Proofread by: Rebecca Lash
Transcribed by: Temi
Interview date: 10/17/2018
Interviewer: Henry Green
Location: Montreal, Canada
Total time: 57:36
Linda Ishayek: Born in Baghdad, Iraq, 1951. Arrived in Toronto in 1972.
Henry Green (00:15):
Can you tell me something about your family's background?
Linda Ishayek (00:18):
Okay. We were born in Iraq. Most of our, uh, uncles and aunts were already left in 51 after the farhud. So really all I knew is one uncle from my mother's side and maybe a cousin or two from my father's side. I met a few of them when I left Baghdad, Iraq. Um, but I didn't meet all of them, my uncles and my cousins. Uh, my father had few siblings and my mother had about four siblings. And, um, we grew up in, uh, Baghdad, Iraq with a community of, uh, maybe 5,000, 6,000, uh, people. And, um, our community was together. We're always together. We didn't mingle with, uh, our family, my myself didn't mingle with any, uh, non Jewish people. And, uh, we had our own school, uh, Frank Iny. We had the elementary there and then we did the high school in Shamash. And after that, uh, myself, I went to the university. It was after the 67 war. And, uh, I have my brother Richard too. He went to university there and then we immigrated to Canada.
Henry Green (01:53):
Okay. So let's, let's go back then and give some texture to this. So your father's father, your father's grandparents? Yes. Okay. What was your grandfather's name?
Linda Ishayek (02:09):
Shaoul, which is Sol in,
Henry Green (02:12):
What was his, uh, his surname was the same surname? The grandfather, his last name. [LI: Obadiah] Yeah. Okay. So, and he was married to. [LI: Farha (ph)] and her maiden name was, or do you know?
Linda Ishayek (02:36):
No. Somekh [ph] I think Somekh I'm not sure.
Henry Green (02:39):
Okay. Now, uh, and what did he do as a living your grandfather? [LI: I have no idea] Did you know, did you meet your grandparents? Had they left or they've passed away? They passed
Linda Ishayek (02:50):
By the time I was born, they passed away my father, I think one of the youngest siblings.
Henry Green (02:57):
And, um, that side of the family, that side of the family. Did they always, in terms of family folklore, were they always from Baghdad or Iraqi?
Linda Ishayek (03:09):
Yes. They were always in Baghdad, Iraqis, as far as I know, that's where they lived.
Henry Green (03:16):
Okay. Your mother's parents, what was your,
Linda Ishayek (03:20):
I only met my mother's my grandmother from my mother's side. And, um, but she was very old at the time when we met, she was a very nice warm person.
Henry Green (03:34):
And what was her name? Okay. And her husband's name? Do you know? No idea. Okay. What about their lineage? Are they Iraqi, Iraq, [LI: Iraq, Iraqi] Baghdad too. Okay. This is what I do see though [overlap, laughter]. Yeah. Um, okay. Now your parents, do you, um, your father's name is [LI: Abdullah Obadiah (ph)] and your mother? [LI: Rachel Mousafi (ph)]. Okay. Do you know the story of how they met? [LI: I think it was an arranged marriage]. Arranged marriage. Okay. And, um, do you, um, do you know when they were married?
Linda Ishayek (04:23):
They were married in 41, 1941
Henry Green (04:28):
41. And your father mother, same age, difference in age?
Linda Ishayek (04:36):
No. Uh, he was maybe, uh, she was 21, 19 [inaudble] 13 years older than her
Henry Green (04:44):
13 years older. And your father, what did, what did he do?
Linda Ishayek (04:49):
He was, a principal of a school and he taught, I was a professor at, uh, Baghdad University taught mathematics and, um, you know, he was actually, he graduated, he had good marks. He was very, uh, a good student and good, And he had a very good mark. So they sent him on a scholarship to Beirut, to, to learn, to mathematics, to be a professor of mathematics. He came back and he started, uh, working with the university as a professor of mathematics.
Henry Green (05:28):
And this was, um, afterwards world war II or before world war II or?
