Cleaned by: Mariel Langer
Transcribed by: Temi
Interview date: September 22nd, 2022
Interviewer: Lisette Shashoua
Location: Montreal, QC
Total time: 1:42:00
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:17):
Could you please start with telling us your name, your place of birth, date of birth?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:00:24):
Uh, my name is Maryse Ouaknine, born Azuli. And, um, my place of birth was Cairo, Egypt in 1948.
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:35):
Um, okay. Can you tell us something about your family's background, uh, you know, your grandparents, uh, your, where, where you grew up?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:00:50):
Well, we grew up, we lived in Cairo, uh, which is the capital of Egypt. And we had, um, a beautiful life. My grandparents were there from a couple of centuries already. My father was born in Egypt. My, my mother was born in Lebanon, and, um, they were, they owned businesses, uh, retail, they had stores. And, um, they were very comfortable. They had a very nice life, uh, very active socially. And, uh, I mean, I remember the dressing up to go out at night, having wonderful, uh, evenings in the dinners. And it, it was a lovely life. And, um, they worked, they had stores. My father owned two stores of, um, of his own for, um, retail and, um, clothing, men's stores in Cairo. And my, my mother was working in an, also in a retail store, but it was hers as well. And, um, it was a good life. We lived with my grandmother in, uh, in, uh, her apartment. And, um, myself, my, and my sister Claudie, and my parents and my grandmother who took good care of us.
Lisette Shashoua (00:02:35):
Were you able to get a, uh, passport, an Egyptian passport?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:02:40):
No. Being Jewish, we were not allowed to be citizens of the country. We did not have a passport, and we were basically a la mercy, we, we had to, for example, to leave. You needed, you needed special papers to leave and special papers to come back. So,
Lisette Shashoua (00:03:08):
Even though you've been there for 2000 years,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:03:12):
We were, uh, yeah, we, we just, we were not citizens of Egypt.
Lisette Shashoua (00:03:19):
Thank you. Um, what do you remember about your grandparents? Any vivid memories or anecdotes, um, of life there with your grandparents with,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:03:34):
Well, I don't remember my grandfather because he died before I was born. But, uh, my grandmother, we lived with her and she was pretty active in our day-to-day life. Uh, for example, I remember her giving us, um, our goutez, our, our snack when we came home from school. And it consisted of a, a big glass of tea. And to this day, I try to, to emulate her, you know, when she makes the tea. It was a certain color with milk up until today. I tried to do it. And just yesterday, I, I made tea and I exclaimed, Hey, it's exactly the same color. Anyway, that was, uh, the kind of thing. She used to prepare little, um, little, little pieces of bread with chocolate inside for our, uh, our recess. And she used to cook like, unbelievable. And basically, uh, she was there. Like, I was born very, very small. And my, uh, I was premature. And the doctor had said, you know, you have to feed her the, the juice of, um, of, uh, a cow <laugh>. Anyway, she would actually squeeze the meat and make me drink the, you know, to, pour te fortifier. And it was, I remember her being so caring and careful with us, and my sister and I, she was a wonderful presence. And, uh, she came to visit us once when after we left Egypt, she came to visit us once in, in, um, Montreal. It was lovely.
Lisette Shashoua (00:05:40):
Thank you. So she stayed in, uh, Egypt.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:05:43):
She stayed in Egypt. We were kicked out in '56. And, um, because we were kicked out, uh, we left in 48 hours. Uh, she basically, she stayed behind so that, uh, she had other children there, not just my father. And we were the ones kicked out. They didn't, they were there still for a few more years. And, um, she lived with, uh, another sibling of my father. Another, she lived with her, her daughter came to live with her. Anyway, it was, uh, that's it.
Lisette Shashoua (00:06:35):
Thank you. Any vivid memories of school, of religious activities, of Shabbat, of the holidays?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:06:48):
Well, let's start with, um, the holidays. I remember every year at, uh, Yom Kippur time, we used to have a rabbi come to the house and he would cut the head off a few chickens and, uh, make the blessing and yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:07:10):
Turn it around.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:07:11):
Turn it around, exactly. And, uh, and in terms of holidays, we used to my grandmother and my mother, they were amazing cooks. And they made, uh, like, for example, a <inaudible>. Do you, have you ever heard of <inaudible>? It's something incredible. But you look at it if you are a stranger to it, and ugh. But it's something incredible. Trust me,
Lisette Shashoua (00:07:46):
I know the taste.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:07:47):
Oh, fantastic. Anyway, um, in terms of, uh, holidays, I never went to the synagogue as a child. I don't remember going to synagogue. I know my parents were married in, um, at, uh, uh, a beautiful synagogue on Adly Street in Cairo, and it's called the Sha'ar Hashamayim. And, um, it, we went to visit it in 2008, just beautiful, a huge carpet that had been donated. A beautiful Persian carpet donated by this lady that, who happens to be a good friend of my mother's who has since passed away. But she came to Canada, and the carpet when we went, was still there. And it was in the picture, my mother's, um, uh, wedding picture at the synagogue. The carpet was there. It was already there. And it's just, it sends shivers up my spine. I am. It's amazing.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:01):
You have a picture of that carpet that you can show us in the
Maryse Ouaknine (00:09:04):
I will, I, I think you can see it in the picture that I have of my parents getting married.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:12):
You didn't take one when you went to visit?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:09:15):
Actually, I only found out after <laugh> when I went to visit. I didn't know <laugh>, but, uh, it was, um, not something that the, in my family, the kids didn't go to synagogue. And, uh, that's it. So my first, my first, uh, what do you call it? Memory, memory of synagogue is here, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That's it.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:45):
What about, uh, Shabbat and the holidays? What did you do then?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:09:49):
For Shabbat? We did, we made a beautiful dinner. We, my, my, you know, my grandmother <laugh>. And, uh, we would make, uh, special foods like <inaudible>, you know, um, stuffed onions, stuffed vegetables we would make, uh, there was always rice. We always had rice. And, um, it, it was very, very, um, convivial. It was a lovely time to grow up.
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:26):
So, Shabbat, you used to have, have people over, or like the family over Shabbat night or Shabbat Day or?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:10:34):
We had, we had, uh, our family and we got together for the holidays, like for Passover, for Shabbat, for, uh, Yom Kippur to break the fast, you know, it was, it was
Lisette Shashoua (00:10:53):
Passover,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:10:54):
Family time, Passover, absolutely. And, um, that, that was our traditions. It, we were not necessarily, um, very observant Jews, but we had traditions and we liked to follow them.
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:15):
Very nice. Okay. Tell me about your parents. How did they meet? How did they get married? Uh,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:11:25):
My parents
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:26):
And your, your the names, or their names, their profession.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:11:30):
My mother was born in Beirut, and they lost, she lost her father. And anyway, they came to Canada to, um, Egypt and, um, to continue their life there. And she met my, my father who, who was one of six children. And, um, it wasn't a big love affair, but it was, uh, you know, a, a marriage and they got a match. A match, if you will. And they, uh, um, I mean, they went out. They, they always went out in groups because, you know, you needed chaperones in those days. And, uh, then they got married and, and had me. And the rest is history and
Lisette Shashoua (00:12:27):
The names,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:12:28):
And they are Okay. Margo Halak and Maurice Azuli.
Lisette Shashoua (00:12:37):
And Is Azuli Moroccan?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:12:39):
No, see Azuli, Azule, there are a lot of Azule in Morocco, but we are Azuli with <French>, two dots on the I, and, um, we are actually, uh, from Egypt.
Lisette Shashoua (00:12:56):
<laugh>. Okay. Thank you. And your parents, how old were they when they, when they got married?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:13:13):
Um, well, my, they're seven years apart, first of all. And my, they, my father was 27. Is that only 1920? 1947. 40, okay. So 1947. He was 27. And my mother was seven years younger. She was 20.
Lisette Shashoua (00:13:41):
And she worked in a retail store, uh, store. After that she owned?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:13:47):
Um, you mean when we came to Canada?
Lisette Shashoua (00:13:49):
No, no, no.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:13:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. In Egypt, yes. They had, um, all kinds of gifts, you know, uh, gift items.
Lisette Shashoua (00:13:57):
So the ladies in Egypt worked?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:14:02):
My mother worked. Yeah. A lot of women didn't. But my mother worked.
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:12):
And you have a sister Claudie?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:14:15):
Yes. I have a sister Claudie, who is, um, living in Vancouver presently. She's been there for many years. And, uh, she's a retired teacher and also an artist. She's an amazing artist.
