so that she can get her husband to the, uh, police prison.
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:59):
Yes, yes.
Valentine Balass (01:27:00):
You see?
Lisette Shashoua (01:27:01):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (01:27:02):
Anyway ...
PART 3 OF 5 ENDS [01:27:04]
Lisette Shashoua (01:27:02):
[crosstalk 01:27:00].
Valentine Balass (01:27:02):
You see?
Lisette Shashoua (01:27:02):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (01:27:02):
Anyway, by that time it was, uh ... They did bring him, by the way. They brought him to the police. And one day I'm sitting with the f- standing with the food ... because every single day I used to give bribery and get food for Victor to prison. I-
Lisette Shashoua (01:27:26):
And you bribed who? The, the, the guards at the prison? Who did you-
Valentine Balass (01:27:31):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:27:31):
... bribe?
Valentine Balass (01:27:32):
Yeah. I, I, I bribed the guards. I bribed everyone. And I, I was standing there to give him the food, and she ... 'cause [inaudible 01:27:44] is here. Because I knew they're involved in something, but I didn't know to what extent. I said, "So why didn't you tell me?" She said, "He's here." They brought him for questioning with a military man and two soldiers to be able to question him, and they took him back.
Lisette Shashoua (01:28:13):
So that was one day questioning?
Valentine Balass (01:28:16):
The same day, at night they took him back. And I said, "Why didn't you tell me?" Because I knew that, uh, she did some involvement, but I didn't know to what extent she endangered Victor with what she did. So after that they took them back, finished, and I was trying to work my way to get him out. I go to this one, I bribe this one. I bribe the other one. "Wha- what have we done? What do we have to do with it?" They said, "Victor confiscated money to Israel." Ah, what money? What are you talking about?" So I had to prove that he was innocent. Now, in the meantime the guy she bribed, she bribed at the police mixed Victor's file with her husband's file.
Lisette Shashoua (01:29:24):
Oh, boy.
Valentine Balass (01:29:26):
I come one day and the guy, even though I bribed him, he tells me, "You know what ...?" I, I don't want to involve someone who, who lives here, who has nothing to do with it. They are Christians but I don't want to involve them. Maybe it's too hard for them to feel it. I don't want to share their names. Anyway, uh, they, they said, uh ... I went to the guy I bribed and he told me, "It's not in my hand. It's all in the national bank." It's a, it's a government bank, [Bank al-Markazi 01:30:08]. He said, "All the files are there. It's not in my hand anymore."
Lisette Shashoua (01:30:14):
The files are in a bank?
Valentine Balass (01:30:15):
They're in the bank.
Lisette Shashoua (01:30:16):
They're saved in a bank?
Valentine Balass (01:30:18):
For all I know, they didn't take any file from Victor's office. Where did they get files? So I went there and I was talking to the, uh ... there was a military one, a military man. And I said, "What have we done?" He said, "Look, I can't do anything. There are files from here to the roof." I said, "What files? He has no files." He says, "I'm telling you, it's all in Bank al-Markazi. So I went to Bank al-Markazi.
Lisette Shashoua (01:30:59):
You were extremely, extremely brave.
Valentine Balass (01:31:02):
I went there, and they don't let you in, by the way. I don't know, by a miracle from God I talked to the police who were guarding the place, to let me in.
Lisette Shashoua (01:31:14):
You talked or were you able to bribe them too, or no?
Valentine Balass (01:31:16):
I begged the ... I could not bribe them. I was scared. Not there. They will say I, I've done a crime.
Lisette Shashoua (01:31:26):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (01:31:26):
I don't want to do that. You don't bribe just like that.
Lisette Shashoua (01:31:29):
Mm.
Valentine Balass (01:31:30):
You have to bribe ... you have to be very cautious when you bribe. So he told me, "There are files from here to the roof." I said, "What files from here to the roof? They didn't ... we didn't have any files." So I, I begged this guy. I don't know, by a miracle he let me in. I went in there. They told me, "Look at the files." I see a room full of files. I said, "Where did you get these from?"
Lisette Shashoua (01:32:02):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (01:32:03):
"It's not my husband's." They said, "Go talk to [Jamille 01:32:09] ..." I, I don't remember his last name. "He's the manager, go talk to him." So I went there and from what I heard, he was very much against Jews. But I took my chances, I went in there. And he told me, "Oh, the guy who we have files from here to the roof." I said, "What roof? They didn't take one file from him. He's innocent." He said, "The guy who is, uh, a partner of [Arabic 01:32:55]." I said, "We don't even talk to them. We've been ... we, we cut off all communications [Arabic 01:33:09] for years."
Lisette Shashoua (01:33:12):
With whom?
Valentine Balass (01:33:14):
With [Arabic 01:33:15] and [Odile 01:33:15]. I had nothing to do with them. I never ... I said, "We don't visit them. They don't visit us. Each one has a different business." So the guy, you know, he felt there was s- a foul play in the thing.