Linda Ishayek (05:36):
Well, I guess when he was 18, 19 years old, he was sent to Beirut to study.
Henry Green (05:43):
So I'm just trying. So your father was born around when, [LI: 1908] 1908, so, okay. So by 38 he's 30 years old already? Yes. So he would have been, so when he went Beirut it, would have been maybe in the twenties? Yes. So, so it already was a French colony when he went? Yes. Okay. So did your father speak French?
Linda Ishayek (06:11):
No. He was, he spoke English very well, but not French.
Henry Green (06:16):
Can you explain this to me?
Linda Ishayek (06:17):
I have no idea. [Laughter, overlap] I don't know, I guess. Yeah, but he was in Iraq and Iraq was already an English colony, so, and so that's what he, I guess he, I knew it was an American University of Beirut American University of Beirut? Yes. Okay. [HG: Did you ever visit Beirut?] Yes, we went for a month. Um, we stayed, uh, you know, we had a period where they allowed us to go out in a [inaudible] when 59, and we went for a month, stayed in Lebanon.
Henry Green (06:59):
And do you, how do you go by plane or [LI: by plane] and do you remember going to the beach and, uh,
Linda Ishayek (07:05):
It wasn't a beach. I remember being in a hotel and then we do, we did some sightseeing on the sight, seeing on the side when to few mountains. I remember it was twirling [laughter].
Henry Green (07:19):
Well, in the Jewish community of Beirut often would in the summer go up to the- Did you do this?
Linda Ishayek (07:27):
That's where we went. One of the places were not Beirut. We were, I didn't go to Beirut, went to one of those places where, yeah.
Henry Green (07:37):
Do you have any memories from that?
Linda Ishayek (07:40):
Very little.
Henry Green (07:44):
Okay, so, so your father's teaching. Okay. So, uh, that means your father was, was, um, in, in Baghdad during the time that the Nazis and the, uh, farhud. Do, did your father ever talk to you about this?
Linda Ishayek (08:01):
All I know is they, uh, they were meaning to leave, uh, Iraq and [inaudible], you know, the farhud as many did, but my mother was pregnant with me and they decided not to [laughs].
Henry Green (08:14):
Blame it on you [laughs].
Linda Ishayek (08:14):
Blame it on me [laughs]
Henry Green (08:22):
Okay. Um, the, the, um, What year were you born again? [LI: 51] 51. The farhud's 41. So it's a bit of years in between the, so I'm just trying to, so you're, you're, he's a professor at a university of Baghdad. He's teaching math and, and the climate is changing in terms of, um, uh, the Jewish community and, and, um, especially during period of 48 to 51. And, and he, and your mother decide to stay. Yes. You do. You, do you know any stories about why they did this one way or the other?
Linda Ishayek (09:07):
As, as far as I know this is the case, as I said, that why they stayed during, you mean between 41 and 48? [HG: Yea], I guess, I don't know. He was, I guess he had a good position and he was, uh, and, uh, when everybody left or they approached him to be the principal of the school, because there was many university, many school there that, uh, when people started to leave, they had few students and they were putting, you know, amalgamated all the schools together and they asked him to be the principal of the school of Frank Iny.
Henry Green (09:47):
So Frank Iny w um, you know, a lot about Frank Iny you went to Frank Iny. Um, it only began during this period really, uh, uh, the mass exodus, and, um, he had not taught at a school before that he taught at university, but he wasn't teaching at a
Linda Ishayek (10:06):
No. He, I think maybe he taught in, uh, in high schools too, uh, because he wrote some, he co wrote some books, geometry books, math books, and they were being taught at school for many, many years
Henry Green (10:30):
In Arabic, these schools and the texts, these books would be used at university or at high school, [LI: high school] high school level. Okay. So let's say your, your, your father is a, um, a teacher and your, um, your mother, she stays at home. And what area of Baghdad did you live in?
Linda Ishayek (10:53):
Uh, we were at the Bettawin [ph] first, then we went to the Mesbah.
