Mayer Lawee
Cleaned by: Julia Pappo
Transcribed by: Rev
Interview date: September 11th, 2019
Interviewer: Lisette Shashoua
Location: Montreal
Total time: 1:00:00
Mayer Lawee: Born on July 29th, 1939 in Beirut, Lebanon. Arrived in Bombay in 1939. Arrived in Baghdad in 1942/3. Arrived in Egypt in 1944/5. Arrived in London in 1945. Arrived in New York in 1949. Arrived in Ontario in 1955. Arrived in Montreal around 1960.
Lisette Shashoua (00:13):
Hello Mayer.
Mayer Lawee (00:15):
How are you?
Lisette Shashoua (00:15):
Thank you for joining us today. Uh, I'd like you to give us your name, where you were born and, um, the country where you were born.
Mayer Lawee (00:26):
Um, thank you for inviting me for this co, conversation. I was born in Aley in Beirut and, uh, in 1939, July the 29th, 1939. And, uh, that's where my life started. Then we moved to, beginning of the war, we moved to Bombay to the Taj Mahal hotel. And, uh, my father at that time was going back and forth to Baghdad, was working with the British Army with regards to car parts, because that was his business, he was General Motors dealer for Iraq, Iran, and Israel. And he was handling the car parts and the, avoiding the black market for controlling the market for the British armed forces in Baghdad.
Lisette Shashoua (01:33):
I'd like to know if, if you can tell us anything about your grandparents, any memories or anecdotes you have about them?
Mayer Lawee (01:40):
I don't have any about my grandparents.
Lisette Shashoua (01:42):
But they were born, your, your, your parents, grandparents were born in Iraq, right?
Mayer Lawee (01:48):
Uh, Basra, yes in Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (01:51):
Okay. And your parents?
Mayer Lawee (01:53):
My parents were born in Basra.
Lisette Shashoua (01:55):
In Basra also?
Mayer Lawee (01:57):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:57):
And do you know how they met your parents?
Mayer Lawee (02:00):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (02:01):
Okay. (laughs) Okay. Please give us your dad's name.
Mayer Lawee (02:05):
My dad was [Yisrael Meir Lau 00:02:06].
Lisette Shashoua (02:07):
And his profession?
Mayer Lawee (02:11):
He was, um, automotive. He had General Motors franchises.
Lisette Shashoua (02:18):
And your mom?
Mayer Lawee (02:19):
My mom was a housewife, uh, from Basra and, uh, they, uh, they married around 14, I think she got married at 14.
Lisette Shashoua (02:34):
And her name?
Mayer Lawee (02:35):
[Naima Abed 00:02:35].
Lisette Shashoua (02:35):
Okay. And, uh, they got married in Basra?
Mayer Lawee (02:44):
No, they got married I think in Baghdad.
Lisette Shashoua (02:47):
Oh, so they met in Baghdad?
Mayer Lawee (02:52):
No, they met in Basra.
Lisette Shashoua (02:54):
And then they got married in Baghdad?
Mayer Lawee (02:55):
Yeah. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (02:57):
Uh, please tell us about your brothers and sisters and what you remember growing up with them.
Mayer Lawee (03:04):
I have, uh, three sis, four sisters, one passed away, but Madeleine, the, the eldest was Hilda Fatau, um, Madeleine Kazam, Claire [Cheteatu 00:03:20].
Lisette Shashoua (03:23):
So this year is your 80th birthday?
Mayer Lawee (03:26):
Yes it is.
Lisette Shashoua (03:26):
Happy birthday.
Mayer Lawee (03:27):
Thank you very much.
Lisette Shashoua (03:29):
And thank you for joining us.
Mayer Lawee (03:31):
Thank you for, for having me.
Lisette Shashoua (03:33):
Um, do you have your earliest memories of growing up, the social circles your parents belonged to?
Mayer Lawee (03:40):
Well, it was all intertwined with the war. My, my recollection start in India, the hotel, and then we summered in Poona. And, uh, Freddy and, and my cousins Hilda and, uh, Farah and Georgete they all went to school in Poona and so did my sisters, Hilda, Madeleine and Claire and, uh, they went to school there, there was a nuns type of organization. And then we moved to, back to Taj Ma, we were going in the summers, we were in the mountains in Poona and then in the regular time we were in, at the hotel in, in uh, Poona, I mean the Taj Mahal in, uh, in Bombay.
Lisette Shashoua (04:53):
What school did you go to in India or you didn't?
Mayer Lawee (04:56):
Yeah, [crosstalk 00:04:57] I didn't start going to school. I started, I guess kindergarten was in London, I mean, in, uh, Baghdad. And then, um, we moved to Egypt and from Egypt we moved to, uh, I moved to London.
Lisette Shashoua (05:15):
At what age?
Mayer Lawee (05:18):
About seven. I went to school with [Saskazam 00:05:22] we went to Sandroyd in England. I was in boarding school with Sas and then summers I lived with Ezra and Madeleine, I mean and Hilda. My parents went to New York to settle and we moved to New York, to New York in-
Lisette Shashoua (05:44):
How old were you then?
Mayer Lawee (05:49):
... say 10.
Lisette Shashoua (05:50):
So let's just, uh, summarize-
Mayer Lawee (05:53):
11, 11.
Lisette Shashoua (05:54):
11. You were born in, uh, Aley Lebanon.
Mayer Lawee (05:57):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (05:58):
You moved to India at what age?
Mayer Lawee (06:01):
When I was a few months.
Lisette Shashoua (06:03):
A few months, to escape the war?
Mayer Lawee (06:04):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (06:05):
To escape the war. So you lived in India, your sisters went to school in India. Then you went to kindergarten in Baghdad after India?
Mayer Lawee (06:13):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (06:14):
So how old were you then? Three, four?
Mayer Lawee (06:17):
Three, four.
Lisette Shashoua (06:17):
Okay. So you went Baghdad for what? A year or two?
Mayer Lawee (06:20):
A year or two.
Lisette Shashoua (06:21):
Okay. And then you moved to London or to Egypt?
Mayer Lawee (06:25):
We went to Israel for a few months.
Lisette Shashoua (06:27):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (06:28):
And then we, my father didn't feel he could, we had a business there.
Lisette Shashoua (06:32):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (06:32):
He had a car dealership with the [inaudible 00:06:35] family.
Lisette Shashoua (06:36):
Oh, okay.
Mayer Lawee (06:37):
And, uh, my father then moved to Egypt to see what he could do there.
Lisette Shashoua (06:44):
Wow.
Mayer Lawee (06:45):
And then he wasn't happy. so he dropped me off in London-
Lisette Shashoua (06:50):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (06:52):
... and he went on to New York.
Lisette Shashoua (06:54):
And your sisters?
Mayer Lawee (06:56):
My sisters traveled, um, Madeleine after she got married I think in '45 and, by the end of '45 beginning at '46, all my sisters got married. Uh, Hilda got married first, she moved to Manchester. Um, Madeleine got married to Jack and moved to Iran. Morris got married to Claire and they moved to Iran.
Lisette Shashoua (07:26):
As well?
Mayer Lawee (07:27):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (07:29):
And Morris and Claire came back to Baghdad after?
Mayer Lawee (07:32):
Yes. They came back to Baghdad when we left because they moved into the house.
Lisette Shashoua (07:36):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (07:37):
Until 1950-
Lisette Shashoua (07:40):
'58, '59.
Mayer Lawee (07:43):
... '58.
Lisette Shashoua (07:43):
Not '58, '59.