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:33):
What does she do?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:14:35):
Well, you see, there's, um, anyway, she does culture. She does, um, all kinds of stuff. Right now she's into felting. Felting is, she takes wool and works it with her hands. And, uh, there's a whole <inaudible>. She makes beautiful, beautiful pictures.
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:02):
Wow.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:15:02):
Yeah. With colored wool.
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:06):
So you were close to each other till you came to Montreal.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:15:10):
And she moved to Vancouver.
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:11):
And how old were you then?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:15:13):
Um, we were, I was eight and she was six
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:17):
And then you stayed in Montreal? I mean, she left when?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:15:22):
She left. Um, I'll tell you, she got married, 1970, no, '81. She got married in 81. And she'd left a few years before.
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:46):
And the social circles your parents belonged to were friends, and what else? Any, uh,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:15:54):
Oh, you're talking about, uh, organizations? Uh,
Lisette Shashoua (00:15:59):
No, the social circles, where they went out and social circle, they went picnicking. They went traveling. What did
Maryse Ouaknine (00:16:06):
They did a lot of, there was, like, for example, the pyramids had a beautiful hotel, the Mena House, uh, right near it. And they would go, for example, to dance or to the cabaret or out for sumptuous dinners. And, um, there were card games. There were, um, yeah, it was, it was a very lovely, carefree life.
Lisette Shashoua (00:16:40):
Uh, were their friends all Jewish, or did they have non-Jewish friends?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:16:44):
You know, I, I was eight, so I am not, but it seems to me that they had a lot of Jewish friends. A lot of Jewish friends. But I remember, I mean, I'm sitting here saying everything was lovely, but there must have been a lot of angst, because I remember my father reading the newspaper, and there were blank areas in the paper. And what was it? Well, I thought they were blank, you know, finished. But this is censorship. This is censorship. Uh, with the eyes of an 8-year-old, you don't see it. But you know, when you analyze it later, you
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:32):
Were they blacked out? You mean blacked out?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:17:35):
No, just wiped out. There's, it was white. There was nothing.
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:39):
Censorship, yes. Censorship in, uh, Iraq. Anything to do with Israel, for instance. Uh, also, either the, the whole page was torn out, or, or the whole magazine did not come, or, or that's it. Mainly the pages are torn out. They didn't care. That's it. You know. And, you know, there's, there was something you, you are missing.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:18:05):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:18:08):
And what did you speak at home? What language? French?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:18:11):
We spoke French and, um, I, I didn't know a word of English at the time, but we had help at home. We had somebody, uh, you know, there was a cook, there was a, a cleaning lady. There was, uh, somebody for the children, a nanny. And a nanny. And we spoke Arabic with them.
Lisette Shashoua (00:18:37):
And at school?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:18:39):
And at school, I went to l, no, not Lycee Francais. I went to, um, <inaudible>, which was a, a French private school. And, uh, we learned French primarily, but there was also Arabic. And we were, as, when I left, we were starting to learn English. So I left with my whole baggage of, uh, of languages knowing ba ba black sheep have you any wool. That's it. That was my, the extent of my English
Lisette Shashoua (00:19:16):
<laugh>. And your friends, or your school friends? They were not all Jewish.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:19:24):
Not at all. No. There were from all walks of life, from, uh, from all kinds of, well, not all kinds of religions. Basically Muslim, Catholic, and Jewish.
Lisette Shashoua (00:19:41):
And this was a
Maryse Ouaknine (00:19:41):
And this was, it was a private school, and it was natural, normal, not a problem. Everybody were, was friends with, you know, the other, and it was fantastic.
Lisette Shashoua (00:19:55):
You came from to each other's homes for like, the play, play dates or whatever?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:20:00):
No, at that time, as I said, I was eight, and we did not socialize outside of school so much. I, I don't, you were young. I was young. I'm not sure that, uh, you know, if I had stayed, it would probably have been play dates, et cetera, but I was young, so no, we didn't.
Lisette Shashoua (00:20:28):
Um, did you have any favorite expressions at home or, idioms in the family, like
Maryse Ouaknine (00:20:35):
<laugh>. <inaudible>, we would say to the person who cooked, you know, it was delicious. And basically it means, thank you, your hands. You know, we thank the hands of the person who cooked long, live your hands, long, live your hands <inaudible>. And, uh, there were many, many expressions. I love Arabic expressions. So
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:00):
What else?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:21:01):
You know, which one I love <inaudible>. Do you know what it means? One day is, could be as good as honey, and the next day could be as, as, you know, like an onion. Yeah, as bad as
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:17):
Yeah as bad as sand
Maryse Ouaknine (00:21:18):
So this is a perfect, you know, <inaudible>
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:23):
Do you have any more,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:21:25):
Um,
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:26):
To enlighten us?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:21:28):
I could, I, let me think. <laugh>, um, uh, oh my gosh, I'm blanking.
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:38):
It's okay. It'll come when it comes. You tell us. Okay. Um, what about your friends at school? Did you speak French with them? Arabic?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:21:47):
French.
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:48):
French. Did you watch the Arabic, uh, movies that they had?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:21:55):
Uh, when we went to the movies, it was mainly French. French.
Lisette Shashoua (00:21:59):
Oh, you didn't see the Egyptian movies?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:22:03):
Uh, no. You know where, when I saw them, when I came to Canada <laugh> on tv. And so, you know, we were able to, to get it, you know, dubbed. Especially today, you could, you know, dub them or put subtitles. Perfect.
Lisette Shashoua (00:22:23):
<laugh>, uh, here it says, what do you remember about your schooling? What messages did the school try to bring across? Well, it was a international,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:22:43):
It was an international school. And, um, the, the teachers were very strict. We, we used to eat at, at the school, a school bus would pick us up at home, bring us to school on the way they would pick up, for example, cases of artichokes, <laugh>. And, uh, and we'd go to school. We knew what we would have for lunch. And, um, and I, they were, I remember strictness, but the, the principal was <inaudible> that means honey. She was amazing. She made me feel like 10 feet tall.
Lisette Shashoua (00:23:35):
Was she French?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:23:36):
She was French. She was a very nice lady. And, um, the kids in the school were very nice. We used to, we used to study together, work together, play together, and always very, very, um, togetherness, you know, friendship.
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:00):
So they actually cooked for you at school? You, you brought your own sweets.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:24:04):
Yes. Just that was recess. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But the meal was at school.
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:11):
So from what time to what time did you go from
Maryse Ouaknine (00:24:17):
It was about, I, I'm, I'm, don't quote me, but it was around eight o'clock in the morning. And until I, we would come home by about four.
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:31):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> long days.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:24:35):
Yeah. If I remember correctly,
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:37):
For elementary school, yes.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:24:39):
It was a lot of work.
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:42):
So tell me, you, did you belong to sports clubs, your parents to social clubs? Did they go like,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:24:50):
We used, used to belong to the, um, the, the, what was it called? The club? The club, the, le sporting club. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, there, and there were a few sporting clubs in, in the area. And so we belonged to one, and we used to go, there was a pool, we would swim, uh, play. It was lovely. And
Lisette Shashoua (00:25:18):
Have maybe lunch, dinner.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:25:21):
Yes. Have lunch. I remember one time we went for lunch, and my sister, my mother was knitting. She was a big knitter. And my sister was very inquisitive, and she went into a, well, at the restaurant outdoors, there was a well, and she fell in, and the, the waiter went and saved her. But she came out black, you know, with the mud. So my poor mother got her undressed, and, and she put on the sweater that she was knitting, but it was pure white <laugh>. So much for the white sweater, <laugh>. It was funny.
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:08):
What, what was she able to save it after?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:26:11):
Probably not
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:12):
<laugh>. Okay. The neighborhood you lived in, was it Jewish? Mainly non-Jewish?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:26:23):
It was, first of all, we were downtown. And, um, just downstairs from us was, um, a little cafe. And the cafe had all kinds of people. You could, you could take for example, a cafe Turc, a Turkish coffee, and it could be, you know, somebody with a <inaudible and a fez would come and, and basically, uh, orders coffee. Uh, could be a, a Jewish lady who would come in and buy her coffee, or it could, could be anybody. All kinds of people.
Lisette Shashoua (00:27:07):
Very international, very cosmopolitan.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:27:09):
Cosmopolitan.
Lisette Shashoua (00:27:10):
And the building you lived in was also,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:27:12):
Well, there were, um, all kinds of people also in our building. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I remember certain neighbors, but, uh,
Lisette Shashoua (00:27:25):
Any Jewish neighbors in, in the apartment building?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:27:28):
Yes, yes. There were Jewish neighbors, but there were also other. And, um, yeah, <laugh> to this day, I am trying to find them. You know, I have the name in my head of one of them, but I can't seem to find her on Facebook.