Henry Green (10:58):
Wow. Okay. And, um, when did you move from one to the other? How old were you
Linda Ishayek (11:05):
In 63? We moved to the Masbah I was born in the Bettawin area in 63 and moved to the Mesbah
Henry Green (11:13):
Okay. So in the area that you were born, um, there were many Jews who lived in this area and, uh, the synagogue that you were affiliated with, where you were affiliated with any synagogue?
Linda Ishayek (11:26):
Not in particular, there were about two or three synagogues and around.
Henry Green (11:33):
And did, did, um, a, um, did you have help in the house? [LI: No] No help. And was it a house or not?
Linda Ishayek (11:42):
It was a, it was a house.
Henry Green (11:44):
And did you have a yard?
Linda Ishayek (11:47):
Um, a small yard. We had a small yard outside? Yes.
Henry Green (11:50):
And in the, in the, in the hot summers, did you go up in the roof or did you,
Linda Ishayek (11:55):
Yes. We slept on the roof. Uh, yes. I remember that. Uh, [HG: do you have memories of it?] Oh yeah. We used to sleep in a hot in the nighttime. We used to sleep on the roof and when the sun came up. Uh, we used to go down.
Henry Green (12:16):
And did your parents sleep on the roof?
Linda Ishayek (12:18):
Yes. Yes. We all slept on the roof.
Henry Green (12:20):
And your, the house that you lived in. Um, did you have your own room?
Linda Ishayek (12:25):
No, I, uh, I was, uh, sharing it with my brother.
Henry Green (12:32):
And, and do you remember anything about your room
Linda Ishayek (12:36):
Plain two, two not really, two two beds and, uh,
Henry Green (12:42):
Well, okay. Do you remember having dolls?.
Linda Ishayek (12:46):
No, we did not have any dogs, no.
Henry Green (12:49):
no dolls,
Linda Ishayek (12:50):
dolls, [overlap], oh, I heard dogs.
Henry Green (12:54):
Do you remember like, you know, like, I think of my daughter, you know, she had different dolls and got affectionate over this doll or that you had. Do you remember any,
Linda Ishayek (13:04):
Not in particular, No.
Henry Green (13:06):
No one with a special name or something? [LI: No, no] Books? Do you remember particular books you read as a kid?
Linda Ishayek (13:13):
No, I wasn't fond of reading. That's my problem [laughter]
Henry Green (13:21):
Okay. What about, okay, so, um, what would the a, okay, so is your growing up a typical day, would be you go to school? How would you get to school? Would you walk with
Linda Ishayek (13:31):
No, we, yeah, there was just buses, but, uh, they used to come around and pick us up and, um,
Linda Ishayek (13:40):
That's how we used to go to school.
Henry Green (13:42):
And you went to Frank Iny?
Linda Ishayek (13:43):
I went, I went to Frank Iny and that's elementary, and the high school was Shamash.
Henry Green (13:53):
And when you went to that school, did your brother go with you? [LI: Yes, yes] And what was it like with your father being the principal?
Linda Ishayek (14:08):
Um [sighs], I was a bit privileged. Umm, In a way, I, I don't know. I mean, he didn't give us any extra things, but, uh, I felt privileged. Um, I don't, just a regular student.
Henry Green (14:31):
Okay. But, okay, so you felt privileged. Does that mean that, that you could, um, get away with certain things that other students couldn't get away with?
Linda Ishayek (14:44):
I was a good student. I was a, I wasn't, I mean, I grew up as a, no, I didn't take advantage of it, it just that, uh, when I used to pass by the, by the classes to see everything is okay and the kids used to be scared, but as far as me, I was, you know, I wasn't scared. That's in a way. That's why I said I was privileged. You know?
Henry Green (15:08):
So people talk about [name of teacher], you know, she was like the head teacher and people talk about her having a certain fear. Did you have this fear?
Linda Ishayek (15:21):
No, this is why I'm saying those fears [HG laughs]. I didn't have them because, you know, I was, uh, as I said, I felt, I felt comfortable.