Lisette Shashoua (01:33:31):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (01:33:31):
He banged his hand on the desk. He said, "Go, and get a form and fill it." I said, "What do I write in it?" "Whatever you told me." I said, "But they won't let me in." He said, "I am giving the authority that you come in. They will let you in, go get a form. Buy a form." So I went outside, I bought the form.
Lisette Shashoua (01:34:00):
What kind of form?
Valentine Balass (01:34:01):
A form to fill. I said, "What do I do?" He said, "Whatever you told me." He felt there was a foul play. And I went, I bought the form. I came back. Believe it or not, all outside in his veranda ... outside the manager's office, were helping me fill in the form, that Victor was not connected to [Arabic 01:34:35]. He had no connection with them whatsoever.
Lisette Shashoua (01:34:47):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (01:34:48):
And now what they blamed Victor, he confiscated money to Israel. How do you prove that he did not confiscate anything to Israel? How do you prove that? Anyway, so I started and I told him, "But they won't let me in." He said, "Wherever you go, this manager, you tell them they ... I have the authority to come in by ..." uh-
Lisette Shashoua (01:35:26):
Jamille.
Valentine Balass (01:35:26):
... his name, uh-
Lisette Shashoua (01:35:27):
Jamille.
Valentine Balass (01:35:28):
... Jamille, uh ... I can't remember his name. I have the authority to come in, and it has to be finished within two weeks. So every day I take the food and the clothes to Victor, fresh clothes and food, and I leave my children at home, and I go to Bank al-Markazi every single day in the summer, 57 degrees centigrade heat. I used to go there. They started, you know, when I come, instead of letting ... telling me, "You can't come in," [Arabic 01:36:13] Valentine. I go in. I, I ask what happened here? What happened there? I went to every single office.
Lisette Shashoua (01:36:25):
What happened what, where? In the office, what happened in the files?
Valentine Balass (01:36:28):
In the bank. In the bank. So every single office ... cut it short?
Lisette Shashoua (01:36:37):
None.
Speaker 2 (01:36:37):
Oh, no.
Valentine Balass (01:36:39):
Anyway, I went to every single office that needed to be. And they told me, "But this, we have to go to the provinces." I said, "How do you expect me to go to the provinces? A Jew is not allowed out of the circle of Baghdad, how am I going to go to the other provinces?" Anyway, after less than two weeks, 12 days, I come. I swear to you, everybody was welcoming me. I couldn't believe it. "Welcome, Valentine. How are you, Valentine?" Valentine, that's what they called me. "How are you?" And this and that. And they said, "The manager says, 'The most respectful man is, in Iraq is Victor Balass.'"
Lisette Shashoua (01:37:40):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (01:37:41):
So I said, uh, "So it's coming out today?"
Lisette Shashoua (01:37:44):
(laughs).
Valentine Balass (01:37:46):
They said, "No, it has to be signed by the governor general." I didn't even hear in my life governor general. I said, "So I go to the governor general." Because I'm used to going everywhere. They said, "No, you can't. This is like a prince. Like a, uh, president. Like a king," like I don't know what. Okay. Okay.
Lisette Shashoua (01:38:15):
What is a governor general in, in-
Valentine Balass (01:38:17):
He has to sign.
Lisette Shashoua (01:38:19):
... the term in Arabic, who was he?
Valentine Balass (01:38:20):
[Mohaffo 01:38:20].
Lisette Shashoua (01:38:20):
Mohaffo.
Valentine Balass (01:38:20):
El Mohaffo. He said, "It's near the mohaffo, the mohaffo will sign and he's finished. He's innocent, he'll go out."
Lisette Shashoua (01:38:33):
Who is the mohaffo, do you know?
Valentine Balass (01:38:35):
Uh, [Marcin 01:38:36], uh ... I, I, I don't remember the name.
Lisette Shashoua (01:38:39):
Oh, you don't?
Valentine Balass (01:38:39):
But they say he was a very good man.
Lisette Shashoua (01:38:43):
Mm.
Valentine Balass (01:38:43):
And the first one was, uh, the Naziest man. The one who was telling me, go this, go that. And, and-
Lisette Shashoua (01:38:53):
Oh,
Valentine Balass (01:38:53):
... he said, 'the most respectful man in Iraq' was the one who [inaudible 01:38:59] the biggest Nazi, and he hated Jews. But he felt there was a foul play, you know? So anyway, they told me, "Go on and come back." I went, I came back. Nothing. "He hasn't seen it yet." I said, "Please, let me go in. I'll ask him. I'm sure he's a very nice man. I beg ..." I begged. You know, when I needed to fight, I fought. When I needed to beg, I begged. So I begged to go. They told me, "You can't." So one of them had mercy on me, and he called and he said the papers are in front of this guy, the mohaffo. I said, "Who's the mohaffo?" But I've never heard it in my life. They said, "He's the guy who signs the money to make it legal." You know, you have the dinar, it's signed by mohaffo.
Lisette Shashoua (01:40:09):
Oh.
