Interview date: 8/13/2017

Location: Montreal, Canada

Interviewer: David Langer

Total time: 28:05

Odette Masliyah: Born in Baghdad. Arrived in Israel in 1967(?)

[00:00:16] Interviewer: Alright, so thank you. You made it. 

[00:00:20] Odette Masliyah: I made it. 

[00:00:23] Interviewer: Um, are we rolling? Okay. So first of all let's just start out with what is your name and what, what grade did you leave Frank Iny?

[00:00:33] Odette Masliyah: My name is Odette Sayah [?] in English. I left Frank Iny in 1967. I finished high school, grade five. So fulfilled the whole formula. 

[00:00:46] Interviewer: And um, let's talk about the uh, the movies, you know the twist, the Joe Schuker's bar mitzvah movies to start out with. So in the wedding footage, there's a wedding that has taken place at Frank Iny, I believe. Anyway...

[00:01:07] Odette Masliyah: I don't remember the wedding. Yeah. 

[00:01:10] Interviewer: Well anyways, after everybody eats and, all of a sudden all of you kids are doing the twist. 

[00:01:17] Odette Masliyah: Right. 

[00:01:18] Interviewer: What are a bunch of ids in Baghdad, how come you're - what's going on here?

[00:01:23] Odette Masliyah: Well this is, I remember, we were in our teenage years between 1961 to '63 and we always had parties apart from weddings and other things but the same grade, boys and girls well, one of them will invite to a party and we will dance and the twist was, at that time, Chubby Checker and all of them, and we loved it. [00:01:48] So we danced. Uh, we were very much westernized that way when it came also to music and what's the latest in, in North America. And uh, so yeah, and the parties were very much everybody knew each other, including the families. There was always a feast of foods that, to be eaten and, and prepared by the hostess. [00:02:13] And yeah, great fun. There were even some serious relationships, maybe some boyfriend-girlfriends among some of these couples. 

[00:02:23] Interviewer: Did it last? 

[00:02:23] Odette Masliyah: Uh, not many but some did and good relationships yeah. 

[00:02:29] Interviewer: And what about Joe Schuker's bar mitzvah? How much do you remember of that?

[00:02:36] Odette Masliyah: Um, you know, unfortunately I don't remember too much. But only when we saw that film I uh, it's kind of triggered some memories but mostly just the party I think. The bar mitzvah, as you could see in the film from, for all boys anyway, was done in a very informal manner compared to nowadays what boys do. [00:03:01] You know, the whole service in the synagogue and a huge big party. Uh, usually it's done in the home and the chief rabbi will come in and put on the tefillin on the boy and they say a prayer and, of course, the whole family is present and after that, just basically uh, invite your friends and enjoy. That was uh, and it was usually done on the Thursday as well. Not on the Shabbat as uh, you know. That was how it was done for the boys. 

[00:03:33] Interviewer: I like that tradition. 

[00:03:34] Odette Masliyah: Very much so. Very much so. 

[00:03:37] Interviewer: I think that's great. The big fancy - anyway, we'll talk about that later. Um, how many kids in the um, in the bar mitzvah footage would have been from Frank Iny?

[00:03:48] Odette Masliyah: Uh...well, if it's, I would say it uh, a minimum of 20 in that class, Joe Schuker's class will be but then there were additional friends of the family so I would say at least, they could be 50, they could be 50. I think some of the families were there as well too.

[00:04:13] Interviewer: And one of the things many people have been talking about is uh, how important languages were and, and education in the school. Why would Arabic have been enough for you? Because that's the language of the country you're in. 