Henry Green (15:34):
Did, did, um, were you involved in any activities, uh, at Frank Iny, I mean, sports programs or other kinds of things?
Linda Ishayek (15:42):
We used to have a playground, uh, in, uh, on, not in the same school. And I used to play a bit of tennis or, uh, table tennis and regular tennis, but that's it.
Henry Green (15:56):
Do you remember of any of the clubs that were in, uh, Iraq, your parents? Were they member of any of the clubs?
Linda Ishayek (16:02):
Uh, yeah, we were at for a few years, we were a- club Mansour [ph]. They used to call it, it's a club
Henry Green (16:09):
And you would go when you would play with other kids there or,
Linda Ishayek (16:13):
Um, you know, I mean, there was some Jewish Iraqi kids that were there and we used to play together. We didn't, um, ourself, we didn't mix with other kids. Uh,
Henry Green (16:24):
And your parents would make their friends there or they'd go out every week or,
Linda Ishayek (16:33):
Um, yeah, every week we used to go once a week. Yeah.
Henry Green (16:39):
So, so, um, let me ask you a few more questions then about, um, just sort of daily life. So did your father, um, um, in the, in the house, what language did you speak in the house? [LI: Arabic] And did you have help that would come in the house at all in any way? [LI: No] Okay. So, so you spoke Arabic and at school you would learn Arabic and you would learn also some English, French? [LI: English and French]. And you would do tests in English and French and Arabic. [LI: Yes]. So you were doing sort of the, uh, the, uh, uh, it would lead towards a O levels and A levels the baccleaurat. And did you also learn Hebrew?
Linda Ishayek (17:28):
Hebrew taught very little because the government kind of didn't allow them to teach to give so many lessons in Hebrew. So it was very limited. The Hebrew that we learned
Henry Green (17:45):
And your teachers were Jewish teachers?
Linda Ishayek (17:47):
No, there were Christians, Muslims Jewish.
Henry Green (17:51):
And your, the students in the class were also Christians and Muslims too?
Linda Ishayek (17:56):
No, mainly Jewish. There may be one from 30 kids, maybe one Muslims at, uh, that that would be there, but not are Christian.
Henry Green (18:12):
So your, your home life then, would your, um, when Shabbat came, let's say, what would Shabbat be like at your house?
Linda Ishayek (18:22):
Um, well, we would celebrate it regularly. Just like any other day.
Henry Green (18:28):
Does that mean that you would, you, would you say Kiddush, or would you say Hamotzi, like a prayer before [LI: we didn't] We didn't do that. Did you, uh, what about Passover?
Linda Ishayek (18:39):
Passover? We used to go to my uncle and we did Passover. We used to read the whole, uh, para the whole thing of, uh, and we used to do it, the blessings and all that of my uncle's house.
Henry Green (18:55):
Did you, uh, where there were other people over also, or just small family?
Linda Ishayek (19:01):
Um, in our case it was a small family. Uh, yeah.
Henry Green (19:06):
Did you keep, do you eat bread during a Passover or did you keep to Just Kosher? [LI: No, we kept it Kosher yeah] was your house? Kosher? [LI: No, our house wasn't]. And, and in terms of activities that were you involved or your parents involved in any kind of Jewish organizations at all? No. Okay. So, so let me just take you, so you're born in 51. So the King gets assassinated in 58? [LI: Yes] Okay. So do you remember this? [LI: Yes, I do]. Okay. So, [laughter] tell me about it
Linda Ishayek (19:43):
Well, we know it was, um, pretty, uh, we were really scared because, uh, we didn't know. I mean, we didn't have a very, we didn't have too much freedom before, uh, when the King was there, but you didn't know what to expect when he was killed, but when Abdel Karim Qasim came, we had a good life. The Jewish people for four years had a good life. They, uh, were able to travel. There weren't too many, um, like, uh, persecutions or so those four years were kind of a breather for us. And then things started to go down again after Abdel Karim Qasim was killed. Uh, what I remember from my childhood that my father used to do, take us on a lot of journeys to go to other places like Basra or, uh, you know, to see a lot of journeys on the side [HG: did you go to Tikrit?] I don't remember Tikrit
Henry Green (20:50):
What about Kurdish area? Did you go up to Erbil?