Mayer Lawee (07:45):
'58, '59. And then we leased the house to the French Embassy-
Lisette Shashoua (07:49):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (07:51):
... which is still being used by the French Embassy.
Lisette Shashoua (07:55):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (07:56):
And, uh, everybody moved on as they say.
Lisette Shashoua (08:01):
So the house in the French Embassy, which is the French Embassy in Iraq, they're not paying you for it now?
Mayer Lawee (08:07):
No, it was confiscated.
Lisette Shashoua (08:09):
By the government of Iraq?
Mayer Lawee (08:10):
By the government.
Lisette Shashoua (08:14):
Okay. Uh, what languages did you speak at home when you were traveling in all those places between you?
Mayer Lawee (08:22):
Well, I understood Arabic at the time, not anymore. I understand it today, but I don't speak it.
Lisette Shashoua (08:27):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (08:28):
I learned Egyptian and uh, I lost that completely. And, uh, English from England.
Lisette Shashoua (08:37):
English between all of you?
Mayer Lawee (08:39):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (08:39):
With your parents, English?
Mayer Lawee (08:42):
English was the main, main language.
Lisette Shashoua (08:45):
Were you, were there, did you grow up with non-Jews? Did you have non-Jewish friends uh, acquaintances?
Mayer Lawee (08:52):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (08:53):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (08:53):
I didn't have any, none that I can really remember, I can put my foot on because we were traveling a lot.
Lisette Shashoua (09:00):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (09:01):
But-
Lisette Shashoua (09:02):
But you had friends who were non-Jews who-
Mayer Lawee (09:04):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (09:05):
... visited you, you visited them?
Mayer Lawee (09:07):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (09:07):
Egyptians or, or Indians. I mean, you were everywhere. (laughs)
Mayer Lawee (09:11):
Yeah. No, the hotels, I don't remember anything, but my pride is Egypt. We had certain friends, the Mizrahis' and, and uh, the other groups were all, they lived next door to us at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (09:25):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And they were all Jewish or?
Mayer Lawee (09:28):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (09:28):
They were all Jewish. The Mizrahis' were all Jewish?
Mayer Lawee (09:30):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (09:31):
So you went to synagogues in each of these places?
Mayer Lawee (09:34):
Yeah. Mizrahis had a synagogue in Egypt right beside us.
Lisette Shashoua (09:38):
Okay. And I think here you also went to [crosstalk 00:09:41].
Mayer Lawee (09:41):
I was in, I was in the hospital, that's, I mean, I was in the hotels and that's all I knew at that time.
Lisette Shashoua (09:46):
Okay. And then you lived in Iraq at all? [crosstalk 00:09:49].
Mayer Lawee (09:49):
I lived in Iraq for about, uh, a year and a half. You know, when I think '45, '44, the war was nearly over.
Lisette Shashoua (10:01):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (10:03):
And that area, we moved back to Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (10:05):
And what kindergarten did you go to in Iraq?
Mayer Lawee (10:10):
The local, whatever it was at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (10:12):
Okay. That's great. Uh, so your family did not live in a Jewish area. They lived in that house-
Mayer Lawee (10:23):
Correct, correct.
Lisette Shashoua (10:24):
... that became the British embassy in Aliyah was it?
Mayer Lawee (10:27):
Yeah, near there, that's right.
Lisette Shashoua (10:28):
Near the Aliyah.
Mayer Lawee (10:29):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (10:30):
What was the address? Do you remember?
Mayer Lawee (10:31):
I don't remember.
Lisette Shashoua (10:31):
Okay.
Mayer Lawee (10:33):
From what I hear, up until about 10 years ago, French Embassy people and people who were telling them where to go, they said [inaudible 00:10:41].
Lisette Shashoua (10:41):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (10:43):
That's all I know.
Lisette Shashoua (10:44):
Uh, I've been to the house by the way.
Mayer Lawee (10:47):
Wow.
Lisette Shashoua (10:47):
I have pictures of it. Um, do you remember the food, the food that was-
Mayer Lawee (10:55):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (10:56):
... Iraqi food?
Mayer Lawee (10:58):
Mostly Iraqi food.
Lisette Shashoua (11:00):
That your parents, that your mom cooked?
Mayer Lawee (11:02):
My mum had people who cooked, yes.
Lisette Shashoua (11:04):
And she taught them.
Mayer Lawee (11:05):
She taught them.
Lisette Shashoua (11:06):
And that was in Iraq, in India. And then when you, when they went to New York, she also had Iraqi food cooked?
Mayer Lawee (11:14):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (11:15):
She taught people how to cook the Iraq food-
Mayer Lawee (11:16):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (11:17):
... and here in Canada too.
Mayer Lawee (11:18):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (11:20):
So once you moved to the States, you then came back to Canada. How long were you in the States and then came to live in Canada?
Mayer Lawee (11:31):
About four years in the States and then we moved to Canada and I went to school here.
Lisette Shashoua (11:38):
What year?
Mayer Lawee (11:38):
I think around '55.
Lisette Shashoua (11:40):
'55. So you went to school, uh, secondary school here?
Mayer Lawee (11:46):
I went to junior secondary school.
Lisette Shashoua (11:49):
Yeah. Secondary school. Which school did you go to?
Mayer Lawee (11:52):
Uh, which one was that one? St. Andrew's, it was in Ontario.
Lisette Shashoua (12:00):
Hmm.
Mayer Lawee (12:00):
Wore a kilt. Was a sharp shooter.
Lisette Shashoua (12:07):
What was a sharp shooter?
Mayer Lawee (12:08):
I was.
Lisette Shashoua (12:09):
Oh, you were?
Mayer Lawee (12:10):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (12:11):
Oh, what did you shoot?
Mayer Lawee (12:13):
Targets and for government competitions.
Lisette Shashoua (12:16):
Oh.
Mayer Lawee (12:17):
We were attached to the 48th Highlanders.
Lisette Shashoua (12:22):
Oh, how fun.
Mayer Lawee (12:22):
So we wore, I had a kilt and the whole bit.
Lisette Shashoua (12:24):
Oh, a kilt?
Mayer Lawee (12:25):
Oh, yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (12:26):
Okay, the question.
Mayer Lawee (12:28):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (12:28):
What do you wear [crosstalk 00:12:30].
Mayer Lawee (12:29):
I wore swimsuit.
Lisette Shashoua (12:30):
(laughing) Okay.
Mayer Lawee (12:34):
I wasn't taking any chances.
Lisette Shashoua (12:35):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (12:38):
We got into enough fights. We used to march down Yonge Street in London, in Toronto.
Lisette Shashoua (12:44):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (12:46):
And with kilts, I was a drummer in the band.
Lisette Shashoua (12:49):
Wow.
Mayer Lawee (12:51):
And, uh, that's how it goes.
Lisette Shashoua (12:56):
And you still have the kilt?
Mayer Lawee (12:58):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (12:59):
Pictures?
Mayer Lawee (13:01):
Pictures I have.
Lisette Shashoua (13:02):
Laura, you have pictures of the kilt?
Laura (13:05):
Yeah. We have pictures from his schooling, from his education. Yeah, yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (13:07):
So you can show us some of his, this is fabulous. (laughs) And you were allowed to wear swimsuits? Did they let you get away with it?
Mayer Lawee (13:15):
Whether they did or not, I didn't care.
Lisette Shashoua (13:17):
(laughing) Um, what about, um, what about like uh, the Jewish customs? Uh, your parents were strict with it, with the kosher, with the?