Lisette Shashoua (00:27:47):
Google,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:27:48):
Google. I'm, I'm gonna try again. But anyway, um, yeah, it was a very, it was downtown Cairo.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:01):
Do you remember the streets of the
Maryse Ouaknine (00:28:03):
Yes. I was at 48 <inaudible>. And if you ask for it today, it's probably changed names. It's, doesn't have the same name as before the, you know, now today, they, they will change it to the, for example, the revolution or, you know,
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:25):
Revolution Street. Yeah,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:28:26):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:31):
Did your parents have a special role in the community life? Like, you know, like in the community? Uh,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:28:41):
My, well, my grandfather was <inaudible> is a special, um,
Lisette Shashoua (00:28:51):
Title,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:28:53):
A special title reserved for the, a person who counsels the king. And at the time it was King Farouk. So my grandfather was a, a big guy, and he, uh, he had special privileges. I, you know, I presume my, but unfortunately he died very young. I think he was in his forties,
Lisette Shashoua (00:29:21):
And he was advising the king. And still he didn't have, uh, uh, an passport. Egyptian passport. Passport, citizenship, or passport.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:29:30):
No, no. So that, that's it. It's, uh, crazy. But that was it.
Lisette Shashoua (00:29:42):
Yeah.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:29:43):
Every summer we used to go to Alexandria.
Lisette Shashoua (00:29:47):
You were in Cairo?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:29:49):
We lived in Cairo, yes. I had an aunt and uncle who lived in Alexandria, and they basically, uh, they, they took us in myself, my sister, my cousin Robbie. We went for the, for the summer or for like three months sometimes. We used to spend three months at the beach. It was fantastic. How
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:16):
How far is, uh, Cairo and Alexandria?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:30:21):
Maybe, uh, maybe three, three hours drive, something like that. Across the desert.
Lisette Shashoua (00:30:29):
Wow. Across the Sinai desert?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:30:32):
No, Sahara Yeah. Okay. And we would go north and hit Cairo, uh, Alexandria. But what I was going to say was my uncle, my one of my uncles was, uh, the youngest one, my father's brother. Um, they accused him of having, um, uh, tendencies. Uh, well, he was accused of being a
Lisette Shashoua (00:31:04):
Zionist,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:31:06):
Apart from Zionist. Communist. So they actually waited for my aunt, who was quite a big lady in, in the community. They waited for her to go and give birth. She was pregnant at the time. And they, she went to the hospital. The, actually, we closed the door. She left the police, came to pick up my uncle, and he, uh, he was taken and imprisoned for five years. Five years.
Lisette Shashoua (00:31:46):
What year was that?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:31:47):
It was 1953, '54, something like that. He was imprisoned in, uh, I think it's called <inaudible>. It's a, a place in, in the desert somewhere. Very, very sad. We used to go visit him. My, my aunt was amazing. She would bring big baskets full of food, like chicken and fruits and vegetables, and we would go and visit. And he, it was near Aswan, actually, at the time. And how
Lisette Shashoua (00:32:27):
How far was that trip?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:32:31):
Far, it wasn't <French> it wasn't close, close an hour away, maybe more. And we would go visit, and the guard would take the food. I remember. So vis vividly my uncle in his cell on a, on the floor, on a, on a mattress about this size. And he would be lying there. And, um, we would come and visit. Here comes the guard with the food, and he'd take the chicken and eat it and throw my uncle the bone. I'll never forget that. And, um,
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:14):
Did he ever give your uncle the food?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:33:17):
Well, like I said, he gave the bones <laugh>, you know, it, it was, but Oh, but we felt compelled to, to bring, I mean, we, we had to bring, and, um, five years he stayed in the prison, and he left, he left the, with the, with the handcuffs. They put him on a boat to France, and he went to Paris.
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:44):
What year was that?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:33:46):
Um, 19, maybe early, early 60s.
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:54):
Now, I forgot to ask you, what year were you born?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:33:58):
'48.
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:59):
You were born in '48?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:34:00):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:34:00):
So you left in
Maryse Ouaknine (00:34:02):
'56.
Lisette Shashoua (00:34:04):
Ah, okay. We'll get to that, uh, more extensively. So it means you left after the Suez Canal. Yeah.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:34:11):
Yeah. Well, that, that's the reason we left.
Lisette Shashoua (00:34:12):
Yes. Yes. We'll, we'll, we'll get to the serious part soon. you obviously didn't have a bat mitzvah. <laugh>,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:34:29):
Obviously not <laugh>. Well, it could have happened here, but we, we didn't.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:34:40):
Did you?
Lisette Shashoua (00:34:42):
I had it, uh, 10 years ago here.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:34:48):
Mazeltov <laugh> with Esther <inaudible.>
Lisette Shashoua (00:34:50):
Yes.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:34:52):
Oh my goodness. Mazel tov.
Lisette Shashoua (00:34:55):
Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Now they're asking here again about traditions in your family, food, clothing, the food. Obviously even the grandchildren are still, uh, doing your, your grand, your mother's food, right? Oh,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:35:14):
Absolutely.
Lisette Shashoua (00:35:15):
Her recipes. Can you tell us about it? You
Maryse Ouaknine (00:35:18):
Sure. My mother turned, um, when she turned 85. She's 96 now. Uh, we made her a party. And what we did as a surprise for her, we copied, we photocopied her recipe book from A to Z. And, uh, we had, uh, um, the grand, we had a party for her and the grandchildren participated in making the food. So we looked at her recipe and made, you know, among the favorites. And the kids actually rolled the little cookies. They, they made Fila, which is, you know, like spanikopita with spinach filling and cheese filling. And the kids participated. And it, I mean, the party, yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:36:12):
They actually made the food that for the party, her recipes for the party.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:36:18):
Absolutely.
Lisette Shashoua (00:36:19):
Now, isn't that amazing?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:36:20):
Yes. And so there are pictures in the book, uh, with her recipes, along with the recipes. You see the kids making the food, and, uh, you see the table laden with the foods. It, it's really nice. My mother loved it. <laugh>.
Lisette Shashoua (00:36:41):
That's wonderful. Do you remember any, going to a bar mitzvah, a brit milah, a wedding? Do you remember any of that
Maryse Ouaknine (00:36:51):
In Egypt? Nada, like I, it was as if apart from the home, and like I said, the, the, the guy came, the rabbi came to, you know, with, uh, with thes chickens, the slaughtering the chickens. I had no idea about synagogues. It's, it's weird.
Lisette Shashoua (00:37:18):
How about there are no holy sites in, uh, in Egypt? Or are there,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:37:24):
There's a Jewish cemetery. There's synagogues. In fact, uh, the Ben Ezra synagogue in Cairo was incredible because they, they found the Geniza there. And, you know,
Lisette Shashoua (00:37:38):
What is the Geniza?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:37:40):
The Geniza is, it's a a where sometimes the, the, in the Jewish religion, if you have papers that you don't need anymore that have to do with religion or a book that's old and torn. Torn, yeah. You, you take all these papers, you don't dispose of them. You put them for safekeeping, if you will, in a special room compartment, which was found in, with tons and tons of papers in the, in the, uh, synagogue, Ben Ezra synagogue. And it was a treasure trove of information.
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:23):
Where is the
Maryse Ouaknine (00:38:25):
Ben Ezra synagogue?
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:26):
No, where are what they found the Geniza, they, they must have found some Torah scrolls as well, that were
Maryse Ouaknine (00:38:35):
Yes. Yes. Uh, where are they today? I think some of them are still there, but I think some of them went on to Israel.
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:47):
I think they were being analyzed or something. They were being,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:38:51):
Absolutely.
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:52):
Uh, because the Torah scrolls., You are not supposed to, like you said, you're not supposed to,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:38:58):
You can't throw them out.
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:59):
No. Usually they bury them. But this Geniza was really a treasure trove.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:39:05):
Um, unbelievable. Yes. But today, you can't just enter synagogue. You have to have permission. Like when we went to see the, um, um, Sha'ar Hashamayim where my parents got married, we had to make an appointment with the police and, and give our passport numbers and IDs, and it was very serious business.
Lisette Shashoua (00:39:40):
Wow. It's good they let you go in.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:39:43):
And I was not allowed to photograph.
Lisette Shashoua (00:39:47):
Oh, that's why you couldn't get the carpet.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:39:49):
That's maybe that was it. You know what? But I honestly, it was scary. That's why, you know, you asked me before if I wanted to go back. I went in 2008 after. I hadn't been back since 1956. But no, I'm, I've closed the page, the book. It's finished. I don't feel the urge.