Valentine Balass (01:40:12):
So the paper comes back. You know what he said? I ref- because the other manager said, "The most respectful man in Iraq is Victor Balass," and this guy was supposed to be a very nice guy, said, "I refuse to sign such a document about a Jew." Do you believe it? So what do I do now? How do I get him out? I went back and I'm working on it. I'm going to this, I'm going to that. I'm driving this idiot who mixed him with [Arabic 01:41:10], and I bribed him more, and nothing was working. Then one day I, I went, I had a Jewish guy who was helping me. He used to go as a go-between, me and the head of the police who is imprisoning him. And he said, "Tell her to go and sit at home."
Lisette Shashoua (01:41:49):
At your home or his home?
Valentine Balass (01:41:50):
Me-
Lisette Shashoua (01:41:51):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (01:41:51):
... I should go and sit at home.
Lisette Shashoua (01:41:52):
Your home? Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (01:41:54):
My home, and not do anything. Leave it for now. And I said, "Why?" He said, "They just killed [Arabic 01:42:06]." And he had mixed them together. You see, he mixed them. He mixed them in a such a way that they could take Victor there. So he said, "Let things cool down for two weeks." Can you imagine? Two weeks is nothing to them. And he said, "Let things cool down." I told him, "Tell me, what did he do? What did he do? I want to know what he did, so that I can defend it." He said he mixed him to try to save him by bringing him with Victor. It didn't work, and he was still working on it. She was giving him big money, you know? And I stayed two days, three days, I couldn't take it. I said, "I want him out. I want him out, so what do I do? They won't let him out as innocent, but they'll went ... uh-huh, let him out with a bond. So I tried to get someone to bond him, and I couldn't get anyone. It was a Thursday, Friday is a holiday.
Valentine Balass (01:43:53):
So I went to, uh .... What do they call it? Like, uh, where you have all the lawyers and, uh, municipalities, something like that. So I went there and, uh, tried to get him a bond. I don't have a choice. They are not get- letting him out as innocent, but they can call him up any minute. So I went to this guy and I told him, "I want to make him a bond." He said, "And who says he doesn't escape?" I said, "What do you mean, escape? I have three little kids." I had my, my youngest, he's not even, uh, he's, he's only, uh ... How old was Joey? He was, uh ... Joe was born in '69, so he was, uh ... No, in '67 he was born.
Speaker 2 (01:44:53):
'67.
Valentine Balass (01:44:53):
He was, uh, he was a few months old, anyway. Joe was very young.
Lisette Shashoua (01:44:58):
Six.
Speaker 2 (01:44:59):
Six.
Valentine Balass (01:45:00):
1966 he was born, October. So he was really very young. I said, "Where am I to escape? I have babies." Uh, and he said, "Who will, uh, give his word for him? Who will, uh, bond him?" I said, "I will." You know what he told me? [Why, why 01:45:21]. You translate. "[Arabic 01:45:23]. He said, "A bird is bonding, uh-"
Lisette Shashoua (01:45:34):
Is bonding another type of bird, like a, a humming bird [crosstalk 01:45:38].
Valentine Balass (01:45:37):
Yeah, a humming bird.
Lisette Shashoua (01:45:39):
Or a stout.
Valentine Balass (01:45:39):
"And both of them can fly."
Lisette Shashoua (01:45:41):
(laughs).
Valentine Balass (01:45:43):
So I said, "Fly where? I have three little kids. Where am I to go? Where do you think I will go? They don't even allow us to go out of the circle of Baghdad. How are we going to escape?" Because he said, "You might escape."
Lisette Shashoua (01:46:00):
Yes.
Valentine Balass (01:46:00):
So anyway, he accepted to the bribery, but I didn't have enough money on me. So I told him, "I'll give you, uh ... I have 40 dinars. I'll give it to you. I'll give you my watch." I wanted before the Thursday finishes, Friday they are closed. I said, "I'll give you this money and I'll give you my watch ..." a gold watch.
Lisette Shashoua (01:46:28):
Which was gold.
Valentine Balass (01:46:30):
"And I will go and get you the money." Because I wanted to get it to the police before, uh, they closed. Anyway, he accepted and I, I went. I took the papers to the police. And I went, I gave him the money and I took my watch. Now, the next day I'm waiting for him to come out. And then I get a notice that at that time the head of the police was changed. And who was the head of the police? [Arabic 01:47:11], who they called [Arabic 01:47:14]. It means, the Killer.
Lisette Shashoua (01:47:17):
The Butcher.
Valentine Balass (01:47:18):
He told him, "Look, bring him." He told this guy, "Bring him, hang him in the fan and hit him with a hose until he admits." Now, this guy did me so much harm while taking bribery from me to help Odile.
Lisette Shashoua (01:47:41):
Who, [Arabic 01:47:42] was the one?
Valentine Balass (01:47:43):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (01:47:43):
Oh, the other guy.