Mayer Lawee (13:31):
They were relatively kosher. It was no ham and no, no pork products at the house.
Lisette Shashoua (13:39):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (13:42):
And, uh, my father was fairly religious. He believed in that he, uh, he really established, he helped establish [inaudible 00:13:53] Spanish and Portuguese.
Lisette Shashoua (13:56):
Wow.
Mayer Lawee (13:56):
When they moved from, uh, there was a one-
Lisette Shashoua (13:59):
A building.
Mayer Lawee (14:02):
... there was a building on of [inaudible 00:14:06] of [Vaughan 00:14:08].
Lisette Shashoua (14:07):
Yes. Yes.
Mayer Lawee (14:09):
And he helped arrange the move from-
Lisette Shashoua (14:12):
Vaughan.
Mayer Lawee (14:13):
... Vaughan to the Spanish and Portuguese.
Lisette Shashoua (14:17):
Oh, wow. So they were instrumental in-
Mayer Lawee (14:20):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (14:21):
... establishing the synagogue here in Montreal?
Mayer Lawee (14:23):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (14:24):
Okay. Do you remember any of the traditions that you-
Mayer Lawee (14:26):
The normal Jewish traditions.
Lisette Shashoua (14:31):
... and did you have a bar mitzvah?
Mayer Lawee (14:32):
I had it in New York.
Lisette Shashoua (14:34):
Yes?
Mayer Lawee (14:34):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (14:35):
How big was it?
Mayer Lawee (14:38):
It was very big. It was at the Spanish, Portuguese in New York.
Lisette Shashoua (14:40):
In New York?
Mayer Lawee (14:40):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (14:41):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (14:42):
The trouble I used to have was I had to fake it with the rabbi because my voice was fairly good at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (14:52):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (14:52):
I used to sing in the choir-
Lisette Shashoua (14:55):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (14:55):
... at the church, I mean their morning service, it wasn't at church, at the, at the school.
Lisette Shashoua (15:02):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (15:03):
And then I go to, uh, New York to practice in the hall and he wants me to sing in the choir there. And he wondered where I got my practice and I couldn't tell him I was singing in a choir in church.
Lisette Shashoua (15:18):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (15:20):
And, uh, it was, uh, I did well, let's put it that way. I sang uh, very, very nicely-
Lisette Shashoua (15:29):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (15:29):
... in the Christmas pageants.
Lisette Shashoua (15:32):
That's superb. (laughing) That's superb. Um, do you have any recordings of this?
Mayer Lawee (15:39):
I have them, but they're so scratchy that it's very hard to, uh-
Lisette Shashoua (15:44):
But it's fabulous to have it-
Mayer Lawee (15:45):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (15:45):
... for the family.
Mayer Lawee (15:48):
Yeah. I can play something later on just for sake of this.
Lisette Shashoua (15:52):
That would be great.
Mayer Lawee (15:54):
I have it on my-
Lisette Shashoua (15:55):
It's fabulous. Okay. Wow. So, um, you had dancing in your bar mitzvah then?
Mayer Lawee (16:02):
Oh, yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (16:02):
Yeah?
Mayer Lawee (16:03):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (16:03):
So you had what? 200 people? 300?
Mayer Lawee (16:07):
No, my bar mitzvah was in New York, it's fairly small. It was always in the house.
Lisette Shashoua (16:11):
Oh, it was in the house.
Mayer Lawee (16:11):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (16:11):
Okay.
Mayer Lawee (16:11):
And those days you didn't have the big parties.
Lisette Shashoua (16:16):
No.
Mayer Lawee (16:17):
They came to the house and filled up the place.
Lisette Shashoua (16:21):
(laughs) Any particular values or, or, or traditions or customs that you liked that you'd like to mention of the family?
Mayer Lawee (16:34):
Well, my father was a semi-religious man. And, uh, they kept on the Jewish customs at the house. And, uh, my father was strict with me as far as my growth was concerned. And, uh, it really he, he was, you know, I owe my upbringing and my learning period from my father. He was a very good businessman and he had a sense of community. He worked with [Harun Khatan 00:17:15] and, uh, they brought the community to the Spanish and I really relate most of my strengths and weaknesses to him.
Lisette Shashoua (17:31):
Would you like to talk more about your, your parents? Your dad, your-
Mayer Lawee (17:35):
Well, I believe they are the guiding light for like me and my family. And-
Lisette Shashoua (17:42):
And for the community it looks like.
Mayer Lawee (17:44):
Yeah. They were very strong in the community with the [Marshals 00:17:48] and the others at the time. And, uh, it was a, uh, a growing period. We had our problems, you know, we had the French problems, created a little bit of problems here and so forth.
Lisette Shashoua (18:05):
You mean in business?
Mayer Lawee (18:07):
In business and in living. There was a story in 19, I guess it was 19 around 1960, '65, the French methodology and the, they weren't really inclusive of people from outside Canada-
Lisette Shashoua (18:27):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (18:28):
... outside Montreal or outside Quebec. And there was a story that at that time, when my father moved here, Freddy Alfred, who graduated from, uh, GM school in, uh, Michigan.
Lisette Shashoua (18:47):
GM mean General Motors?
Mayer Lawee (18:49):
General Motors.
Lisette Shashoua (18:50):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (18:51):
So we ended up coming here looking for play, as [Kaduri Lau 00:18:55] came to uh, Montreal, waiting for his immigration papers to go back as a land immigrant into the States.
Lisette Shashoua (19:06):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (19:08):
My father came to visit him in the summer, he didn't see a winter at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (19:13):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (19:15):
And, uh, he liked the area and, uh, Fred was, Alfred was, uh, graduated from business, from GM school. So we went to visit General Motors here and, uh, they offered us, uh, uh, share, a partnership with Bert Barnby at Barnby Motors in [inaudible 00:19:43].
Lisette Shashoua (19:42):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (19:45):
And Fred then moved to Canada and took over the business.
Lisette Shashoua (19:49):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (19:51):
And that's how we eventually just all came and settled.
Lisette Shashoua (19:56):
You said there was a problem with being, uh-
Mayer Lawee (19:59):
Well, they didn't like Jews at the time or the outsiders. Bert Barnby became, uh, very friendly with my father. He started-
Lisette Shashoua (20:14):
Bert Barnby was not Jewish?
Mayer Lawee (20:15):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (20:15):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (20:16):
He started calling him uncle Ed, that was his terminology. And he gave us the for a couple of weeks he said, "Why don't you go to my place at the [Sainte de Clare 00:20:28] Hotel?"
Lisette Shashoua (20:29):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (20:31):
And my father went and he liked it. And he says, "Well, why don't I invite the family for a weekend." So he went to the front desk and uh, he said, uh, "I need rooms for so many people." We were close to 15, 16 people at the time. And they said, "I'm sorry, we don't have any rooms." My father gathered that no Jews were really welcome.
Lisette Shashoua (20:59):
How did they know that your dad was Jewish?
Mayer Lawee (21:01):
They must have figured it out.
Lisette Shashoua (21:03):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (21:04):
And, uh, he went back to the Bert, to Bert and he said, uh, "I don't think the suite will suit us." Bert finally figured it out and went to the management with the help of the other French, the French, uh, business people in the community, and basically said that they'd shut the place down if he didn't, they didn't honor our reservations, which they did.
Lisette Shashoua (21:38):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (21:38):
And, uh, life went on.
Lisette Shashoua (21:42):
So that was the only?