Lisette Shashoua (00:40:20):
Do you have any unique superstitions in the family? Or that you remember any superstitions, any special little expression? Uh,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:40:30):
When my mother passed it on to us, when you sneeze, you go like this
Lisette Shashoua (00:40:36):
<laugh>. And why
Maryse Ouaknine (00:40:39):
You? It's against the evil eye somehow. I don't know why, but Yeah. When you sneeze. And so my kids are doing it, and they pass it on to their kids. It's, it's very funny. Um, that's one, one thing that my mother used to do and still does. Um, my mother used to light incense called <inaudible>. And you go around the house and, uh, make it, uh, again, it's against the evil eye, you know? So that, that was something that, uh, she did to avert les malleurs.
Lisette Shashoua (00:41:31):
Did they use lead in any way? They used to.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:41:35):
Lead?
Lisette Shashoua (00:41:36):
Yeah. They used to boil something.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:41:39):
No, I don't, I don't know
Lisette Shashoua (00:41:40):
That also for the evil I saw, maybe not in Egypt.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:41:43):
She also, when, when a baby was born, was imperative to put a little blue stone in a little safety pin. And tack it onto the bed somehow.
Lisette Shashoua (00:41:56):
Yes. That's also,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:41:57):
That was against the evil eye.
Lisette Shashoua (00:41:58):
Yes. Yes. Protection. Protection. These are really very quaint little stories. Um, obviously you, nobody from the family belonged to any Jewish or Zionist organizations?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:42:19):
Well, like I said, my, my uncle was accused of being a communist, and he was very Zionist.
Lisette Shashoua (00:42:27):
So, but did he belong to, was there a Zionist?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:42:30):
There was.
Lisette Shashoua (00:42:32):
Organization.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:42:32):
There was, but I,
Lisette Shashoua (00:42:34):
In the fifties.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:42:35):
In the fifties. But not, uh, not overtly, you know, it had to be very hush hush.
Lisette Shashoua (00:42:46):
But he wasn't communist or was he?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:42:48):
No. Well, he had, he had ideas. Not communist in the sense of, uh, the big picture, but,
Lisette Shashoua (00:42:57):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:42:57):
He, his thoughts, you know, encompassed, uh, having
Lisette Shashoua (00:43:04):
Equality,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:43:05):
Equality for people. <affirmative>.
Lisette Shashoua (00:43:08):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. How did your family view the state of Israel?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:43:15):
There was not too much time for discussion as to where we would go after leaving Egypt. But Israel was one of the, uh, you know, places that we were contemplating. But we ended up in Canada because, uh, my aunt was here and she sponsored us. So we were able to, to come here. And, uh, in fact, oh, my aunt was incredible. She had prepared a whole apartment for us with, we laugh today with tears in our eyes, because my sister and I, we tell her, even, even the sugar in the sugar bowl was filled, you know, the, the sugar bowl was filled with sugar. It was amazing. We even, we had a television set in 1956.
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:17):
Wow. In the, in the apartment, new apartment that you came to? Yeah,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:44:22):
Yeah. The beds were made. There were linen in the, in the linen closet, uh, the food, in the fridge, everything as if it was lived in, you know, anyway. Yeah. How lovely. Yeah. But Israel was, was in the picture, but we ended up here.
Lisette Shashoua (00:44:44):
So really in, in, in Egypt. You did not talk much about Israel between you at all.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:44:51):
No. No.
New Speaker (00:44:51):
It was not a subject that came up. You are not,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:44:55):
No, and as a matter of fact, we were constantly surrounded by, uh, by the, the, the help. And they were Muslim. It was difficult, you know, to talk openly. And I, I mean, there were incidences, for example, when we were, um, I forgot what year it was, but I must have been about four years old or so. And so that would've made it, uh, like '52. There were, there were big demonstrations outside our window. We were downtown
Lisette Shashoua (00:45:37):
52, even before 56.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:45:39):
Yes. There were. They, they, ugh, it was just terrible. Like a sea of people that, that were traveling and yelling about, uh, you know, the, the, the king had to go. And it was terrible.
Lisette Shashoua (00:45:57):
When was Farouk <inaudible>
Maryse Ouaknine (00:46:00):
Uh, when Gamal Abdel Nasser came.
Lisette Shashoua (00:46:03):
Came. What year was that?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:46:03):
Was, what year was it?
Lisette Shashoua (00:46:06):
Must have been '52,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:46:08):
Uh, maybe '53. '53, something like that. Because we left in '56. Anyway, those demonstrations, we, we stood at the balcony and looked down and, and we could see people pointing at our store, which was just downstairs. And they said, that's a Jewish store, Jewish owned. And so they burnt it. It, it, like, you know,
Lisette Shashoua (00:46:44):
And this is before anything happened before Gamal Adbel Nasser
Maryse Ouaknine (00:46:50):
We built it. Yeah. No, Gamal Abdel. Yeah. Before. Yes. And it was the, the Muslim Brotherhood. Anyway, it was not a fun time, you know, I remember walking with my father hand in hand, and we were coming back from his store, and he, which was not far from our house, and all of a sudden there was a beggar lady, a a lady was begging on the floor. She had a baby in her arms. And, you know, nice. I mean, a lady begging, all of a sudden she starts yelling, that's him, that's him. Police. And she's yelling. The police
Lisette Shashoua (00:47:44):
Came,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:47:44):
Came,
Lisette Shashoua (00:47:46):
Oh my god,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:47:47):
Handcuffed my father. And they went, uh, we, we went to the police station, but my father knew he needed baksheesh, which is, you know, um, he had to paint, bribe, a little bribe. You know the word, huh? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> bribe. And he actually, we, we were able to get out of, you know, we, we did not go into jail, but,
Lisette Shashoua (00:48:12):
So the woman that begs, I'm sure your father gave her money at some point, if she, you know, maybe. 'cause they always have their area and.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:48:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Lisette Shashoua (00:48:23):
The same people sit in the same area, and that's just passes by, give them money.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:48:28):
And it's the same people who pass by. So certainly my father must have, but this is the kind of atmosphere we lived in. You know, things were <inaudible>. One day honey, and one day not, not,
Lisette Shashoua (00:48:49):
And so when the, they burnt, they burned the store in front of your very eyes. You were upstairs.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:48:56):
Yes. I mean, they didn't see that we lived upstairs.
Lisette Shashoua (00:48:58):
They didn't know you saw it.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:49:00):
Yeah. And they, they burnt wherever they thought belonged to Jews.
Lisette Shashoua (00:49:07):
And you just, of course, there's no insurance there.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:49:11):
<laugh>. Are you kidding me? No insurance. Yeah. Anyway, this was it. So we, we started over and, you know, and then one day in the middle of the night, we heard, we heard, um, a knock on the door. And it was the police coming in the middle of the night to give us papers saying that we had 48 hours to leave the country. 48 hours. So we go down, my father went down to, to work my mother. And everything is locked up. Or there are, um, <inaudible>, how do you say that?
Lisette Shashoua (00:49:53):
Yes. Yeah. There, it's chained up,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:49:56):
All chained up. And we're not allowed. It's, it's nationalized.
Lisette Shashoua (00:50:01):
So when they told you 48 hours, you didn't believe it, I mean, went to work or you went to see what was going on?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:50:07):
Well, we went to see what was doing. My parents went to see what was doing.
Lisette Shashoua (00:50:12):
And it was it was national. And, okay, tell us when this happened.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:50:17):
This happened, we left in December, 1956. So this happened two days before.
Lisette Shashoua (00:50:27):
Okay. But, but the Suez Canal,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:50:30):
Uh, the Suez Crisis
Lisette Shashoua (00:50:32):
Was when? In '56. Yes. But when in '56?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:50:36):
Uh, I'm not sure.
Lisette Shashoua (00:50:40):
So, but it was like two, three months before?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:50:43):
Maybe. Things were, were starting, people were starting to know that they had to leave. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, the Jews. Without the Jews, no, but not only the Jews. There were, you know, no, it's a fallacy to think it was only the Jews, because there were other, like the co the, um, what do you call. But apart from the Copts, the Armenians, the, the, you know, like if you were not Muslim, you had to leave.
Lisette Shashoua (00:51:13):
The minority started to feel it,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:51:15):
And you had to leave. And people tried to discredit it, but no, it, it was right there. We had to leave and we were forced out. But some people were able to think ahead and, and left plan ahead. Plan ahead and left of their own volition. And they were able to, because like I said, you need, if you don't have a passport, you can't leave, but you have to leave. So you need a special paper.