[00:04:31] Odette Masliyah: Okay, um, well, you have to understand, it's, it was a private school, number one. It wasn't a public school. Uh, and I think well, there was l'Alliance Française which was quite prominent in the Middle East. I think [inaudible] way back from after the war, the Second World War, started sending teachers, materials, curriculum to all the Middle Eastern countries, Jewish communities, to be instructed because they felt that they needed that. [00:05:05] And I think that was already a very big boost. However, the Iraqi-Jewish community was highly literate, even from before our generation. Our, our two, three generations before they were highly, highly with, you know, they were, there were  lot of girl schools and boy schools. [00:05:27] There were yeshivot from 19 -1800, late 1800 for both girls and boys, not just - even though everything was orthodoxy. But the girls also went to. And I do know people older than my mother who were very skilled in French already because they went to l'Alliance Française in Mosul, in Basra and in Kirkuk. It's only after the '50's that these communities all moved to Baghdad and whatever is left of the schools in Baghdad. [00:05:56] Now even this weekend all our classmates and friends are talking how fortunate we are that we have immigrated not only to Canada but survived in a big way because of our education. If we didn't have those educations we would be working but we will be also struggling a lot. [00:06:20] We had, nobody had any problem getting admitted in the universities around the world, not just in North America. They went to France, thy went to Britain, they went to Brazil uh, and....

[00:06:33] Interviewer: Hang on, hang on one second. Hold that thought. 

[00:06:38] [technical adjustment]

[00:06:52] Interviewer: That was a very, a really good response. Can you start that again? I'd like you to rephrase what you said. You said, "There were so many of us who have been talking this weekend about how fortunate we were that we got the education that we did because..." So can you just pick that up?

[00:07:10] Odette Masliyah: So...so, in fact, most of us, nearly all of us this weekend, we have been talking to our friends who are here for the reunion and we said how fortunate we are to have been educated and received that education in such a manner before leaving Baghdad, or leaving Iraq. [00:07:31] Because none of us had any problem getting whatever university. In fact, we were even higher level of education that counterpart in Britain or the US or Canada. A lot, and nearly, I would say statistically 80% to 90% have become professional, engineers, doctors and lawyers. [00:07:55] And whatever, whatever country they lived in, they spoke the languages. And they integrated in that soti - society. Integration is very important because you can speak a language on a daily basis just to buy groceries but to understand the process of thought, of your Canadian counterpart or American counterpart, or Israeli counterpart, it's another, it's another skill. [00:08:22] And I think, I think we managed that and it made our life much, much easier. I will also add on, because I do know, uh, we had a special principal - Stad Abdallah Obidiah - who, I think, was very strict in his vision and also in his expectation of his students at that time. [00:08:44] Uh, it wasn't just pat on the shoulder like nowadays with the students. And I know some, maybe some students resented that but I think in the long run it worked. Because even the students who might have struggled, they still came out with English, French and Arabic. They still came out with good math, good science and good arts. [00:09:07] And so even those people have attested that, yes, this, this school gave them a really good rounded education. 

[00:09:16] Interviewer: And how did the school, or how did the principal encourage students to excel?

[00:09:22] Odette Masliyah: Well, there was no encouragement, there were marks. You excel because you have to pass and not just pass, but you make big marks. Elementaries, elementary school, if you fail...we were always marked. Even like, in grade two. So if you get 49 out of 50 on a subject you have failed that subject. [00:09:44] So at the end of the year, if you failed that subject they give you another trials over the summer to take the test again. If you fail them, you fail the whole year. You have to repeat the whole year. Now this is nonexistent, obviously nowadays or whatever. But, and it is harsh. I know it is harsh but, you know, again, it wasn't the end of the, of the, you know, not so many student, you know, they made it. Not so many students. [00:10:13] There was a lot of tutoring over the summer and there was extra classes you take after school as well, mainly in French we took. So we, we ended our, our day at 3:30. We had a break of about an hour to have a snack and then from 4:30 till 6:00 we had additional French classes because our principal believed that we needed that so that we can make the language more strengthened, you know? [inaudible] you know?[00:10:45] And again, if I do compare it, I'm sure there are lots of very good schools here in Canada but if I do compare it, that is nonexistent because, number one, the kids don't want to stay long days. The parents wouldn't want that. But I always said, if you want to play piano well, you gotta practice. Yes, you're good at it but unless you practice and you put the time in, you're not gonna have the benefits. [00:11:13] I mean, we excelled in French literature in uh, in the eleventh grade uh, fluently. Shakespeare? Fluently. Right? Wrote reports, wrote anything. We did the brevet in uh, so that will be 50...uh, 12...11, 12...tenth, in the tenth grade, the brevet which was a foreign exam from France so all the material came from France and we did that to pass it. [00:11:47] So that if we have to apply for university later on we got the certificate. A lot of our students passed GCE, A-level and B-level in whichever subjects, mostly it was English, some in Arabic and math. So the only discouragement between, as a student self-esteem or treatment in those days is that, you know, nobody will encourage and say, "Oh, you know, you can do better in math. You can do better in geography." But that was how the parents were too. Okay? [00:12:24] But that was the times. I'm sure in Canada if I have to compare it, whatever the teacher says, it goes. 