Linda Ishayek (20:53):
We, we, we went once yeah. Up North.
Henry Green (20:58):
Your father had a car.
Linda Ishayek (20:59):
Yes. When we used to travel, we used to sometimes we, two families would go together.
Henry Green (21:07):
And when you went to Basra, did you have family or relatives in Basra?
Linda Ishayek (21:11):
No. No. We just went to visit [HG: just to site see?] site seeing, yes
Henry Green (21:16):
Not to see like some Jewish family or friends or something. You were there. Did your parents have, um, friends that come over to the house at all with friends [LI: sometimes, yes], Jewish, [LI: Jewish, only Jewish] Jewish. Did you as a child go visit homes or, uh, Jewish homes. You went into this, but what about Muslim or [LI: no]. So it was basically Jewish homes, and, and, um, um, once, um, the Baath party came to power, um, you had television, you had radio. [LI: yes] Did you, do you ever remember listening to things that would have Israel on radio or
Linda Ishayek (22:02):
No, but I think, um, you know, not really when we couldn't, uh, I don't remember. We were listening. I mean, the television is only has one station and it was the Iraqi station. And, uh, the, uh, the radio was maybe they would listen to a BBC or something, but that's about it.
Henry Green (22:28):
So Israel played very little role. [LI: yes, very little, no] And BBC, you, you knew English well enough to be able to
Linda Ishayek (22:38):
I'm I'm just saying that I don't remember. Even if, um, I don't remember really very well.
Henry Green (22:44):
Did you and Richard speak only Arabic together? [LI: Yes]. You didn't do it, not speaking [LI: no English, no]. Or what about your, your father spoke English?
Linda Ishayek (22:54):
My father spoke English because he went and pro-. He went to get some teachers from outside when he was a principal. Like he went to England to get a teacher from England, uh, to teach English. Then he went to France. He got a French teacher to teach French and a really, so he spoke English Yes.
Henry Green (23:20):
But he didn't speak English to you?
Linda Ishayek (23:21):
No. At home. No.
Henry Green (23:25):
At home no. So it was, it was very much a sort of Arabic speaking milieu [LI: yes, yes], you went to your school and you had English and French, but, but it was contained [LI yes]and otherwise it was a Jewish environment. [LI: Yes] And with very, um, a little exposure to, did you feel a, that you were afraid? Was there a fear that-
Linda Ishayek (23:50):
There is fear whenever you go out of the house and you walk around or this? Uh, I mean, uh, there is a fear in the heart it's, you know, well, I mean, it wasn't,
Linda Ishayek (24:05):
You, you didn't feel like here, you're free to go wherever to speak wherever, whenever you spoke to somebody like you go to the market and you buy, you try to speak their language more than because the dialect the Jewish dialect was different than the dialect that they spoke. So you try to speak their dialect more than not to show that you are by speaking your dialect, that you are Jewish. Yes.
Henry Green (24:30):
So did it, so it sort of was like in the home, you spoke to Judeao Arabic, but outside you spoke the Iraqi. So did you go to the souk to go shopping with your mom or dad at all?
Linda Ishayek (24:43):
Sometimes. Sometimes I went with my dad. Sometimes they send me in the morning to get some milk or something from, you know, grocery store near us, or yes.
Henry Green (24:55):
Did your, did your father ever go into the cafes and have a cafe? Play shesh besh or something or?
Linda Ishayek (24:58):
Yes. They used to, they used to socialize with our Iraqis. They used to go to a cafe and sit down and, you know, yeah. They used to
Henry Green (25:12):
And was in, when he did that, it was with, with, with, with Muslims?
Linda Ishayek (25:16):
No, just Iraqis, a Jewish Iraqis
Henry Green (25:21):
Did you ever see your dad play shesh besh or anything?