Mayer Lawee (21:44):
Well, there's always minors, but that was a-
Lisette Shashoua (21:46):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (21:47):
... critical situation at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (21:49):
Have you experienced anything-
Mayer Lawee (21:53):
Not really.
Lisette Shashoua (21:53):
... not only in Montreal, anywhere in all those places you traveled and [crosstalk 00:21:57] experience.
Mayer Lawee (21:59):
No. They didn't know anything. You know, in other words, uh, when I went to, uh, St. Andrew's headmaster came to ask me if I knew he had an Arab family coming from Europe and he wanted to know if we were black or we were white. He had no, they had no clue as to who was coming from the Middle East in that place at the time. I found that interesting that they didn't were not made aware of what was going on at the time, but that was the times.
Lisette Shashoua (22:36):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So your family seems to have been always ahead of the times, leaving the country, where there was persecution against the Jews, or did, did they experience any persecution themselves?
Mayer Lawee (22:48):
Well, my father was really looking for a place to establish business.
Lisette Shashoua (22:51):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (22:53):
And he didn't, uh, he didn't find Egypt that great.
Lisette Shashoua (22:57):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (23:01):
And there was no value for him in England. And, uh, New York suited him at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (23:08):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (23:10):
And by luck or by not luck, whatever, however you want to count it, Kaduri moved to Montreal to wait for immigration papers and, uh, my father liked it and here we are.
Lisette Shashoua (23:26):
Fantastic. Um, General Motors, you were working with General Motors in Iraq as well, even though you were here, Morris and Claire-
Mayer Lawee (23:37):
Morris and Claire ran General Motors when-
Lisette Shashoua (23:40):
In Iraq.
Mayer Lawee (23:40):
... in Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (23:41):
Up to '58 and then it continued, right?
Mayer Lawee (23:44):
It continued, was taken over by Arabs.
Lisette Shashoua (23:47):
Oh, when was it given to Arabs?
Mayer Lawee (23:51):
My father made a deal with one of the Arab families that he knew very well and he sold them the business.
Lisette Shashoua (24:01):
What year? Do you remember?
Mayer Lawee (24:04):
Uh, when Morris left in about '57, I think it was.
Lisette Shashoua (24:08):
Didn't Morris come back in '62?
Mayer Lawee (24:12):
He came back for a short term.
Lisette Shashoua (24:14):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (24:15):
Right.
Lisette Shashoua (24:16):
So it was still part of the-
Mayer Lawee (24:18):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (24:19):
... or it has already been given out?
Mayer Lawee (24:21):
No, it was probably given out.
Lisette Shashoua (24:23):
Okay.
Mayer Lawee (24:24):
Because when we left and when Morris left, Morris was the last, Morris and Claire were the last ones to live in the house?
Lisette Shashoua (24:32):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (24:34):
And we signed, they signed the lease with the French Embassy.
Lisette Shashoua (24:38):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (24:39):
On behalf of my father.
Lisette Shashoua (24:40):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (24:42):
And, uh, that's uh, then they left when it became too big problems probably started to arise about the Jews at the time.
Lisette Shashoua (24:55):
And there is a revolution against the king.
Mayer Lawee (24:56):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (24:56):
They left after the revolution?
Mayer Lawee (24:58):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (24:58):
I remember when they left.
Mayer Lawee (25:00):
The king, Faisal-
Lisette Shashoua (25:02):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (25:02):
... was with me in school in Sandroyd.
Lisette Shashoua (25:06):
Oh my God.
Mayer Lawee (25:07):
And-
Lisette Shashoua (25:08):
In London, in England?
Mayer Lawee (25:09):
In England.
Lisette Shashoua (25:10):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (25:10):
Salisbury.
Lisette Shashoua (25:11):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (25:12):
And, uh, he left the year I entered Sandroyd and he went back to-
Lisette Shashoua (25:24):
Baghdad.
Mayer Lawee (25:25):
... Baghdad and two years later he was beheaded by a sit-down.
Lisette Shashoua (25:32):
Hmm. Yeah. By, uh [inaudible 00:25:37] at the time.
Mayer Lawee (25:38):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (25:40):
Yup.
Mayer Lawee (25:41):
On TV.
Lisette Shashoua (25:43):
Yes. Yes. It was bad times.
Mayer Lawee (25:49):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (25:49):
And it continues, unfortunately. Um, so the, the, the Jewish organizations your dad helped establish was the Spanish and Portuguese here?
Mayer Lawee (26:05):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (26:06):
And anything else in New York or anywhere else or?
Mayer Lawee (26:09):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (26:09):
No?
Mayer Lawee (26:10):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (26:11):
The Spanish and Portuguese, because he ended up living here.
Mayer Lawee (26:15):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (26:16):
Um, were you involved in any Zionist organizations at any point, your family?
Mayer Lawee (26:24):
My father was involved not with the, I don't call them, any other organizations he was involved with. He was a Shriner at one time we found memorabilia of that, the Shriners here. And he was private, you know, him and Kaduri were a close knit, they were at the hip. The only people I ever knew that could sit in the same office side-by-side for, until Kaduri passed away, they always sat in the same office.
Lisette Shashoua (26:54):
They were brothers?
Mayer Lawee (26:55):
Yeah. And they built their home side by side, on Cedar Avenue. And, uh, it was very nice, it was so quiet between them, they never talked. They were very quiet, they talked a lot but they were very quiet as individuals. I can never sit in the same office with Fred, I'm too noisy. So he-
Lisette Shashoua (27:24):
Fred and you are cousins?
Mayer Lawee (27:25):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (27:25):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (27:26):
He's Kaduri's son.
Lisette Shashoua (27:27):
Yes. Yes.
Mayer Lawee (27:29):
And uh, we've always had businesses together ever since.
Lisette Shashoua (27:33):
And you still do.
Mayer Lawee (27:34):
We still are, still partners.
Lisette Shashoua (27:38):
But you can't sit in the same office. (laughs)
Mayer Lawee (27:40):
Oh, no, he puts extra soundproofing between us. I'm too loud.
Lisette Shashoua (27:44):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (27:47):
It's uh, he, he can't take the noise he likes quiet himself. I yell a lot.
Lisette Shashoua (27:59):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (28:01):
You know, I mean, in reality, we owe, uh, the strength of the family as a whole, I owe it to my father. He was the leader. Kaduri was the elder statesman, quiet and reserved, but he would be, uh, he took care of the, they were a team, one took care of the business and one took care of the financial accounting and responsibilities of watching what was going on. Father ran the business and my uncle always followed and made sure everything was happening properly.
Lisette Shashoua (28:52):
It's fantastic partnership.
Mayer Lawee (28:54):
Well, you know the old story, you can't make anything with one hand clapping, you know, you need two people. There was a, they were a team and Fred and I became a team except for the yelling.
Lisette Shashoua (29:11):
(laughs) So, um, they worked with General Motors in Iraq.
Mayer Lawee (29:15):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (29:16):
In Egypt it didn't quite pan out?
Mayer Lawee (29:18):
Didn't pan out.
Lisette Shashoua (29:19):
In India it did not pan out?
Mayer Lawee (29:21):
Well, they weren't in India because at that time he was flying back and forth during the war period, he was flying back and forth to Baghdad to help the armed forces with the, you know, avoid the black market and control of parts, car parts, and so forth.
Lisette Shashoua (29:40):
Avoid the black market with the British?
Mayer Lawee (29:42):
Yeah. And it was, they were working to control so that they nothing and, all the parts didn't end up in the black market.