[00:12:31] Interviewer: What's you favourite memory from Frank Iny school, or your time at the Frank Iny school? Give me a few. 

[00:12:37] Odette Masliyah: Well, socialization was the best. Playing tricks on our, unfortunately, on our teachers also. Innocent tricks, innocent tricks. Um, uh, okay so I'll tell you the first one. The first one was we had a snack bar where, you know, parents end sandwiches of the kids to eat for lunch but we had a snack bar for recess to go. [00:13:00] And the best thing we could get is a pita filled with amba. Amba is the pickled mango, it's a traditional Iraqi thing and it is just yummy . It is not too hot and it just kind of, slips down from your pita. That was just great. Playing tricks on our - well, some of them were very sweet uh, Stad Ahmin [sp?] for example, he was a very sweet math teacher and I know a lot of us will still remember him. [00:13:29] And he worked very hard, it was a very conscientious teacher. Taught very well but he was not a firm teacher. So the kids, when we go out for recess, they start erasing some of the formulas on the board and when we come back to class they'll say, "Sir, sir, sir, what's this? I don't understand it." And poor Stad, I mean, he gets so confused, he doesn't know what to do. [00:13:54] Uh, that's, that's some. The boys did a few here and there, you know, but hey got slapped for it, I think. 

[00:14:02] Interviewer: We've heard. We've heard some...some of those stories. So what about, talk about, you also talked about your favourite memories being the socialization. Tell me about that. 

[00:14:15] Odette Masliyah: You know, it was like a family, you know, when you go to school. It's kind of, you know everybody. You know your parents know their parents as well too. Uh, so you know, you catch up on thing on who's knitting [?] now and who's going out with who. But just innocent jokes. I remember everybody was making jokes. I know Khamat Saudai [sp?], one of my friends, also, he was a little bit of a mischievous but in a good way mischievous boy. [00:14:42] He always told us all kinds of jokes, jokes and tricks. Um and uh...yeah, we took pictures. We went out to some trips uh, also. The school took us to some trips which, in most cases, we didn't go with our parents. Like Habbaniyah Lake and uh...I call it the Maghdalbah vell [??], I can't remember and the Samarra too. Because that was just a safe, a safe thing to do because we were all together in the busses with our teachers. [00:15:21] Uh, the other things was, I , I also was the end of the year in grade 12, when ever class graduated in grade 12 they had to choose to put up a play for the graduation night. It wasn't even a day, it was a night where all the parents are invited and uh, some, some of them were Shakespearian plays or a French play, you know, from uh, Balzac or one of these things. [00:15:51] And I do remember, and I've seen some picture, I don't have any, but the girls were wearing all these Victorian uh, yeah, they got, they go the school, we go makeup people to come in. I had - we had uh, in my class, uh, we had an Iraqi play actually where I dressed, and some of my fellow friends dressed as an Arab woman, a Muslim woman with the black hadoul there but, but our makeup guy put a lot of makeup on us so we looked so good. [00:16:24] And I was the matchmaker, I was trying to matchmake. You know, that was, that was the thing. So it was very funny. We have, we have pictures of that too. 

[00:16:34] Interviewer: So let's talk a little bit more about the socialization. I mean, here we're, today is your third day of the reunion, people have come from all over the world, this is the first reunion and it is quite a special kind of group of people. I mean, the fact that, we were saying before, we, I'm not, I have a couple of friends from high school, but not that many. So what is it? Why is it that, you know, that this group of people who went to Frank Iny have, have stayed friends and...