Valentine Balass (01:47:45):
The other guy. He wanted to help. He told him, "What's the use?" He said, "I went, I searched the house," which was true. "I've searched the office," which was true. "I didn't see anything. What am I going to get out of him?" It was good for that, you know?
Lisette Shashoua (01:48:08):
Yeah. Yeah.
Valentine Balass (01:48:09):
Because with the hose, you know, they have the metal thing.
Lisette Shashoua (01:48:12):
Inside the hose?
Valentine Balass (01:48:14):
Not inside, the head of the hose.
Lisette Shashoua (01:48:16):
Oh.
Valentine Balass (01:48:17):
You'll put the, uh, the metal thing. And so, uh, he, uh, he said, "Okay, leave him in prison till he, he gets a ..." I mean, I had to make him a bond. So I got the bond and the next day they sent him home. The Saturday they sent him home.
Lisette Shashoua (01:48:49):
I think you, you performed a miracle.
Valentine Balass (01:48:53):
Yeah. But I, I, I tell you. You know, during all this going and coming, I wasn't as strong as I am now. First of all, I was young. And the second thing, I used to cry, but I never cared. I cried, I talked. I said whatever I want. Like, I went [Arabic 01:49:19]. And he was telling, "Why do you come? Why don't you send the man?" I said, "Who am I to bring? So that you put the other man also in prison?" I said, "I don't have a choice." But I used to cry. I didn't care. I didn't care if I cried, I didn't cry, I, I said my piece. I, I was never afraid. They tell me, "Go there," even if there's fire, I'll throw myself into the fire and I will go. And that's how I saved Victor.
Lisette Shashoua (01:50:01):
So after that, when did you leave after that?
Valentine Balass (01:50:06):
Victor came out of prison, I think it was in, uh, 1969. I don't know.
Lisette Shashoua (01:50:19):
You, you said they ... it was in-
Valentine Balass (01:50:20):
It was 1970.
Lisette Shashoua (01:50:20):
... 1970. Yeah.
Valentine Balass (01:50:22):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:50:23):
Seven months he was in prison-
Valentine Balass (01:50:24):
'70.
Lisette Shashoua (01:50:24):
... off of January.
Valentine Balass (01:50:25):
Uh, he, he came out in, uh ... towards the end of July, something like that, August. Uh, and, uh, there were people escaping.
Lisette Shashoua (01:50:41):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (01:50:43):
Victor was out on bond.
Lisette Shashoua (01:50:46):
Yeah, [Arabic 01:50:46].
Valentine Balass (01:50:46):
Any time ... Yeah, he told me. He, he told me, [Arabic 01:50:54]. And, uh, so and on bond, any time they can ring him, any time they can say he did this, and he did that. So I, I wanted to leave. I didn't care. So I told him people were leaving. I told him, "We have to leave." Because they opened the north for the Jews, they can go on a vacation. So at that time, the first of September, we left the house as it is. Everything was still there, even food in the fridge. And we, we took a taxi and we left. And then Sami and my mother-in-law followed me, and for [inaudible 01:51:58] my sister-in-law's brothers came and [Arabic 01:52:02]. And I didn't stay in a hotel, by the way. I went right to the rent. They have huts covered with leaves.
Lisette Shashoua (01:52:17):
That was their hotel?
Valentine Balass (01:52:20):
That was our hotel. No shower, no bath, no nothing. Six days later, supposedly it was arranged that we were leaving. Sami went, I don't know talk to whom. We were supposed to be leaving, and we were going. I said, "Sami, what are we doing? Why are we going towards, towards [Salahadeen 01:52:52], towards Baghdad?"
Lisette Shashoua (01:52:53):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (01:52:56):
"Don't worry. Don't worry. It's okay." [It goes 01:53:00] more. " Sami, what's wrong with you? Why are we going this way?" "Don't worry. Don't worry." I said, "Don't tell me, 'Don't worry.' I worry. Why are we going this way?" All of a sudden the driver of the car ... we took a jeep and there was 14 of us in that jeep, and we were all going towards, towards Salahadeen. You get into the Iraqi government. Where we are, we are in-
Lisette Shashoua (01:53:39):
Kurdistan.
Valentine Balass (01:53:39):
... uh, the Kurdish. So the driver said, "Look, there is the border of the Iraqi and us." I swear to you, he said that, I started screaming. I went hysterical. Really hysterical. I said, "Stop right now or I'm opening the door. I'm throwing myself out." So he stopped the car. I said to Sami, "Are you crazy? Are you out of your mind? Listen to me." I said, "This way. I go this way. I will not go." You know, he tells me it rang him a bell at that minute. So he went to see [Manir 01:54:34]. He had someone there. But it was a blessing, I tell you why. [Salah Mahdi Amash 01:54:41], which was the minister ... the military minister, came to search in the north of Iraq. And he went to the hotel in Salahadeen at the ... they made people go back. You heard they, they went back. And he came to search in their bed where we were staying.