Lisette Shashoua (00:51:50):
So how do you leave? You have to get a permit to leave
Maryse Ouaknine (00:51:54):
You need a permit to leave. And if you don't have the permit, you can't leave. And then if you don't leave, I guess you get,
Lisette Shashoua (00:52:01):
And once you leave, you need the permit to come back.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:52:05):
But you don't get the permit. It, you don't, it's the paper that's stamped for you at that point says you do not come back.
Lisette Shashoua (00:52:17):
Yeah. No return. No return. Return return. No return. No return. No return. Yeah. They did it in every country in Iraq, too. Oh, one way
Maryse Ouaknine (00:52:28):
My, I think one of my worst memories, and I still hear it, is at the airport. We were, I was eight, my sister was six. We're sitting, I'm sitting with my doll, I'll tell you about my doll in a minute. And all of a sudden I'm hearing screams. And what was it? It was a family. They were going to X-ray them, because the X-ray would show if they swallowed their diamonds. And I just hear the, the, the screams in my head
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:10):
Of the people who are leaving,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:53:12):
Of the people who are leaving and waiting at the airport, and they're about to be taken for an X-ray. And, and all of a sudden you, you hear the screaming, because, you know, yeah, she swallowed.
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:28):
Were they Jewish?
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:29):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:31):
So what did they do to them? Do you know?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:53:33):
I don't know. I don't know.
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:36):
Tell us now, the '56 Suez Canal, uh, um, crisis? Yes. Crisis. Uh, there was a crisis with Israel and
Maryse Ouaknine (00:53:51):
The, the, the canal was built. The Suez Canal was built by the British, I believe. And, and the Egyptians wanted monopoly. They wanted to have a complete autonomy regarding the Sue Canal. And, um, the, unfortunately it didn't sit right with the Israel and Britain and France, and they wanted nothing. They did not want to give monopoly of the Suez Canal. And so the Egyptians went to war, and they actually, you know, were bombarding each other. In fact, we were at home, and every night we had to put away our lights. Everything had to be closed. We couldn't, uh, there was a siren that would go off and we would have to be, uh, completely in the dark. And, uh, if there wasn't, you could, you know, they could easily see the, a little pinprick of a light and bombard us.
Lisette Shashoua (00:55:13):
Hmm. Who would bombard you?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:55:16):
Uh, the is Israel. So there was a war going on.
Lisette Shashoua (00:55:22):
Israel or, or, or America, I mean, or, or, uh, England. England. England. Or France. Yeah. One of the three.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:55:32):
It was, yes, they were together. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> an Alliance. But anyway,
Lisette Shashoua (00:55:40):
So that affected how the Jews were being treated in
Maryse Ouaknine (00:55:45):
That totally affected the Jew. Yes. The Jews were not accepted. Period. They wanted them out and out we went.
Lisette Shashoua (00:55:55):
But now, why did they give you 48 hours? Was it because your uncle was in prison?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:56:03):
Oh, I, no, they
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:04):
Was it his brother, your
Maryse Ouaknine (00:56:06):
There were people who were chosen to be, you know, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> to, to leave right away. And, and some people, like I had my, my grandmother, my aunt, uh, my aunt in Alexandria, where we went every summer. They left in, in the early sixties, uh, I don't know. They gave us 48 hours.
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:30):
How about your uncle whom they clutched and sent out?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:56:35):
Well, he was in prison by that time.
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:37):
Yes. But does it have to do anything to do, is is your father's brother?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:56:43):
Yes, he's my father's brother.
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:45):
Is that, is that the same time or he, he was sent out. My
Maryse Ouaknine (00:56:49):
My father had six. They were six siblings. And my father was given 48 hours, but not the others.
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:58):
Yes. I understand. But your uncle, uh, was it the same time when they kicked him out, while he was out of the ho out of the,
Maryse Ouaknine (00:57:07):
No, this was earlier when my uncle was imprisoned. And we were, yes. I remember going to visit him with my aunt.
Lisette Shashoua (00:57:16):
Yeah. And when he was sent out, when he was kicked out, was it the same time? Oh, oh, your dad.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:57:24):
It was five years after that. No, he was kicked out. We, we left before he was. Yeah, he was still in prison. And then poor guy. Anyway, he didn't last long after that.
Lisette Shashoua (00:57:43):
Where did he go?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:57:45):
They sent him to France. Okay. And he, he went to Paris where his brother and his sister were living. Mm-And, uh, he went there and, um, he was sick, sickly,
Lisette Shashoua (00:58:03):
And from the prison.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:58:05):
Yes. He, he, he developed diabetes. He, he developed a lot of illnesses. And he died. He died. He was so young. Anyway. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:58:23):
Okay. So tell us, once you got here, you came by boat, by plane. How did you come?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:58:29):
We came with the Red Cross. Mm-Hmm. We took a flight to, uh, to, uh, Paris. To Paris with TWA. We were, I remember turbulence like crazy. And I was only allowed to bring one, one of my toys. It was a doll. The stewardess was extremely nice. And she warmed up my dolls, <inaudible> bottle <laugh>, very sweet. But in return, I was the only one who was not, uh, air sick. So I helped her with everybody who was sick.
Lisette Shashoua (00:59:15):
At eight years old.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:59:16):
At Eight years old.
Lisette Shashoua (00:59:17):
Who was everybody, your family?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:59:19):
No, the whole plane. The, the whole plane was completely, um, air sick, you know, suffered from air sickness because there was so much turbulence. And so I walked around and offered bags, and, you know.
Lisette Shashoua (00:59:37):
Oh, how sweet.
Maryse Ouaknine (00:59:39):
I'm telling you, <laugh>. Anyway, uh, we arrived in Paris, and I did have an uncle there, but it was the Red Cross that took us in. And
Lisette Shashoua (00:59:51):
How come, how did the Red Cross know?
Maryse Ouaknine (00:59:53):
The Red Cross? We were refugees. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we were, um, a plane full of refugees. Practically.
Lisette Shashoua (01:00:02):
Everybody else was kicked out.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:00:05):
Yeah. A lot Jews, people, a lot of people. Mainly Jews. Mainly Jews. And we, I remember being taken in by the Red Cross in a big gymnasium that was converted into a, a shelter for us with sheets separating, making cubicles, you know, and the sheets, uh, separated different families. So we, we had not very much privacy. And I remember, uh, staying there for, for several weeks before they moved us to Vichy. And in Vichy we lived in a hotel, and yes, at one point in a hotel in Paris as well. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, we didn't stay a whole, the whole time in the cubicles. But it was tough, you know, I remember my mother cooking hard boiled eggs in a little, in a little electric pot and, uh, in the hotel room. And she would make Turkish coffee in the hotel room in that little pot. Anyway, it was, it was tough. And of course, my parents weren't allowed to work, so we basically had a little, a little money we didn't bring, we brought with us the equivalent of maybe $5. Oh my God. Each.
Lisette Shashoua (01:01:36):
Oh my God.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:01:37):
That's it. And one suitcase,
Lisette Shashoua (01:01:40):
You didn't have any cash, or you weren't allowed.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:01:43):
Weren't allowed. They took everything. I don't know how my mother came with, with like a ring, you know, I don't, I don't know how she did that, but she did. But we, she, we left with nothing. We left everything behind. Hmm. Yeah. So, um,
Lisette Shashoua (01:02:05):
What a familiar expression, which we left everything behind
Maryse Ouaknine (01:02:09):
We, and that's exactly exact, you know about that. Yes. So many people have had the same experience. And I'm glad we're talking about it, because this is something that shouldn't be forgotten and pushed under the carpet. It happened. It happened. And to this day, it, I mean, it, it affects me. It affects me to know that I, I never said goodbye to my best friend. Never said goodbye. And I can't even find her on, you know, Facebook.
Lisette Shashoua (01:02:48):
Wow.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:02:50):
And as a kid, I didn't even know her last name. Oh. So, you know, it's, it's hard. Anyway,
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:00):
What about the commu? So you left your home. You left, which belonged to you? The apartment now?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:03:08):
Yes. It, it belonged to my grandparents.
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:10):
Okay. You left your cars, your assets. Can you tell me the bank accounts, furniture, antiques, all of that?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:03:19):
Everything.
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:19):
Can you repeat?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:03:21):
Uh, we left everything behind. As I said, we were allowed one suitcase each. C'est tout. Nothing more.
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:29):
So you had money in the bank?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:03:31):
Money in the bank.
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:33):
Frozen.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:03:34):
Frozen. Uh, our furniture frozen. We couldn't, we couldn't leave it. We couldn't take anything behind.
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:44):
Your stores?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:03:46):
To, oh, forget about that. They, they were chained up. We couldn't even go in. Um, we left everything.