[00:17:07] Odette Masliyah: Okay, and I also wondered about it. You're right. You know, when I compare notes with my Canadian friends when they go to reunion it's true, they might have one or two very good friends. I think two factors are there. The community is very old. It's like, you're born in this community and you kind of, know there is about 3000 years of history on your shoulders because everybody kind of know everybody else. [00:17:35] It's a very familiar place but also because at least in my generation I felt very um, uh, isolated by fear from the outside world. So that was, that was the only place where we felt secure and loved and we called bonding, brotherhood, sisterhood, whatever. We felt it was, it was, that's where we can play and that's where we can have fun without worrying about anything else. [00:18:04] It distracted us from what was happening on the outside. I also can say that among even when my kinds went to school there isn't all these nonsense of meanness and this one says this. I don't know why it happens among kids sometimes. You know, we, we acted up I'm sure, some of us acted up but everything defuses very quickly. Nobody was mean to anybody else. It wasn't encouraged. [00:18:33] There wasn't a big deal about anything else. There was no issue because the big issue was everybody doesn’t like us from the outside. And our, our life and safety is in jeopardy. SO when you have that, even when I came to Canada and I saw, like I was young and I saw how some people uh, socialized, I felt I was more mature. [00:18:58] I asked myself why, why I am like that? Why I am not acting like I'm 18 or 20 years old? And I think it's because I have experienced different life. I didn't, I couldn't afford just saying, "My room is too small. MY room, my bedroom is too..." You know. Or, "I want to paint my bedroom pink." Like, I never even, you never even think about it because survival was at stake there. [00:19:23] And you have seen your parents too, even though they didn't talk to us a lot about how, how we're gonna make it out there was always worry and fear there. 

[00:19:34] Interviewer: Let's talk a little bit more about the fear. What are those things that are affecting the community? What's happening? Give me a sketch of what, what is causing that fear in you as a young student?

[00:19:48] Odette Masliyah: Well, okay so there was, there was always the radio at home because people obviously heard the news and most of our news were the Iraqi news. And uh, so 1956 was the first one when the king was killed and we had TV’s by then too so we watched how the king was killed. It was vey harsh, you know. [00:20:12] Of course, politically we don't understand, you know, one group wants to overtake another group but just the way things were done people were pulled, dead bodies on the street, things like that. And the chanting, you know. I still, when I see it, I can't watch news Middle-East or otherwise when there is that mob chanting against another something in a cruel way. [00:20:41] I think as a kid that really affects you. Nowadays we won't let a kid see that. I'm sure my parents sheltered us too from a lot of things but you can't, you can't not hear the news. There was a lot of anti-Israel slogans always, always on that. So even though we were not connected to Israel then but you know, deep down, it's you too. Once their slogans against the Zionism, right away, you know, and, and all our families who left in '50's, you know my - there's seven, six-seven brothers on my father's side, there's no contact with them. [00:21:24] Which we understand because that, we were, well they were the enemy country but nothing. Like, so, so how would one react to all of sudden when you know there's a family in Toronto and that's it. There's a wall there, you can't communicate. You can't even whisper it.  Because if you say, "I have an uncle in Israel." They can say, oh you're a spy or you're communicating with Israel in some sort. 

[00:21:52] Interviewer: Now as a student are you feeling this yourself or are you getting it from your parents?

[00:21:57] Odette Masliyah: I felt it myself. As I said, our parents who were very, very little elaborated on things except we have to leave done day, that's why we're studying French and English. We have to go to university, we have to be employable, right? And, and just that the family, I mean, I was five, six years old, seven years old, the family, we know some of our families went to Israel. [00:22:26] My brother left when, when he was 15 to London and I was uh, two years younger and he stayed and by then the Iraqis who were abroad if they don't come back within six months they, they're - the Jewish Iraqis their citizenship was revoked. So for ten years we didn't see him. And my mother didn't see him. [00:22:55] So that's again, we never talked about it but we felt it. What is it to a mother not seeing - and we never, you know, and it was by then, after '67, things got worse so the idea that we'll never make it out was way more realistic by then. 

[00:23:12] Interviewer: So in '67 how bad did it get?