Lisette Shashoua (01:55:08):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (01:55:09):
But we were not there. We were in the car. By the time Sami came back, the guy he spoke to told him, "Go back." So we went back but Salah Mahdi Amash already left. So we went back but they told us, "Don't stay in the hut near the stream. Stay upstairs." There was a stable for horses, that's where we stayed. We stayed there, and we were waiting. All of a sudden I've seen a [shimshina 01:55:55]. And then I've seen a shimshina with a [gird 01:56:00] going this way and coming back that way.
PART 4 OF 5 ENDS [01:56:04]
Valentine Balass (01:56:03):
...The Kurd, going this way and coming back that way. So I told uh, Victor and Sammy, “I'm gonna go to Nasheem Sheena, I think he has a way out.” While we were in the stable, the beds were filthy but who cared? I mean uh, at one point Forelle was mad uh, her son, Benny had got err, sick where he had a bad cold and she wanted to go to Salahaddin to stay in a hotel, and I was telling Victor, “I will not move from here I will not, I will not, I will not.” So, uh, anyway, we, we, we stayed there which was good. I saw Nasheem Sheena and I saw with him a Kurd, so I said, then all the way I saw him from the window. And I said, “I'm gonna go to him and I'm going to hold him by the neck and I'm gonna tell him you better tell us how you're getting out we want to get out.”
Valentine Balass (01:57:08):
And uh, he told me eh, “Why are you doing this? It's enough that we are caught up here. At least let people leave uh, at least let them get out.” They didn't like me. They basically didn't let me which was stupid. Anyway, so, we waited, and Sammy was trying, he was trying. He went to a Kurdish guy and uh, he was uh, begging him. But what happened at that time, Israel got in touch with the Kurds and they were telling them to help the Jews if they can. And what happened from Tehran, Nasheem Sheena, who they were su- uh, they wouldn't let me touch, had all the details of how to get out because they sent people to him telling him to help Jews get out and they said, “He's a good man he will help.” He did not help, not only he did not help, he knew we were there which no harm would have come to him... Look, he's dead, I don't like to talk about him now. But he didn't say, “Come.” On the contrary, he said, “If anyone goes near the balassus, I will kill him.”
Lisette Shashoua (01:58:43):
Why?
Valentine Balass (01:58:46):
He di- He took out his car, he took out I don't know what he took out with him, he took whatever he wanted, and us, we are staying there not knowing how to get out, we didn't know how. We had no clue, we were just, you know, jumping. Anyway, what happened is people were caught in Salahaddin in the hotel, they brought them to prison, and so, Israel told the ki- uh, the Kurds, to get the people out whoever they can. So this guy came to us. He said, “Listen, we'll get you out.” Sammy was trying by the way. That's how eh eh at the time he said, “Go back and we can move back and whatever.” But uh... They were trying to get us out, the people who were in the North, further than Salahaddin after Shaqlawa in the Kurdish section. So, he came, he said, “We'll get you out.” He said, “All I want, I have a daughter who needs medication,” and I don't know what kind of a disease I don't remember she has, “if you know anybody in London, we are sending her, we have...” I said, “Sure, I have an Uncle there, I'll do everything in my power to help her, just get us out.” He said, “We are getting you out.”
Valentine Balass (02:00:34):
Apparently, Israel got in touch with them to get the people who are not in the Iraqi section, which is after Shaqlawa, can get out. And so, they brought us a big Jeep, we all went in in the night without making a noise, they took us back and which I was scared but it was only for 10 minutes. We got off, I see a whole bunch of other Iraqis there, [foreign language 02:01:12], and I don't know who, and then the bus took us again and through to Haji Omeran. And who comes? [foreign language 02:01:28]. I swear, even when I imagining now, I feel like tears coming to my eyes. He was dressed in white, shiny white, he was so handsome. And I felt I'm seeing an angel, I swear I thought I was seeing an angel, not a human being. And he said, “Look, we are going to get you out. We do not want anything from you, money, or otherwise. We ask you one thing, if ever in the United Nations they come and they ask you, 'Did the Kurds help you, are they good people?' We want you to say that we did help you.” I said, “We definitely will, we definitely will.” I was, I'm looking at an angel, not t- a human being I swear to you.
Valentine Balass (02:02:46):
And so then, they made us go all by bus I saw a lot of people there, I don't know how many of us were there. They took us by bus, and, we crossed the border. Now, as we crossed the border, believe it or not what happened to me. The door to the bus I was riding flew wide open, and I was sitting here and this door opened. And I was holding to the door, I was being pushed out w- by the wind. And Forelle, my sister- in-law, she saw me she started screaming, “Stop, stop!” And she was holding me because I was gonna fly out into the valley. And, and she was screaming, “Stop, stop!” So he stopped and Victor was sitting in the back with his mother, he became white. I- I was gonna fly out, I was really gonna fly out.
Lisette Shashoua (02:04:02):
Where were you now, in The Iran already or not yet?
Valentine Balass (02:04:05):
I- We just crossed the border. We are in The Iran, now we are in the Iran. And uh, and then, we went to a hotel there. We stayed one night.