Lisette Shashoua (29:49):
Yes. Okay. Now I get it. All the parts of the cars-
Mayer Lawee (29:53):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (29:54):
... didn't end up in the black market.
Mayer Lawee (29:55):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (29:55):
So did they work in Iran as well? Did you, did, were they-
Mayer Lawee (29:59):
No. He tried working in Iran but he, we had the franchise, we started and [inaudible 00:30:05] showed up and said, "Thank you very much, we'll take it from here."
Lisette Shashoua (30:09):
[crosstalk 00:30:09] from Iran?
Mayer Lawee (30:10):
Yeah. "We'll take it from here," as he said and we left-
Lisette Shashoua (30:13):
And he took over?
Mayer Lawee (30:15):
... he took over.
Lisette Shashoua (30:15):
Okay. And in Egypt it didn't work. And in India, did you do GM as well?
Mayer Lawee (30:21):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (30:21):
No?
Mayer Lawee (30:21):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (30:21):
So and not in England either.
Mayer Lawee (30:23):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (30:24):
Only in, in New York and then in Montreal?
Mayer Lawee (30:27):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (30:28):
And then when did you stop working with GM or do you still do?
Mayer Lawee (30:33):
Uh, we finished, we sold the business, we sold Barnby in 1967. Freddy and I got out then and-
Lisette Shashoua (30:41):
After your parents, after your dad stopped working?
Mayer Lawee (30:47):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (30:48):
Okay.
Mayer Lawee (30:51):
We, we moved to uh, downtown. We, um, we had a partnership with the [Miralis 00:30:58] Group.
Lisette Shashoua (30:59):
Yes, yes.
Mayer Lawee (31:00):
And we went into real estate and uh-
Lisette Shashoua (31:03):
In '67?
Mayer Lawee (31:03):
... in '67.
Lisette Shashoua (31:05):
Okay. So the whole thing now is with the Miralis and.
Mayer Lawee (31:12):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (31:15):
Wow. Talking about displaced Jew, you've been all over the world.
Mayer Lawee (31:21):
Well, that's the, that's what happens at the time. It was those times, as I say.
Lisette Shashoua (31:26):
Yeah, avoiding the war and black market. So, so when you had the, uh, dealership with GM means you were selling the cars and the parts.
Mayer Lawee (31:38):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (31:39):
And we, my father bought all his cars in Baghdad from Morris?
Mayer Lawee (31:44):
Probably, that's right.
Lisette Shashoua (31:45):
Yeah. We had the Chevrolet '57, '58, '59, '60, '61 till we stopped buying cars.
Mayer Lawee (31:55):
(laughs)
Lisette Shashoua (31:55):
Things got bad in Baghdad. So by the way, when you are traveling from one place to the other, was it always an airplane? Did you take boats anywhere?
Mayer Lawee (32:07):
Uh, we, with the Queen Elizabeth, when we traveled from London to here to the States, most of the time was planes.
Lisette Shashoua (32:20):
And going to India, plane also?
Mayer Lawee (32:21):
Planes.
Lisette Shashoua (32:22):
All of that. Okay. Now, wasn't there any adjustment for you to go through here in New York?
Mayer Lawee (32:30):
It's always an adjustment, but when you're a kid, it's not that bad.
Lisette Shashoua (32:33):
For you parents.
Mayer Lawee (32:34):
For my parents it was very hard because they didn't like being, uh, it takes, my father went to General Motors in New York-
Lisette Shashoua (32:47):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (32:48):
... and said, uh, "We'd like to buy a dealership, could you find this one?" Because Freddy had graduated from GM school so we'd start there. And they head of exports for General Motors visited my father from, came from Flint, Michigan to visit my father. And he said, "You people are gentlemen, car business is not for you in New York." And he wouldn't, he wouldn't even recommend us buying a dealership there.
Lisette Shashoua (33:22):
And you didn't.
Mayer Lawee (33:23):
No, we didn't.
Lisette Shashoua (33:25):
But it was okay to do so here?
Mayer Lawee (33:26):
Well, here was a little different story. They're more welcoming in Montreal.
Lisette Shashoua (33:34):
Yes.
Mayer Lawee (33:35):
Well, especially when somebody who was in, it was trouble at the time, so it worked out for everybody.
Lisette Shashoua (33:42):
Who was in [crosstalk 00:33:43].
Mayer Lawee (33:42):
Barnby Motors.
Lisette Shashoua (33:43):
Barnby Motors was it trouble?
Mayer Lawee (33:46):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (33:47):
Okay. So you worked with Barnby Motors?
Mayer Lawee (33:49):
We became partners.
Lisette Shashoua (33:51):
You became partners.
Mayer Lawee (33:52):
And then we bought it out later.
Lisette Shashoua (33:53):
Okay. And you stayed friends?
Mayer Lawee (33:58):
Always.
Lisette Shashoua (33:58):
Yeah. And now his children and you are in touch?
Mayer Lawee (34:02):
Not really.
Lisette Shashoua (34:03):
No. But you know them.
Mayer Lawee (34:04):
Oh, yes. We know them.
Lisette Shashoua (34:08):
Okay. What did you leave behind other than the house? The beautiful, magnificent home in Baghdad.
Mayer Lawee (34:17):
Nothing that I can really remember.
Lisette Shashoua (34:19):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And you weren't able to retrieve anything?
Mayer Lawee (34:23):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (34:24):
The house is lost?
Mayer Lawee (34:26):
Well, we never know. That's going to be my, that I'm working on it. If it happens, it happens, if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.
Lisette Shashoua (34:36):
Yeah. Do you have first impressions of Canada? Your impression when you first moved?
Mayer Lawee (34:47):
I was young I, I didn't really, I wasn't in the French, mid-year I'd moved to, I was in boarding school.
Lisette Shashoua (34:55):
In Canada, in Montreal or in Toronto?
Mayer Lawee (34:57):
In Toronto.
Lisette Shashoua (34:58):
With your kilt?
Mayer Lawee (35:00):
With my kilt at St. Andrew's.
Lisette Shashoua (35:02):
You still have the kilt?
Mayer Lawee (35:03):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (35:03):
(laughs) Okay. So, so really, because you were going from one school to the other, you know, all the time, you really didn't need a big adjustment. You were already talking English, right?
Mayer Lawee (35:17):
I was talking English.
Lisette Shashoua (35:18):
Yeah. But your parents managed to also did not have big obstacles other than work obstacles, right?
Mayer Lawee (35:27):
No, they had no obstacle.
Lisette Shashoua (35:27):
Do, do you remember anything that they-
Mayer Lawee (35:28):
No, nothing really.
Lisette Shashoua (35:29):
Yeah. Okay. Anything about, how did you preserve the Sephardic her, heritage in the family?
Mayer Lawee (35:40):
My mother, my mother was very family orientated.
Lisette Shashoua (35:47):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (35:49):
And together with [Musley 00:35:51] Kaduri's wife, uh, they kept us grounded in Jewish traditions and being good people, as they say.
Lisette Shashoua (36:04):
Anything important, uh, that you kept for you, from your Sephardic background for you, anything important to you so far?
Mayer Lawee (36:15):
Well, no. Synagogue, I guess.
Lisette Shashoua (36:19):
And what would you describe yourself in terms of your identity?
Mayer Lawee (36:26):
I'm a Jew that's moved around a lot. (laughing)
Lisette Shashoua (36:34):
Do you consider yourself a refugee or a migrant?
Mayer Lawee (36:37):
Migrant.