Lisette Shashoua (01:03:55):
And you still don't know why, just because you're Jewish. Actually, the whole plane was Jewish. They gave everybody,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:04:02):
I believe the whole plane was Jewish. Not the whole, maybe most, most of the people were Jewish, but I don't remember any, anything from my old apartment, from, from where we used to live. There's hardly a thing.
Lisette Shashoua (01:04:22):
Were you ever given restitution?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:04:26):
No,
Lisette Shashoua (01:04:27):
Never.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:04:27):
Never.
Lisette Shashoua (01:04:28):
Did you report it to the,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:04:31):
You know what the, it's starting to come out now, but we haven't done anything about it. In fact, when we went back to Egypt in 2008, I went with my cousins because my, uh, the last sibling of my father's, they were all gone. So all the cousins got together and said, let's go, let's go back to Egypt as a pilgrimage. We'll say our goodbyes there. And we, we went, and there was one time where all the cousins were wandering around the city, and all of a sudden we see, uh, a store. We love antiques and, you know, old things. So we went in and my cousin and I, my cousin lives in Israel now. We looked at each other and we went for the books. There were old books there. We took this one and we took this one. And, oh, look at this one.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:05:36):
We had a pile. And my other cousin comes up and he says, we're leaving. He says, one minute we wanna buy these. He says, we're not buying anything. I said, why not? He says, take a look. We opened the books. Each one had the name of a Jewish family. Like, you know, you, you write your name in the book. Yes, of course. Yeah. They were all, they all belonged to us. To all, you know, all the people who left Egypt, left behind everything, and everything was confiscated and being sold. And Yeah. And so things were, they were not, uh, really, you know, we did not want to be part of buying something that had belonged to another Jew who, you know, it was confiscated in the first place. No. So we left everything, and it left a bad taste in our mouth. Of course. You know.
Lisette Shashoua (01:06:40):
So when did you arrive to Canada?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:06:43):
We arrived in June of 1957.
Lisette Shashoua (01:06:46):
So you stayed about.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:06:48):
six months.
Lisette Shashoua (01:06:49):
Six months in France,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:06:50):
six months in France. No, Paris and Vichy. And, uh, we came and right away we were in, uh, JIAS helped us. My, my aunt, my aunt and uncle took us in. And they had an apartment ready for us, like I said.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:07:14):
But what was horrible was that here I was a francophone. And as a francophone, I couldn't go to a French school. I had to go to an English school because the Protestants took in Jews. The Catholic system did not, it was Francophone, but it was Catholic. We were Jews. So we had to go to English school. And I walked in knowing my little song, Baba, Black Sheep, <laugh>. That's all I knew. So they put me, they teamed me up with a, a French student from France. And he helped me out. He, you know, I, he helped me read the books from grade one to grade three. I was in grade four. And, you know, little by little I learned. And, but it, it's difficult as a child, you know, just to give you an example, I became really good. I, I was really good, but I had to read out loud in front of my, uh, peers and, oh, I had to read this word. W-I-N-D-I-N-G, winding.
Lisette Shashoua (01:08:39):
Okay.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:08:40):
But how did I read it? Winding.
Lisette Shashoua (01:08:43):
Yeah. They laughed.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:08:44):
They laughed. Up to today I cringe, you know, when I, because these are things that affect you, uh, that affect a child. And, you know, that's why when I got into the teaching profession every year, I used to, and I taught for 40 years. For most of the time. I used to tell my kids, my students, the story about immigration. How does an immigrant, you know, you talk about a lot of immigrants came from Russia. A lot of immigrants came from wherever. But do you know how that kid felt? And so I would sit them down and I, I said, I'm gonna tell you the true story of an immigrant. And I would tell them my story, and I would tell them my story. And they would sit there like this. I, I was a French teacher teaching Anglophones. And I would tell my story, of course, in French, and they would look at me, and they were completely engrossed.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:09:55):
And every year I would get the new class, and I would get a lot of hands, when are you gonna tell the story of your life? Because the old their, their older siblings would know, would've told them Yeah. About it. And so they were looking forward to it. And when I stopped teaching, I said, what, who am I gonna tell the story to? So I said, you know what, I'm gonna write it. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I started writing, and I've got many, many, many pages written already.
Lisette Shashoua (01:10:32):
Oh, fantastic.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:10:33):
So I'm hoping my grandchildren will know enough French. 'cause I wrote it in French.
Lisette Shashoua (01:10:39):
Well, you're saying it in English now.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:10:41):
True.
New Speaker (01:10:41):
And this interview will go to the family, by the way.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:10:44):
Perfect.
Lisette Shashoua (01:10:45):
Yeah. Yeah. So that's one of the best, uh, outcomes of this interview, really. Okay. So when you got here, uh, you got help from the JIAS, and you came as an immigrant or as a refugee here?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:11:02):
Came as a, we came as we left Egypt as refugees to France. Yes. And then we waited six months for a visa uhhuh sponsored by our aunt and uncle. So we came as immigrants.
Lisette Shashoua (01:11:19):
You came as immigrants. And your first impression of Canada,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:11:26):
Ah, your first big experience. Clean. Yeah. Big and clean and full of freedom. Mm. It was, it, you felt it was a tangible feeling.
Lisette Shashoua (01:11:44):
Yes.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:11:45):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:11:46):
And your family settled in,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:11:50):
In TMR. Oh, and we, yeah. I grew up in TMR and, uh,
Lisette Shashoua (01:11:55):
In a house or in an apartment?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:11:57):
In an apartment. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and, uh,
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:01):
Glengarry. On Glengarry?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:12:02):
No, actually not far on Plymouth. Ah,
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:06):
<laugh>.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:12:07):
We started it in a small quadruplex in on Abercorn.
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:11):
Uhhuh
Maryse Ouaknine (01:12:12):
Behind Jean Talon.. And then we, we moved to our, uh, apartment
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:19):
On Plymouth.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:12:19):
On Plymouth Avenue near the TMR shopping center.
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:23):
My aunt lives there too.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:12:25):
Oh, yeah?
Lisette Shashoua (01:12:25):
Yeah. That's <inaudible>. Oh, <laugh>. Okay. And what did your parents do when they arrived? Did they start working? What did they do?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:12:42):
Right away. They found jobs. Uh, my father worked in a clothing store at a Gold & Sons. Mm-Hmm. He knew about clothing, right. And he, uh, he was very good at it. My mother worked at, um, IAC Oh, first she had little jobs, uh, secretary, um, receptionist. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, things like that. I remember she worked in a chocolate, uh,
Lisette Shashoua (01:13:18):
Laura Secord?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:13:19):
It wasn't a store that sold chocolates. It was a company that made chocolate. And she worked with, uh, as I think as a secretary. Anyway, and then she worked at IAC, industrial Acceptance Corporation as a secretary. And then eventually she bought her own, uh, um, travel agency. She became, she was a travel agent, and then she bought her own place.
Lisette Shashoua (01:13:48):
Wow.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:13:50):
Yeah. And by then she lost her husband. My father died at 47 years old. And she was 30. How old was she? Was? She was, he died at 47. She was still 39. When he died.
Lisette Shashoua (01:14:08):
Uh, I didn't ask you your parents' names.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:14:11):
Maurice Azuli was my father. And Margo Halak was my mother.
Lisette Shashoua (01:14:17):
Yes, you mentioned, right. Yes. So Margo Halak now is living in, Cote Saint-Luc.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:14:25):
Yes. She's living at, uh, a, a residence for elderly people called the Vista. And, uh, she's 90, soon 96, bless her. 95. No, she's 96, soon 97.
Lisette Shashoua (01:14:44):
Bless her.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:14:45):
And, um, she's doing well.
Lisette Shashoua (01:14:49):
She's still knits.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:14:51):
No, she's really stopped. <laugh>
Lisette Shashoua (01:14:54):
<laugh>.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:14:55):
Yeah. But she's made, she's made many, many, many things like baby blankets. And she used to make all our clothes when we were in Egypt. Beautiful. She did needle point, she did carpets. She did ev Oh, she, she was amazing with her hands. She would cook and, and bake. And as a matter of fact, at one point she became a caterer. She would make, uh, like all kinds of little goodies that you could buy by the dozen or Uhhuh Uhhuh, and she would be, uh, <inaudible> and things like Yeah, exactly. And the <inaudible> and all kinds of things.
Lisette Shashoua (01:15:45):
Lovely. They didn't have to retrain here. They were already, they had, they were educated. They were already, yeah.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:15:54):
Yeah. They didn't have to retrain. Like, it's not as if you are a doctor and you come here and you need your equivalency. And No, they, they worked, you know, it was, they were able to work.