Lisette Shashoua (02:04:19):
Where was that?
Valentine Balass (02:04:21):
Uh, uh, what do they call it, uh, I forgot. Han...
Lisette Shashoua (02:04:25):
Hanna?
Valentine Balass (02:04:25):
Hanna.
Lisette Shashoua (02:04:25):
Hanna.
Valentine Balass (02:04:29):
I don't remember.
Lisette Shashoua (02:04:30):
Hanna.
Valentine Balass (02:04:31):
Anyway, and then we took the train to Tehran.
Lisette Shashoua (02:04:35):
What was the date, uh, of your departure?
Valentine Balass (02:04:37):
We skipped September 12th, 1970. It was a miracle.
Lisette Shashoua (02:04:47):
So then you went to Iran, to Tehran.
Valentine Balass (02:04:50):
We went to Iran, we stayed as uh, everybody else who [inaudible 02:04:56], and then I tried to uh, to contact my family, my parents. So, uh, I wanted to call them but uh, someone there told me, “Don't because if you call them like this, they'll have a shock, and it's not good.” All of a sudden, I'm out, I mean uh... So, uh, they said the best thing is to send them a telegram and to ask them to call. This way they can absorb it, you know? And uh, um, at the time uh, uh, we- we went to the uh, there's a [foreign language 02:05:46], I forgot his name...
Lisette Shashoua (02:05:53):
[foreign language 02:05:53]?
Valentine Balass (02:05:54):
Um...
Lisette Shashoua (02:05:55):
Where, in, in-
Valentine Balass (02:05:56):
[foreign language 02:05:56]. He tried to take us I said, “No, they'll be calling here.” He said, “No, you come to my house and I'm going to tell them uh, how to uh, reach you.” So we went to his house, and my parents called, they couldn't believe I was out. My father called my mother, he told, “Come to the office,” because they wanted to talk to me. My brothers were in the office, and uh, he told my mother, “Uh I, you- I have a big surprise for you, come.” So, uh, she went to the office and uh, they spoke to me, and uh, after that, we stayed two weeks, they gave us a [foreign language 02:06:45], which is a [foreign language 02:06:46], and uh, we went to Israel.
Lisette Shashoua (02:06:50):
And any- Who helped? Was there a Jewish agency that helped in the Iran? How- Who was doing the, help?
Valentine Balass (02:06:57):
It was [foreign language 02:06:58]. It was a Jewish agency who was helping the Jews and they were taking them to Israel to live. But uh, uh, they were even spending all them, uh, to, to, to live there. But uh, I told them from the beginning I'm not uh, staying in uh, in Israel I'm going to Canada my family's there. And uh, and so, uh, we went to Israel and from Israel I had an immigration which was in Lebanon, they didn't give it to me. They were trying to help Jews over 65 to get out of Iraq and if they say they help Jews who escaped, they wouldn't. So, um, my father had to make me a new immigration and uh, I came to Canada, uh, December 26th to the biggest snow storm of the century (laughing).
Lisette Shashoua (02:08:15):
Oh, boy. And how long were you in Israel for, you stayed in Israel?
Valentine Balass (02:08:19):
I stayed in Israel 'til, uh, eh, December 22nd. I stayed in Iran 'til the end of September, I went to Israel, I stayed with my aunt, uh, which was in my Grandfather's house. And uh, and then uh, we waited for our immigration.
Lisette Shashoua (02:08:44):
To Canada?
Valentine Balass (02:08:45):
To Canada. And actually Amil was working on it, my brother, but uh, my father told him this guy was uh, Marcus, he was su- a promise to make my immigration.
Lisette Shashoua (02:09:00):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (02:09:01):
Because they sent my immigration to Lebanon.
Lisette Shashoua (02:09:04):
Oh...
Valentine Balass (02:09:04):
But what's the use?
Lisette Shashoua (02:09:07):
I see.
Valentine Balass (02:09:07):
So they had to make a new one and Marcus, he promised him that he would make me, uh, he was a minister. And uh-
Lisette Shashoua (02:09:18):
Here in Canada?
Valentine Balass (02:09:20):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (02:09:20):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (02:09:21):
So when I arrived in Canada which was funny, I thought they did it to everybody, uh, they all did, “Welcome to Canada, we are happy to have you uh, v- uh, come live with us and this and that.” I didn't know because Marcus, he told them.
Lisette Shashoua (02:09:39):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (02:09:40):
Yeah, and uh, because he met Amil after that, he told him, "I hope you're happy your sister is here, she arrived December 22nd on flight uh, it was uh, the Belgium Airline, uh, t- 222."
Lisette Shashoua (02:10:00):
Wow.
Valentine Balass (02:10:01):
555, I don't remember, something like that. And uh...
Lisette Shashoua (02:10:09):
And when you escaped, were you, what could you take with you, clothes, money, jewelry, what..?