Linda Ishayek (25:24):
Yeah. He taught us how to play, shesh besh.
Henry Green (25:26):
Was he any good?
Linda Ishayek (25:27):
Oh yeah. [laughs]
Henry Green (25:29):
Could you beat him?
Linda Ishayek (25:30):
No, I don't know [laughs]. [HG: Can you be Richard] maybe? [laughs, HG: can you still play?] Yes. Yes.
Henry Green (25:42):
Um, did your mother play cards? [LI: No] Didn't play cards. Did you play at all?
Linda Ishayek (25:49):
No. No, I play, but not before, [HG: but not before] uh we used to have at Purim, We used to go socialize too and we've used to play cards, but not, uh, not on a regular basis. There were some Iraqi families they used to get together and play, but not, not in our home
Henry Green (26:13):
Now Richard was born before you, right? Yes. So let's see, 49, 13, maybe like 61 or something? [59, 62 60 or whatever]
Linda Ishayek (26:26):
He was born in 49.
Henry Green (26:28):
So he had a Bar Mitzvah in 62. Do you remember?
Linda Ishayek (26:31):
He did. He did have a Bar Mitzvah somebody else. They did it together with my, my cousin. They did it together.
Henry Green (26:42):
And your cousin's name is.
Linda Ishayek (26:44):
David.
Henry Green (26:44):
David Obadiah?
Linda Ishayek (26:46):
No. David Moussafi.
Henry Green (26:50):
And where was this? Where did it take place? At home or-
Linda Ishayek (26:54):
At home, at home
Henry Green (26:56):
And we're friends invited over. And, uh,
Linda Ishayek (27:01):
Um, I, I, if I remember it was just a small gathering
Henry Green (27:06):
And, and, um,
Henry Green (27:07):
Richard had an Aliyah or, you [LI: No] you put on tefillin
Linda Ishayek (27:11):
Yeah, I, yeah. Yeah. I think he put on tefillim I'm not sure. I don't even remember it very well.
Henry Green (27:19):
I'm trying to [overlap, laughter]
Henry Green (27:25):
Um, those are in the good years though between 58 and 62 so maybe there's a greater chance. Okay. The, the, um, [laughter, overlap]
Henry Green (27:38):
So there really was no, I mean, yeah, there was a Jewish club. And when did you stop going to the Jewish club?
Linda Ishayek (27:45):
It wasn't aJewish club. It was a regular club for everybod, Jews and non-Jews, yes.
Henry Green (27:51):
And what did you, when did you stop going there? Did you continue going until you left Iraq?
Linda Ishayek (27:58):
No. After the 67 war, they didn't allow anybody to go to those clubs anymore. So this, yeah
Henry Green (28:06):
So it ended after that point. And, and, uh, do you remember the 67 war at all? And did you try to, uh, listen to things on the radio?
Linda Ishayek (28:18):
Yes, we were had the, but, uh, the only, the only broadcast was the Iraqi broadcasting and they were saying they were joyful and they have victory and all that. And no, you know, until afterwards, because they could, they didn't allow any other stations to be broadcasted. So we didn't know what's happening. And we were very scared during the sixties, the seven 67 war. But afterwards we, we know, we heard, we understood it wasn't the case, but, uh, all those days they were saying, Oh, we are we are winning, were beating them. We are
Henry Green (29:02):
Did, did, um, did you experience, uh, as anti-Semitism anywhere, did people call you a Jew on the street or do you have experiences?
Linda Ishayek (29:14):
Uh, not, not myself, no
Henry Green (29:17):
Friends?
Linda Ishayek (29:19):
Most probably yeah
Henry Green (29:21):
But you never talked to them?
Linda Ishayek (29:22):
Well at the university, they, uh, you know, after the 67 more, when we were at Hikma university, um, there were some, they start to instigate people and they yes they, they, uh, uh, they started to kind of, uh, you know say words and all that.
Henry Green (29:43):
So you, you went to Frank Iny and you graduated Frank Iny when, in 60 with your 67 67. And then you went to Shamash or?