Lisette Shashoua (36:39):
Um, and home what's home for you?
Mayer Lawee (36:43):
Canada, Montreal.
Lisette Shashoua (36:46):
And what's the identity you'd like to pass on to your children?
Mayer Lawee (36:53):
Iraqi Jews, Canadians.
Lisette Shashoua (36:57):
And the languages you speak to them?
Mayer Lawee (37:01):
English.
Lisette Shashoua (37:04):
Is there an impact that the refugee migration experience had on your life?
Mayer Lawee (37:13):
Well, yeah. You had to make friends every time you moved and you were disjointed in getting organized, assimilated. You know, it's, uh, people here bond from the time they come out of kindergarten. So when I was coming in, I was generally an outsider because generally speaking, all these college kids and high school kids, and were all friends since they were babies in kindergarten together. So I was always sort of on the outside. Not that I wasn't accepted, but I was always on the outside.
Lisette Shashoua (37:57):
Hmm.
Mayer Lawee (38:00):
In uh, St. Andrew's they didn't understand what a Jew really was. I was one of the very few Jews in the school, but as they say life goes on.
Lisette Shashoua (38:12):
Do you have any memories of Baghdad that at all or you don't?
Mayer Lawee (38:13):
Very, very little bit.
Lisette Shashoua (38:17):
Would you be curious to go back and say it?
Mayer Lawee (38:19):
No. No.
Lisette Shashoua (38:22):
Okay. Now the last question is, what message would you like to give to anyone who might listen to this interview?
Mayer Lawee (38:32):
In what sense?
Lisette Shashoua (38:35):
Any message, any advice, any, anything you'd like to tell Laura? Anything you'd like to tell your children?
Mayer Lawee (38:45):
That, uh, my parents, my uncles built a family name that I'd like them to preserve with their traditions because I owe it all to them. I just followed.
Lisette Shashoua (39:08):
Beautiful. Thank you. I don't think I asked you about the children. Um, I don't know why. Just tell me your children's names and what they're doing and their lives.
Mayer Lawee (39:19):
The eldest is Laura.
Lisette Shashoua (39:24):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (39:24):
Living in Montreal and San Diego.
Lisette Shashoua (39:28):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (39:29):
Uh, there's David, who is now in San Francisco, working with a small company called Google.
Lisette Shashoua (39:38):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (39:38):
And-
Lisette Shashoua (39:38):
What does he do with Google?
Mayer Lawee (39:43):
He's, uh, on the director board of directors in some, he's in the operation. He mostly manages transactions, acquisitions.
Lisette Shashoua (39:57):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And, uh, grandchildren.
Laura (40:02):
[inaudible 00:40:02].
Mayer Lawee (40:05):
Daniel is now in New York.
Lisette Shashoua (40:07):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). How old is he?
Mayer Lawee (40:13):
53, isn't he?
Laura (40:15):
51.
Mayer Lawee (40:16):
Daniel is 51?
Lisette Shashoua (40:17):
Your grandson is-
Mayer Lawee (40:19):
[crosstalk 00:40:19] no, Daniel, my son.
Lisette Shashoua (40:21):
Your son is Daniel.
Mayer Lawee (40:21):
Right.
Lisette Shashoua (40:22):
Okay. And he's 51?
Mayer Lawee (40:24):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (40:24):
And his grandchild, uh, grandchild uh, do you have any grandchildren?
Mayer Lawee (40:29):
We have uh, nine.
Lisette Shashoua (40:33):
Nine?
Laura (40:34):
Well, from both families.
Lisette Shashoua (40:36):
Both families.
Laura (40:37):
But from, from those it's five.
Lisette Shashoua (40:39):
Oh, five, for, for Daniel has vie?
Laura (40:42):
No, David has three and Daniel has two.
Lisette Shashoua (40:44):
Oh, you have two brothers.
Laura (40:46):
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Lisette Shashoua (40:46):
Okay. Okay.
Laura (40:47):
That's what we're saying is that David lives in California and Daniel lives in New York.
Lisette Shashoua (40:50):
Okay. So mashallah. So boys and or, how many boys, how many girls?
Mayer Lawee (40:56):
David is one boy, two girls.
Lisette Shashoua (40:59):
Would you like to say their names?
Mayer Lawee (41:01):
Sure. There's uh-
Laura (41:01):
Chloe.
Mayer Lawee (41:01):
... Chloe is the oldest. Justin is the second.
Lisette Shashoua (41:09):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (41:10):
And, uh-
Laura (41:11):
Debbie Olivia.
Mayer Lawee (41:12):
... Debbie Olivia is the third. And Danielle has two. One is Marin and Marin's younger than-
Laura (41:23):
Yeah, Jordan is [crosstalk 00:41:25].
Mayer Lawee (41:24):
Jordan is older.
Laura (41:25):
And then Marin.
Mayer Lawee (41:26):
And then Marin.
Lisette Shashoua (41:28):
And do you have more grandchildren from your, from Roberta, your wife?
Mayer Lawee (41:32):
Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (41:33):
How many of these?
Mayer Lawee (41:35):
I have uh-
Laura (41:37):
Three.
Mayer Lawee (41:37):
... three from Beth.
Lisette Shashoua (41:39):
Three from Beth. Any other kids Roberta has?
Laura (41:43):
Shawna.
Mayer Lawee (41:44):
Shawna. She lives in San Francisco, she's a lawyer.
Lisette Shashoua (41:48):
Fantastic. So thank you very much.
Mayer Lawee (41:52):
Thank you very much.
Lisette Shashoua (41:53):
Is there else you'd like to share with us or add?
Mayer Lawee (41:57):
Well, if this is for part of the Jewish studies, you know, people should realize that we all came here and had to make our way and, uh, it's up to the next generations to keep up the, uh, the work that my father and my mother really star, started.
Lisette Shashoua (42:21):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (42:24):
To help establish the community.
Lisette Shashoua (42:27):
That's beautiful. Thank you very much.
Mayer Lawee (42:31):
Thank you.
Lisette Shashoua (42:31):
And now, uh, with, I'll take a portrait and also the pictures. Have you given them pictures?
Laura (42:36):
Yeah. Well, I gave you, I left, took that stuff from there. This is the pictures of the house that was like from my grandmother that you asked. But I think that you were trying to ask him, you know, like you were talking, well, like family traditions and the culture.
Lisette Shashoua (42:51):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Laura (42:51):
So my dad was friends with the [Sikarels 00:42:53] in Egypt, so they had a community in Egypt. So they kind of, when they moved they, I mean, obviously, you know, when you're living in a hotel, it's a much more, um, you know, you're, it's a much more fluid, like the, the people who are, that are coming in and out. I think in Egypt, they were kind of more established with a little community, like a Jewish like community. So my dad's closest friends from there are friends that he's had like for, you know, a bazillion years. So Jeff Mazuri, and Paul Sikarel were both living with him in Egypt, but he didn't really talk about, you know, like my grandfather did to fill in every morning, you know.
Laura (43:34):
So that was like, he was really, uh, very observant for himself, you know, which less, I think it was more about tradition, less about, you know, no milk and meat, but really much more like about traditionalist. And the Shabbat dinner was like very serious, he took it very seriously. So the Shabbat dinners were really the tradition of the family. So Shabbat dinner was like really that and the Jewish holidays and the food, which was part of the culture of the family. But that really was the installation was like the Shabbat and the Shabbat like continued and we never, you know, from all the way through.