Valentine Balass (02:10:15):
When we escaped, I took one luggage like this, change of clothes for the children, for me, for Victor, one blanket, and one pillow. Everything else stayed.
Lisette Shashoua (02:10:33):
Jewelry, money?
Valentine Balass (02:10:36):
My jewelry I gave it to very good friends of ours and they did send it to me.
Lisette Shashoua (02:10:44):
Christian or Jewish?
Valentine Balass (02:10:46):
I don't want to bring their name; They are Christians.
Lisette Shashoua (02:10:49):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And were you able to send money from Baghdad? Two Muslim from one Christian.
Valentine Balass (02:10:58):
At that point?
Lisette Shashoua (02:10:59):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (02:11:00):
Who wants his head cut off?
Lisette Shashoua (02:11:02):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (02:11:02):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (02:11:03):
So you weren't able to send money.
Valentine Balass (02:11:05):
No, we didn't, we w- uh, before that maybe there was a little bit out but not much. I mean uh, who, who wants his head cut off?
Lisette Shashoua (02:11:17):
So when you came out you had no money outside that you had sent before or anything?
Valentine Balass (02:11:22):
No, but there were people my father knew, my Uncle knew and they told them I, I'm there I mean uh, [foreign language 02:11:28], uh, He's my aunt's uh, cousin.
Lisette Shashoua (02:11:32):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (02:11:33):
And he came, he told me, “You didn't even identify yourself.” I said, “What am I to say?” He said, “We are helping everybody, uh, but you're family.” And uh, he, he helped us. He took us, he helped us, he, yeah. I...
Lisette Shashoua (02:11:53):
Financially?
Valentine Balass (02:11:53):
We went to Iran to a few places, by the way we visited your uncle, they invited us. And uh, and then uh, that's it.
Lisette Shashoua (02:12:05):
So when you came to Montreal, you had no money with you, you had no money, you had nothing?
Valentine Balass (02:12:10):
There was very little money that we sent, uh, at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (02:12:19):
Okay, what was your, what were your first impressions, uh, when you arrived to Canada, you were saying?
Valentine Balass (02:12:26):
I arrived in Canada to the biggest snow storm of the century, it was really bad but, uh, you know, um, my father knew there was a snow storm. My plane maybe arrived at 6:30 or 7:00, he was at the airport at noon and he told Amil, “Me and momma are taking a taxi and going to the airport, do you want to come or not?” Because they were saying it's a snow storm, and they wanted to come to the airport to meet us.
Valentine Balass (02:13:01):
So, he was at the airport and uh, Amil uh, and my mother and Amil and m- and uh, Morris was by himself. And Wilson got lost in the snow storm because there were roads closed and uh, until we went to Westmount Square, my parents lived there, we went there and uh, I loved the snow and uh, uh, my brother Ilyas had an apartment, at uh, Rockhill, so we went we stayed there. Charlie and uh, uh, Ralph stayed with my parents, and uh, until we, uh, we got our apartment.
Lisette Shashoua (02:13:51):
And Joe stayed with you?
Valentine Balass (02:13:54):
Baby Joe was with us at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (02:14:02):
Okay, once you got here did you join synagogue, Jewish organization? What was life like when you first arrived-
Valentine Balass (02:14:10):
It was-
Lisette Shashoua (02:14:10):
And one more question?
Valentine Balass (02:14:11):
I'll tell you it was very difficult. First of all, eh, it was difficult because of the snow, we are not used to snow. And the second thing, I had a very bad sinus in Israel. Even at the time, you know Doctor Corrine who was Victor's uncle, he told me, "Don't go yet, wait for this," uh, because I couldn't take penicillin I- I'm allergic to penicillin, and uh, we came here, and I couldn't go out because uh, it was a very, very bad sinus, it was my whole face. So, uh, I was going from garage to garage, from the garage at the Rockhill to the garage in Westmount Square. And uh...
Lisette Shashoua (02:15:16):
Did you join a synagogue? Did you see people here?
Valentine Balass (02:15:19):
Well, uh, of course. After that, we joined the Spanish and Portuguese synagogue, which is uh, every Iraqi synagogue, and uh, and that was it.
Lisette Shashoua (02:15:34):
And you, there were people you were mixing with already here? There- You know, did you mi- did you meet new friends, uh...
Valentine Balass (02:15:41):
I knew them, I knew lots of people, uh, here. M- The main thing was my family, my parents, my brothers, everybody was here. It wasn't, uh...
Lisette Shashoua (02:15:55):
How many yeas were you separated from your parents and your brothers?
Valentine Balass (02:15:59):
My parents left in 1958.
Lisette Shashoua (02:16:03):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (02:16:06):
And, uh, I came to visit- eh, no, sorry, '57, they left in 1957. I came to visit them in 1958, I came alone, I had only Charlie. And then I went back. In 1962, I came again to visit them, uh, when my brother Wilson got married, uh, and I brought Charlie and Ralph with me. And then I went back again, uh at that time it was okay, look. And then, uh, nobody could get out anyway.