[00:23:15] Odette Masliyah: Very bad. Uh, I was doing, that was my grade 12 and I was doing a baccalaureate uh, so we go to  public, to another public school, all of us to be part of it and the Frank Iny girls, we were only girls in that school, I remember we were on a balcony there and so, and there is a teacher, Muslim teacher, who monitors as the girls were doing their tests. [00:23:41] Oh, and before we went to the balcony we were all in a big uh, gathering garden there. And because that was in 1967 and boy, the other girls were looking at us with very hateful eyes because, you know, by then, you know, the news came out that Israel, whatever, beat or this. [00:24:04] So they were very [inaudible] fine, we kept very quiet among ourselves. So we went and just toward the end that day Abder Nasser, in Egypt, made a very heated speech against Israel and asked people in every Arab country to raise against Zionism and da-da-da and all this. So what happened is that there were - so then demonstrations started in the street and all of a sudden that was me. [00:24:34] I hear chanting again and the boys, demonstration were mostly men, the boys started climbing over the walls of that school where we were. Luckily we just finished our exam so I literally handed my file to the thing and I started running. I started crying and running. I didn't know. I just thought for myself, "They're gonna kill us. They're gonna be after us." [00:25:02] You know how when you are so anxious you think they know you, oh, you are Jewish, I am coming after you. So I ran from that school to the house without looking back. And I, when I got home my cousin was there with my mom and he still remembers. He said, "We didn't know what was happening." I , I, I bent over the ringer, you know the ring, the house ring like a minute was way too long. I just wanted to get inside. [00:25:32] Nobody came after me but that was my, my way of thinking. But they climbed over the walls, I don't know why. You know, obviously there were only girls there, I don't know why they were doing that. But that's, again, it's a mob thing and uh, and I still jump if I'm sitting in a movie theatre or a public place and, you know, some loud noise all of a sudden behind me, even if a chair falls, I just go like this. [00:26:01] Just very instinctive. So when we got to Israel um, after we escaped we stayed at my aunts house for a while until we found rentals and, again, every time somebody come to knock on the door, we jump because that was - in Iraq, that was somebody. If your uncle is coming, your cousin is coming, you will know ahead of time. But if somebody is knocking on the door you think they Mohabarat is coming to get, they got the men mostly to take them to prison. [00:26:33] What can I say? Compared to what happens in the world nowadays, probably it was nothing. But if a child or a young person start their life like that...you can't say it's nothing. 

[00:26:52] Interviewer: Oh it's not nothing. It's very big. And what strikes me bout you and the other people we've interviewed through Sephardi Voices you know, we're, I don't know what age you are but you know, I'm thinking about, when you talk, I think about myself and I what I was going through in high school when I was , you know, 17 or 18 years old. And I can just imagine how this place called Frank Iny as a school. I mean, as kids you and your families, it's like you're almost under house arrest. 

[00:27:26] Odette Masliyah: Yeah, that's basically [overlap]

[00:27:29] Interviewer: [overlap]...is a place of freedom. 

[00:27:31] Odette Masliyah: And comfort. And comfort. True. And that's why we became more attached to our friends. I mean, yes, we grew up together, we shared a lot of birthdays and other occasions but there was that one thing that bonded us together up till today. And today, nowadays with all the documentaries and all these stories that are coming out even though we know everybody made it out but everybody's story is very unique how they made it out. [00:28:01] Who did they talk to. How did, did their parents react?

[00:28:06] Interviewer: Could you tell me that again and just start it with, "The Frank Iny school...."?

[00:28:14] Odette Masliyah: So...because, so we were, we were in Frank Iny. It was a place of comfort for us, of happiness for us. That's how we bonded together. And up till today this bond is still there because we all were in the same situation. We all had to survive and make it out safely. [00:28:36] And the stories are coming now how each person, each family or individual people made it out and it's different, you know? Everybody has a different truth, everybody paid their way in different way. And some people were also imprisoned back too. Lucky they made it. Unfortunately, there were some atrocities as well too. [00:29:00] So, so when we meet we still care for each other. We still share that history all of us together. 

[00:29:13] Interviewer: That's beautiful. Thank you. Beautifully said. 

[00:29:17] Odette Masliyah: From the heart. 

[00:29:19] Interviewer: From the heart. That was great. 

[00:29:21] Odette Masliyah: Thank you guys. 

[00:29:22] Interviewer: Thank you. Now we'd also like to do a portrait of you.