Laura (44:14):
Uh, you know, even past when my, you know, when my grandmother passed away, then it came, we came here and Shabbat dinner was like here, but it was every Friday night, but both families had Shabbat. And if they didn't want to invite, you know, have, I mean, because it was like something like 40 or 50 people in total. So they would maybe finish their dinner and then meet for dessert or meet after dessert in one or the other's homes. So there was always Shabbat dinner, which was really part of, I think, what you were asking, which is really what was the culture, what was, what was something that everybody talked about? What, what was sustainable?
Laura (44:48):
You know, which was really the Jewish holidays. My grandmother had tea every day at four o'clock. And that was either with her girls or with friends and that she would receive people. And then, you know, maybe once a week or once every two weeks she would have a tea and it would be like 40 women would come maybe every you know, two or three weeks. So she would have like a big, big tea and all the ladies, then her friends would come the [inaudible 00:45:15] the Marshals, like she would just invite everybody, you know, her cousins, the extended community.
Laura (45:21):
So they were always kind of inviting people and having people, you know, um, I think that, I didn't know that my grandfather did to fill in until I slept over. And then I realized that he would do this to fill in, then he would have tea upstairs, then he would get dressed and then he would come downstairs. But the Shabbat dinner was really something that was, you know, you had to be there. You, you know, if you had a date, you weren't allowed to go, you had to do the Shabbat dinner first, and then, you know, you could go off and do your thing. And that was something that was, I mean, everybody's upbringing was like, this was like Friday night was, it's not even like a tradition, it was really like etched into the culture of the family and the importance of that, you know.
Lisette Shashoua (46:04):
[inaudible 00:46:04].
Laura (46:05):
I wanted you to know, 'cause I can reiterate it and I can wear a mic or whatever. But I think that the Friday night dinner is really-
Lisette Shashoua (46:13):
[foreign language 00:46:13].
Speaker 4 (46:14):
[foreign language 00:46:14].
Laura (46:18):
Do you want to ask him? 'Cause I wanted, he knows and we have pictures of those Shabbat dinners. I can't get those to you today, but I'll have to look for them.
Lisette Shashoua (46:26):
[foreign language 00:46:26].
Speaker 4 (46:27):
[foreign language 00:46:27].
Laura (46:30):
I'm sorry about my stomach.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
No, (laughs) no worry.
Laura (46:33):
No, but I'm saying, I think that you were asking like, what do we take from that? So I think Friday night dinner is something. The food which was part of those, you know, traditions, you know, the fo, like all the food, like the Iraqi food, which, I mean, my dad spoke about that was something that was definitely part of the culture. It's so much work now. That's why people don't do it because I mean, but I mean, we had that like always, and we weren't like, there really wasn't that sort of like assimilation to like Ashkenazi food or anything like that for you know, many years, until almost like until Roberta came into our family in the '70s. But it was like very much, you know, traditionalist, you know, like very, I mean, I think that's one of the things that you were asking.
Laura (47:19):
Plus, you know, being involved in the synagogue, you know, and my grandmother was part of the sisterhood and, you know, Claire and Madeleine were part of the sisterhood and my mother Mira was part of this, you know, so there was that. And then, um, you know, taking like art classes or things like that, you know, little things. I think that the one thing that I do remember about my grandparents was that if there was something that was difficult, it was not something that they would speak about. So if there was something, if there was conflict, if there was something that was really a challenge, that was something that they would keep to themselves and that was not something that they would share or discuss.
Lisette Shashoua (47:54):
With their children I would imagine.
Laura (47:54):
If their children knew about it, then they would know, but it wasn't something that they would highlight. So if, you know, whenever, if there was any type of difficulty, if they weren't accepted, if they were, that's not something that they wanted to impart to us or discuss with us. It was really about pride, pride in yourself, pride where you came from, in your heritage. Um, but if there was like conflict or anything like that, I think that the message was more be proud of who you are and know where you came from. And that, that in a sense, was the leading message as opposed to that other people might not accept you or might not want you, it's like lead with your best foot you know, forward I think. I don't know if that answer is the, some of the questions that you were thinking.
Lisette Shashoua (48:42):
It's perfect because this is, what, what Meyer is telling us is what his parents taught him. And you are telling us what they passed on to you as a second generation. And since this has been taped, it's great. But maybe you'd like to tell us about the Friday nights if you feel like talking about it. We don't want to tire you out either.
Mayer Lawee (49:03):
No, I'd rather Laura do it because she's, she, she announces it better. And I don't mind if she just sits in my place and she tells it.
Laura (49:10):
No, it's okay then, oh, you do it. It's okay, you do it dad.
Mayer Lawee (49:13):
All right.
Lisette Shashoua (49:14):
No, it yeah, okay.
Mayer Lawee (49:15):
Okay. Uh, Laura, uh, is very concise in that point of view. Mother did, was the bond for the family, my father and mother were bond of the family. Friday nights was a standard or important part of our lives. The children, the grandchildren would all come for Friday night dinner. And, uh, if they all came there was a separate table set aside in the, in the hall, because we were, we couldn't all sit around the table. It was always a buffet meal. We tried at the beginning to serve it and that didn't work too well.
Lisette Shashoua (50:04):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (50:06):
It was just too many and too long. So it resolved itself as a buffet, go help yourselves.
Lisette Shashoua (50:11):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (50:13):
And, uh, we all met and, uh, I made a few points every weekend, every Friday night playing backgammon because Morris and Jack and myself had a continuous backgammon game going every evening, every Friday evening. And $1 or $2 would change hands.
Lisette Shashoua (50:34):
And who would win usually?
Mayer Lawee (50:36):
Oh, depending. Morris was always the lucky one.
Lisette Shashoua (50:39):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (50:40):
He'd ask for a double six and that would, would show up.
Lisette Shashoua (50:43):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (50:45):
And, uh, but that's where the bond was. I mean, we all got together on Friday nights, the grandchildren, uh-
Laura (50:54):
The barbecue.
Mayer Lawee (50:56):
... enjoyed the barbecues, as well as the, uh, the dinners. They didn't like, uh, not, uh, going out on Friday nights. They didn't have to measure themselves and go after, after the meal. So they, they would go out around 8:30, nine o'clock every night, every Friday night they'd disappear.
Lisette Shashoua (51:19):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (51:19):
And go out on the town. And it was, as Laura says, the, uh, the base, it was the family, what, what would you call it? The glue as they say. It was a tradition that we all kept not only on our side, but on the other side, and the other house right beside us, because the Kaduri's they're right beside my father.
Lisette Shashoua (51:46):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (51:49):
And Kaduri did the same thing, Friday night all his kids all went there and the grandchildren. And then the summer we'd communicate between the two in the garden, we talk after dinner.
Lisette Shashoua (52:03):
Lovely. That's Fridays, but also during the week, obviously.
Mayer Lawee (52:07):
My mothers, my mother always liked Friday tea. I mean, there'd be tea at 4:35 o'clock, my sisters would show up and my father would come to the office, from the office around 4:30, five o'clock and they'd all have tea together.
Lisette Shashoua (52:25):
So this the British, the British way.
Laura (52:29):
Yeah. The British way. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (52:30):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Mayer Lawee (52:31):
Yeah. No, they all, you know, Poona was, uh, if you go back to, you know, living the family during the war, the, around the hotel in Bombay, but they go to Poona, which is like uh, a resort if you want to call it.
Lisette Shashoua (52:59):
Like so, so there were forests?
Mayer Lawee (53:01):
Correct. But there we would ride elephants, we wouldn't ride- (laughs)
Lisette Shashoua (53:07):
Cars.