Lisette Shashoua (02:16:51):
Yeah, Jews couldn't leave the country after '62.
Valentine Balass (02:16:55):
I what?
Lisette Shashoua (02:16:56):
The Jews couldn't leave the country after '62.
Valentine Balass (02:17:00):
No, we couldn't.
Lisette Shashoua (02:17:05):
Okay, uh, now we have some final questions. Um, how did you preserve your Sephardic heritage here in the new country? Traditions, celebrations, prayers, food, language?
Valentine Balass (02:17:19):
First of all, uh, during the uh, festivities, I mean whatever we need to do was done by my mother. So, we went there, and uh, we did uh, everything as should be. And, the synagogue, we used to go to the synagogue on Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, on the, uh, Passover, and uh, Succoth, uh, we used to come and uh, eh, it was something amazing because uh, first of all it's not the same as Iraq as you know, it was different. But uh...
Lisette Shashoua (02:18:03):
In what way?
Valentine Balass (02:18:07):
In what way? Look, it's not the same tradition. Tradition of the Iraqis is one, tradition of the Ashkenazis is different.
Lisette Shashoua (02:18:18):
Yeah.
Valentine Balass (02:18:19):
But uh, there, Iraqis are Sephardic so they preserve the Sephardic tradition. The synagogue, the prayers, the, the way they read the Hebrew prayers, it's all Sephardic.
Lisette Shashoua (02:18:34):
And the food? The food is uh...
Valentine Balass (02:18:38):
The what?
Lisette Shashoua (02:18:39):
The food here that-
Valentine Balass (02:18:40):
The food, we always cook our own food. I didn't know how to cook much. But my mother, before coming to live in Canada, she used to go down to the kitchen every day with the cook and learn how to cook this meal and that meal and the other meal because why? Before they immigrated in fif- They immigrated in '57, in '56 she came to visit and they invited her with the Iraqi food which she didn't know, she had no idea how to cook it. So she had a book, she used to go out to the kitchen with the cook and mark down everything and learn how to cook the Iraqi food. And when I came here, uh, I used to call her, and I used to ask her, “How do you cook this, how do you cook that?” And uh, we learned, we like, we like the, the food we are used to eating.
Lisette Shashoua (02:19:50):
Okay, how, how do you see your identity? What, what is your, uh, how do you, d- describe yourself in terms of your identity?
Valentine Balass (02:20:00):
I am a Jewish-Canadian of Jewish-Iraqi origin.
Lisette Shashoua (02:20:12):
And d- do you consider yourself a refugee, or a m... migrant? What do you consider yourself?
Valentine Balass (02:20:18):
Excuse me?
Lisette Shashoua (02:20:19):
A refugee or an immigrant?
Valentine Balass (02:20:21):
No, immigrant. Canada has been very good to us. Uh, I mean uh, you can't deny what's good to you and what's not. Canada has been very good to us.
Lisette Shashoua (02:20:38):
And where do you consider home?
Valentine Balass (02:20:41):
Now?
Lisette Shashoua (02:20:42):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Valentine Balass (02:20:43):
This is my home, but I love Israel. I love to visit, I... I- I love to go there but, you know, my whole family's here, my sons are here, my, my grandchildren are here, my brothers are here. So, I mean I have family in Israel, but uh, I mean I- I love to visit, I love to go every year, but uh, if I can, I will.
Lisette Shashoua (02:21:26):
And what identity do you want to pass on to your children and grandchildren?
Valentine Balass (02:21:34):
In what way, what do you mean?
Lisette Shashoua (02:21:35):
The identity you want to pass on, what do you want them to feel?
Valentine Balass (02:21:39):
They know. They have their identity, they are of origin Iraqi Jews who are Canadians and uh, who feel they are Canadians but we all love Israel, that's uh, we all love Israel, we care about Israel, we care about what happens to Israel, uh, but who knows? They say every Jew will finally stay in Israel, it will happen one day.
Lisette Shashoua (02:22:17):
(Laughs) Which language do you speak to the children? What language do you speak to them?
Valentine Balass (02:22:23):
Jewish-Arabic. And uh, mixed with English. I must say, you get used to speaking in English so, uh, you speak uh...
Lisette Shashoua (02:22:37):
Okay, last question. What message would you like to give to anyone who might listen to this interview?
Valentine Balass (02:22:48):
I believe anyone who can listen to uh, this interview is liberated, is not in bondage, is not captured, uh, is free, lives a, uh, free life, they should be happy, uh, but what- by what they have, and appreciate Canada for taking us in and making us one of their own. And at the same time, we must say we love Israel, we want it to prosper because no Jew anywhere in the world is worth anything without Israel.
Lisette Shashoua (02:23:44):
That's wonderful. I wanna thank you so much for this wonderful, enlightening, exciting, thrilling, interview. Thank you very much, Valentine.
Valentine Balass (02:23:55):
You're very welcome.
PART 5 OF 5 ENDS [02:23:56]