Lisette Shashoua (01:16:12):
Okay. Tell me about your education here.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:16:16):
I went, uh, through the Protestant School Board of Greater Montreal. Mm-Hmm. I studied, um, at McGill University. Yeah. And I did my BA and then I went for my masters. But in the middle of my masters, I got married. So I didn't finish my dissertation, but, uh, I studied French language and literature, and eventually I, I became a teacher, a French teacher. So I, I did go to, um, teacher college. I studied education, and, uh, and the rest is history. I taught for 40 years. Amazing. And, uh, I taught, uh, French.
Lisette Shashoua (01:17:11):
So now, once you got here, did you join a synagogue, a Jewish organization?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:17:17):
When we grew up, uh, until I got married, we, we were affiliated with Beth El. And, uh, then my husband is Moroccan, so we went to a Moroccan synagogue called Petah Tikva, and that's where we're affiliated.
Lisette Shashoua (01:17:41):
How did you meet, meet your husband?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:17:43):
Blind date.
Lisette Shashoua (01:17:44):
Oh,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:17:46):
A blind date. He met my father before I met him.
Lisette Shashoua (01:17:51):
Wow.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:17:52):
He met my father because his father wanted real estate. At that point, my father was selling real estate. He looked in the yellow, in the yellow pages. He, he came across a name, Azule, which sounded Moroccan. And so he called him. And, uh, my father had an appointment with him on the same day that I had an appointment with my husband for the first time. Wow. So my father went to his house and they had, uh, a meeting with the, with his father, the two fathers together. And then my husband met my, my husband Henri. And when Henri told him he was actually going to, they figured out that I was the daughter. He went, he said, but you know, I'm supposed to go to your house now. He says, well, I'll drive you <laugh>. So he came and he drove my husband to meet me.
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:02):
So your dad, your dad passed away in
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:07):
1967.
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:08):
And when did you meet Henri?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:11):
1966.
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:12):
Oh, my <laugh>.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:14):
Yep.
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:15):
How old were you?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:16):
I was still 18
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:18):
<laugh>
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:19):
19.
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:20):
Wow. Yes,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:22):
Yes. I was at McGill.
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:23):
So your dad was at your wedding?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:26):
No,
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:27):
No.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:27):
We married in 70. Okay. 1970. And, uh, no, my father had been gone for three years already.
Lisette Shashoua (01:19:37):
Wow. Yeah. What a beautiful story. How did your dad get into real estate so quickly? Bravo.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:19:45):
Well, my father was amazing. He, whatever he did, he did well. He was, um, very intelligent. He spoke five, six languages. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. He was amazing. And, uh, he, after the real estate, um, after the, uh, a Gold & Sons and Company, yes. He went, it wasn't paying very much. So he tried his hand at real estate. And then he tried his hand at, uh, insurance. Mm-Hmm.
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:18):
<affirmative>. Wow. Yeah, at 47.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:25):
Yeah. He, we, yeah, he came here. He was 37.
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:29):
So he was here 10. In those 10 years, he worked as a sales person.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:35):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:36):
In real estate.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:37):
Real estate.
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:38):
Insurance.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:39):
Insurance.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:40):
How did he die?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:41):
He had a heart attack. Oops. Heart attack.
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:49):
I'm sorry.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:49):
Yeah,
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:50):
I'm really sorry.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:51):
Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:52):
And your mom continued.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:20:54):
My mom continued. And, uh, it was,
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:59):
She continued to work.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:21:01):
She continued. Yes. Absolutely. She had two kids to, to bring up, you know
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:06):
So what did she do again at work? You said
Maryse Ouaknine (01:21:10):
She, uh, in the later years, she had a travel agency.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:14):
Yes,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:21:14):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:16):
So they were both brilliant. And, and
Maryse Ouaknine (01:21:19):
They, yeah. Very, very accomplished.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:25):
Wow.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:21:26):
Yes. Okay. I, she has a lot of merit. My mother all alone with two kids to bring up. And it was, you know, it's not easy.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:37):
No. Thank you. So did, did the JIAS help you settle at all or just brought you and then your aunt took over.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:21:46):
Yeah. Here it was my aunt.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:48):
Yeah. Whereas, so they just help you come with a visa?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:21:52):
Yes. Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:52):
They didn't give you any money or anything?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:21:55):
No. No.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:55):
You want, okay. Now, do you preserve your Sephardi heritage? The traditions?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:22:04):
Are you kidding me, <laugh>? Absolutely. Absolutely. First of all, well, pre covid now. Okay. We used to religiously have a Shabbat, religiously <laugh> have Shabbat dinners with our kids. It went, we weren't observant before, but when our kids came, we said, no, from now on, we have to do Shabbat dinner at our house. And we did. And it was fantastic. My kids grew up with it, and they continue to do it. They're, they're a bit bugged because it stopped a little bit because of Covid. But Shabbat dinners is very important. And we, we do Yom Kippur and of course, Rosh Hashanah and, Pesach.
Lisette Shashoua (01:22:59):
At this. You go to the synagogue.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:23:01):
We go to synagogue. We have, uh, a big dinner. And our family has grown and grown and grown. We are 17 to sit down for dinner. We are 17. So we have Shabbat dinner, 17. And before the pandemic, I had a kids' table. But now I had more recently, like recently, I tried to make one dinner with all my kids. There's no more kids. They're all like towering over me. I can't put 'em at a kid's table. So I had to concoct another way. And I made an L with, with my dining room table. So at least now we're all together, <laugh> on one table. But, uh, in terms of, uh, traditions, and this is our big tradition,
Lisette Shashoua (01:23:58):
It must be hard to start again. Cooking for 17.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:24:02):
I can't wait.
Lisette Shashoua (01:24:03):
<laugh>. Oh,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:24:04):
I can't wait. I miss them. I miss them.
Lisette Shashoua (01:24:10):
What is the most important part of your Sephardic background?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:24:18):
The most important part. Well, I am Jewish. Yes. But like my husband, we are attached to our traditional chanting at the synagogue. You know, it's very different when you go to a, to an Ashkenazi synagogue. Yes. Yes. The, the, the tunes are very different. And, um, to me that's a very important part.
Lisette Shashoua (01:24:47):
Mm-Hmm.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:24:47):
And what I love. But I think that goes, it's not just Sephardic, but Jewish. I like our holidays. What it means to me is that the family gets together, you know? And to me that's very important.
Lisette Shashoua (01:25:07):
Of course. How would you describe yourself in terms of your identity? Like Jewish, Canadian, uh, Egyptian, what do you see yourself as?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:25:18):
Well, I see myself as a Jewish Canadian. I don't see myself as a, like, I don't, I, I don't think I, I see myself as a Canadian and absolutely a Jewish Canadian.
Lisette Shashoua (01:25:41):
And do you see yourself, I mean, you consider yourself a refugee or a migrant?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:25:48):
That's a tough question. I was a migrant. I was definitely a refugee. So where do you draw the line? For six months. I was a <laugh>, you know, for six months. I was a refugee. I really was. Of course, you a refugee. When my parents
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:12):
No money, no nothing,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:26:13):
Nothing, nothing. Nothing
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:15):
From coming with, uh, fa you know, big home with help.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:26:21):
Yeah. I'm telling you, I remember a gift that the ref, the, uh, Red Cross gave me. They gave me a tea set for my doll, my famous doll.
Lisette Shashoua (01:26:34):
What's her name? Your doll?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:26:36):
I don't know. She was Japanese. She had, uh, beautiful hair, uh, a bun with all kinds of sticks and a kimono. And, and she was my doll. And she was my most precious possession, which I was allowed to bring with me to, um, to Canada. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Well to, out of Egypt. Put it this way. To France and then to Canada. And, um, I wanted to tell you something else. There was something else I want. Nevermind.
Lisette Shashoua (01:27:17):
They gave you a tea set.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:27:19):
They gave, it wasn't that. They gave me a tea set that was, that I left behind in France. But no, I, I wanted to tell you something else, but it completely slipped my mind.
Lisette Shashoua (01:27:37):
Might come back. Um, where do you consider home?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:27:43):
Montreal. Absolutely.
Lisette Shashoua (01:27:46):
And what identity did you wanna pass on to your children?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:27:53):
What identity? Jewish. I want my kids, but they do, they, they do feel Jewish. And I, I'm very lucky because, uh, you know, all my grandchildren, they, they go to Hebrew school. Some of them, uh, they, they are also, they, they've had bar mitzvahs and Oh, that's something I wanna tell you to share. My mother made for every single male in my family, a beautiful, um, coverTalid embroidered with their name on it. There's my husband, my grandchildren, all my male and my male grandchildren, my sons, my, everybody has, a, Talid cover.