Mayer Lawee (53:08):
... cars.
Lisette Shashoua (53:08):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (53:09):
And, uh, the monkeys would, uh, sit in the way, in the trees and create problems.
Lisette Shashoua (53:16):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (53:17):
One day, my mother left the blinds up, they were bamboo blinds and she was doing her makeup and powder and she forgot to lock the door and close the blinds. And when she came back after breakfast, the, uh, bamboos the, uh-
Laura (53:38):
The monkeys.
Mayer Lawee (53:40):
... the monkeys were sitting at her table putting on the makeup.
Lisette Shashoua (53:44):
(laughs) Oh my gosh.
Mayer Lawee (53:47):
It was quite a, quite a story.
Lisette Shashoua (53:48):
(laughs) God, I wonder if they took pictures. That must have been amazing.
Mayer Lawee (53:54):
No, my father took a lot of pictures, but they were all in those days, cards were so small. It was, you can't really benefit with them anymore, their images, let's put it that way.
Lisette Shashoua (54:06):
You have them?
Mayer Lawee (54:07):
Oh, I have quite a few old pictures that I've been able to save.
Lisette Shashoua (54:12):
Fantastic. Morris used to take a lot of pictures too.
Mayer Lawee (54:16):
Hmm, he was a photographer. He, he, he photographed everything from his toes to wherever he went.
Lisette Shashoua (54:22):
(laughs)
Mayer Lawee (54:23):
He had more photographs than anybody in the world.
Lisette Shashoua (54:26):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (54:27):
But he enjoyed it and he loved reminiscing and going over them, he enjoyed it. It was very nice. Claire maintain the albums to this day, till she passed.
Lisette Shashoua (54:40):
There was some, uh, movies too that they've taken. But I think they threw them out.
Laura (54:46):
I, I saved some from um, Kazam so I have to, I told David and, um, Henry that I would have them.
Lisette Shashoua (54:53):
There were some from Baghdad, I don't know.
Laura (54:54):
I'm going to see what's on them. I don't know what's on them.
Lisette Shashoua (54:57):
I still remember there was a, a boat trip and we were all kids and we were all jumping around. I began to see it and then we stopped somewhere and I was always hoping one day I find it. And then I was told they throw a lot of, of the, of those big reels.
Mayer Lawee (55:17):
Well, also one 16 millimeter films-
Lisette Shashoua (55:19):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (55:20):
... disappeared and those, they sort of disappeared with them.
Lisette Shashoua (55:24):
Yeah, they disintegrate, right?
Mayer Lawee (55:24):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (55:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Is there, what about Passover and everything? Same as Shabbat, I assume.
Mayer Lawee (55:32):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (55:33):
Yeah.
Mayer Lawee (55:33):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (55:34):
Well, it sounds like a, a lovely family uh, you know.
Mayer Lawee (55:39):
We were a tight family.
Lisette Shashoua (55:40):
Yes.
Laura (55:41):
I think that they were very, um, in some ways, very like insular, but because they had each other and they, and they, I think when you're on the run and you grow up, don't just grow up in the same home but you're moving like as immigrants from area to, you really rely on the people that are there.
Lisette Shashoua (56:00):
Yes.
Laura (56:01):
Like, who are your, you know, they're your family, they're your friends, they're your partner, they're your everything. So their relationship was very unique. And so then maybe that's why they don't have this sense of not necessarily needing to be with people from the outside, but they were such a big group, just them that they probably, I mean, we grew up watching them together. And so I don't think that the sense of like, oh, what was the outside?
Laura (56:26):
I always said, what, it couldn't have been the way you always describe it, it had to have been different, but it wasn't something that was necessarily like discussed, you know. Whereas a lot of people couldn't bring their carpets out. They couldn't bring like, you know, like silver, they couldn't bring jewelry, I mean, they couldn't get things out. We were very fortunate that we have a lot of things that we were able to get out you know, like at the time. I think that was a question that you were referring to.
Lisette Shashoua (56:49):
Yeah. Yeah.
Laura (56:49):
Like, you know, so I mean to have all these carpets it's like, it's an amazing thing to have the carpets.
Lisette Shashoua (56:54):
Of course.
Laura (56:54):
Or even to be able to have a picture or to be able to have like anything that's tangible, that's an amazing gift. You know, that's-
Lisette Shashoua (57:01):
A lot of people who escaped-
Laura (57:03):
... were, were not able to bring anything.
Lisette Shashoua (57:04):
... at my time were not able to bring their pictures out.
Laura (57:07):
To bring anything.
Lisette Shashoua (57:07):
Yes.
Laura (57:07):
Or Iran, you know people couldn't get-
Lisette Shashoua (57:09):
And some of them had to burn them-
Laura (57:10):
... right.
Lisette Shashoua (57:10):
... before they left.
Laura (57:12):
Because we were lucky that we were able to get, um, you know, enough, um, either memorabilia or specialty items that those things that you know, could be preserved, that could be preserved.
Lisette Shashoua (57:25):
And describes us. The, the photos describes who we are, describes where we come from. That's why I find them very important.
Mayer Lawee (57:34):
As an example, my mother got this from Persia, it's a tray and I put it in, made a table out of it.
Lisette Shashoua (57:42):
Is that silver?
Mayer Lawee (57:43):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (57:45):
It's magnificent. And I saw some silver bits of this, this must be Iraqi, it's like me now [crosstalk 00:57:52].
Mayer Lawee (57:52):
Yes it is.
Lisette Shashoua (57:54):
And the, uh, vases back there are, are Persian.
Mayer Lawee (57:57):
Correct. Correct.
Lisette Shashoua (57:59):
Yeah. No, it's, it's fabulous.
Mayer Lawee (58:00):
They all came from there.
Lisette Shashoua (58:01):
And the carpet is Iran, uh, Persian carpet, but maybe purchased in Iraq.
Mayer Lawee (58:06):
Yeah. My father used to buy carpets, all the carpets that we have here and also in Kaduri's house all came from-
Lisette Shashoua (58:14):
Do you know what this is?
Mayer Lawee (58:17):
... I think, I don't know. I'd rather not, I think it's Kashan but I don't know.
Lisette Shashoua (58:22):
Hmm, it could be Kashan, I think so. Yeah. It's an old Kashan.
Mayer Lawee (58:29):
Yeah. They're all, these are all new, my father bought them new in 1930.
Lisette Shashoua (58:36):
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So it's nearly 100 years.
Mayer Lawee (58:39):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (58:41):
75.
Mayer Lawee (58:42):
When he built the house in Baghdad, he bought the part, the carpets for the whole house.
Lisette Shashoua (58:47):
Oh, he built the house in 1930?
Mayer Lawee (58:49):
30, '32, or '33 my guess, because we got the franchises for General Motors in 19, yeah, 1934. He got this franchise for General Motors for Middle East.
Lisette Shashoua (59:09):
And then in Canada, what year?
Mayer Lawee (59:15):
Uh, '53, '50. Yeah, '53.
Lisette Shashoua (59:18):
Hmm, wonderful three, four generations. Anything else you, either of you would like to add?
Mayer Lawee (59:25):
No, it's fine.
Lisette Shashoua (59:27):
Thank you so much-
Mayer Lawee (59:28):
Thank you.
Lisette Shashoua (59:28):
... for taking the time and for giving us such a wonderful interview Mayer.
Mayer Lawee (59:33):
Thank you very much for having us.
Lisette Shashoua (59:36):
Thank you.