Lisette Shashoua (01:29:01):
What an amazing gift. And, and
Maryse Ouaknine (01:29:03):
Amazing,
Lisette Shashoua (01:29:04):
Eh? Yeah. Beautiful.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:29:07):
Yeah. The problem is my mother now is 96 and there's a new grandson, <laugh>. She, he doesn't have one yet, so she's gonna have to do something about it, but it's hard for her to needle point
Lisette Shashoua (01:29:24):
<laugh>. Wow. And this language, you speak to the children.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:29:32):
I spoke French to them when they were born. And, uh, my, my son, the oldest speaks French to his father, but to me, he speaks in English. And then his siblings came along and they spoke English with him. So they, they speak both languages and I speak both languages to them. Hmm. And even the grandchildren. My grandchildren, I speak French and I tutored them in French.
Lisette Shashoua (01:30:10):
Wonderful. And what impact did the refugee migration experience have on your life?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:30:21):
Um, I'll tell you, it's very important for me to pass on how an immigrant feels. This is in the cadre in the context of when I was teaching, you know, like there's a chapter on immigration, and so you talk about it and you have to impart the fact that, you know, pass on the fact that it's not easy to a newcomer in a new land, in a new school. Somebody is new in this, in this class. Well, how do you feel? How does he feel? Do you know how he feels? And the children become more accustomed and more attuned to the feelings of others. So this, this is important. That's the impact that I wanna have on them and, or that I used to want to have on them. 'cause I've retired. But, you know, how does the next person feel next to you? You know? Think about it. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:31:36):
Beautiful.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:31:36):
Treat people how you want to be treated.
Lisette Shashoua (01:31:40):
Excellent. That's very important. It's a silly question, but it says, do you think your life would've been different if you had not left Egypt?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:31:52):
I've often wondered what, where would I have been at this point in my life in Egypt? Uh, I see myself with a lot more pounds. <laugh> I see myself with, I don't know, with, uh, I'm, I'm very happy that I'm here. I'm very happy to have made this transition, because whether I wanted to or not at the time, this was the right thing to do.
Lisette Shashoua (01:32:24):
Are there many Jews left in Egypt?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:32:27):
When we went back in 2008, there were, there were like a handful in, in the Cairo synagogue. You know, usually the synagogue is packed. It was, it was, uh, the eve of, uh, Hanukah, or no, it was the last night before the end of Hanukah. That's, and we were there normally, there would've been a lot of people. There were a handful of people, and several of us were my family and a couple of other, uh, actually there, there was a couple of other tourists, one of whom knew, like he had come back to Egypt as a visitor, but he had lived in Egypt. And he says to me, you see that? Because we figured out that he knew my father. He knew my uncle. He says, we used to sit right at that seat. And we used to during the whole service. And I mean, it was phenomenal. He lives in Brazil. Wow. And we met up in the synagogue in Egypt.
Lisette Shashoua (01:33:41):
And you were able to get, you said you have to have permission to go there now.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:33:46):
Absolutely.
Lisette Shashoua (01:33:46):
So you needed permission to go on Yom Hanukah.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:33:49):
Absolutely.
Lisette Shashoua (01:33:50):
Were you able to speak to the Jews that were still in Egypt?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:33:54):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:33:55):
You were not, they were not afraid to speak.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:33:57):
They were, we were not. Um, we were more or less alone. There was no, the, the police were outside, but we spoke to them and they, uh, basically, I don't know why they stayed. They just felt more comfortable not not leaving. They did not want to leave. But we're talking about just a handful of people, you know, most of them were, yeah, there were about maybe eight of them. Five eight.
Lisette Shashoua (01:34:35):
So you said you closed the chapter once you got there. What was it that made you feel okay,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:34:42):
That's it. Well, just the fact of going into the synagogue and having the police there to let you in, that was enough. <laugh>.
Lisette Shashoua (01:34:53):
How about, did you visit your apartment? Where you were born? Uh, where you lived with your grandmother?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:35:00):
Yes. I went with my sister. We, we, we were eight between the cousins and, but I went with my sister. We went up to the sixth floor, uh, took a picture of my door, which was a beautiful mahogany. You can't imagine
Lisette Shashoua (01:35:20):
You have a picture of it.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:35:21):
Of it. I have a picture of it somewhere. Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:35:24):
You showed it to me.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:35:25):
And, uh, the idea that we wanted to visit and we're right at the door, and then we hear screaming and a man is yelling at a woman. A baby is crying, you know, it was not the right time. And I could kick myself because when is gonna be the right time? It's finished. That was, I missed the moment.
Lisette Shashoua (01:35:52):
But that was the moment. Hearing, screaming and hearing. It's not the same energy anymore in that apartment.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:35:59):
No no no. That's it.
Lisette Shashoua (01:36:00):
That's all you needed.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:36:02):
That's it. I saw the door. And as a matter of fact, my sister Claudie had blanked out all the details of our past, and she remembered nothing. She got to the door, and all of a sudden she burst into tears. She remembered the door. And then it brought back memories of that, you know, the knocking in the middle of the night and, and everything else, you know? So that woke her up.
Lisette Shashoua (01:36:36):
Wow. Wow. Yeah. Okay. So what else did you visit? Were you able to visit the store that belonged to your mother?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:36:43):
Oh, it wasn't it. Yeah. I saw the store in the place,
Lisette Shashoua (01:36:48):
But it wasn't, and the place that was burnt,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:36:51):
Yes. But we had rebuilt it. But it was, no, they were, they didn't sell the same things as us.
Lisette Shashoua (01:36:59):
Obviously. But it was still a store.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:37:00):
It was still a store. Uh, we, we saw that one. We saw, we saw places like we used to go to <inaudible>. This was a, an incredible salon de the, a tea house that was outstanding. And there it was so sumptuous. Oh, they sold the most beautiful, they coup des cremes glacees. Like ice cream sundaes and, and <French> fantastic. Okay. It white gloves on the servers and the Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:37:46):
Chef's hat.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:37:47):
The, not, you know, the fez, the red hat. And beautiful. Beautiful. And everything was sparkling. The tablecloths were completely linen, like beautiful linen starched. We went to visit, it was like an old cafeteria with wobbly chairs and, and metal, uh, metal chairs, you know, nothing special. And what did they sell? There were two or three, uh, cookies in the, in a behind glass door. There. Nothing to do with what we left. It was too bad. Oh, another expression. Haram Haram. That means, it's a shame. It's a shame. You know, it. And <inaudible> It's written, it was written in, you know, it's destiny. Mm-Hmm.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:38:46):
Anyway, it was, yeah. I'm remembering, you know, the souvenirs, they're all here, the memories. And sometimes they're painful.
Lisette Shashoua (01:39:01):
Of course. It's amazing that you remember so much from age eight.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:39:06):
I know. I, an interesting fact, I said I was writing my, uh, memoirs. I'm writing and writing and writing. My intention was to tell the story until, you know, immigration and how I felt as an immigrant and where I lived and you know, but I'm still stuck in Egypt. I'm barely, this is years later. I'm writng, I'm at the airport, I think.
Lisette Shashoua (01:39:39):
So you are leaving?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:39:40):
I'm leaving, but it's taken me this long. 'cause I'm remembering the smell of this and the look of that and the flowers here. The smell of the ja for example, Jasmine on my aunt's balcony, where we used to spend three months of the year in the summer, she had a balcony that was, that went like all around the apartment practically. And lots of jasmine plants lined up. And you get on the balcony and you smell the jasmine. It's like amazing. Or you go on my balcony in Cairo. And I told you there was a, a place that sold Turkish coffee downstairs. Ah, you smell the Turkish coffee.
Lisette Shashoua (01:40:30):
Did you, when you went back to the apartment, uh, building, did you see that coffee shop? Was it still there?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:40:38):
There it was still there, but it was not
Lisette Shashoua (01:40:40):
The same coffee.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:40:41):
No.
Lisette Shashoua (01:40:44):
Yeah.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:40:45):
Well, everything's changed.
Lisette Shashoua (01:40:46):
To the worst,
Maryse Ouaknine (01:40:47):
You know. Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:40:49):
Sad.
Maryse Ouaknine (01:40:51):
Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (01:40:53):
What message would you like to give to anyone who might listen to this interview?
Maryse Ouaknine (01:40:58):
Well, I, I would say you've just listened to the interview of a 73-year-old woman who came from Egypt, who lived for eight years in a beautiful setting and had a wonderful life. And yet is very happy to be living in Canada, A country that took us in with open arms. And thank you Canada.
Lisette Shashoua (01:41:27):
Thank you very much. Thank you for lovely <inaudible>. Beautiful.