Linda Ishayek (29:52):
Oh, no, Frank Iny is the elementary school, sorry I, uh, graduated from high school in 67, 67. So I take away five years at [inaudible]
Henry Green (30:02):
60, 70 graduation. And the, you graduated before the six day war, I guess, or just around then?
Linda Ishayek (30:09):
Yeah, we were having our baccalaureate examined during the 67 war actually won one of the last exams. We were there sitting down and writing, and then the riots big came all over. And I remember like we were in a, all girls school writing the exam, and all of a sudden there were men came in. I was in the school and it started tearing all our papers and they had to, had to cancel. And my dad came and he rounded all the goals from our school, from the Jewish girls and took us home. And, uh, they had to, we had to rewrite that exam because, um, that day they tore all the exam papers and all that, whoever came in [HG: when that happened were you afraid?] sure were very scared. You know, all of a sudden you see a bunch of, um, I don't know about, uh, 30, 40 men coming into the school and you're really scared.
Henry Green (31:12):
And the, the, um, uh, during this period of af I mean, the, Baath party had come in, Saddam Hussein already had come in a few years before that did that affect-
Linda Ishayek (31:25):
No, that wasn't
Henry Green (31:27):
65 [inaudible] the party came in. [LI: yes] So did that affect the school at all? In terms of
Linda Ishayek (31:35):
It didn't affect the school, it just affected. We were more scared. You know, we knew like we couldn't travel anymore as my, and you knew you weren't, as you didn't feel as free as those four years that, uh, they used to come and pick up some men from the house, knock on the door and pick up some men and they will disappear. So you're scared, you were very scared.
Henry Green (32:04):
Did they ever come to your house?
Linda Ishayek (32:06):
No.
Linda Ishayek (32:07):
But friends that you knew this and did you, was it were any friends of yours ever taken?
Linda Ishayek (32:14):
Their fathers? Yes.
Henry Green (32:18):
So 67, you write the exam, this horrible thing happens. You go to university. And
Linda Ishayek (32:26):
Actually I wait for one year, we were out of the, they didn't accept any Jewish people in the university. If we was our class, we sat down for one year. My father did his best and he started giving us, uh, our year, uh, some, uh, mathematics, uh, courses at school and after that year, he was able to get me into the university myself.
Henry Green (32:59):
And was Richard at the university at the university?
Linda Ishayek (33:02):
Richard was already at the university yes.
Henry Green (33:03):
So, so he was there before the six day war?
Linda Ishayek (33:06):
Yes.
Henry Green (33:07):
And, um, and was he also in some way, uh, did he go through some kind of discrimination also? Did he try to warn you about this or that, or,
Linda Ishayek (33:20):
No. We all knew that we have to be very careful with what they say or what we do, and try not to say any political thing or get into any political arguments with them, because, uh, you knew that if you do, you know, it will, it won't be a good results.
Henry Green (33:43):
There were very few Jews who went to the university at this time,
Linda Ishayek (33:49):
Quite a few of ours. They went to university. I like, Richard. Most of his class went to university, but after the 67 war, it, they didn't accept anybody.
Henry Green (34:03):
Right. So you, you were sort of the exception because your, what your father, was your father still teaching at the university? [LI: Yes]
Henry Green (34:12):
And what did you major in
Linda Ishayek (34:15):
Civil engineering
Henry Green (34:17):
And, um, from different stories, uh, there, uh, what I've, what I've heard is that, uh, depending on the politics of whatever was going on in Israel, there could be crises that happened at various points. And, um, you could be, [like just coming] from class or whatever it was, and something was happening that became a challenging, [if I could put it] do you have any experiences like that?
Linda Ishayek (34:50):
Well, one time I remember, like I was wearing something and somebody mentioned, Oh, there's the symbol on your dress? Is the symbol on the Israeli money? I said, and so, you know, I got scared because they try to instigate you to to say, so then my answer was, how do you know, do you deal with it? And so he, he didn't pursue it anymore. Uh, so, you know, they they try to get you to talk about it and then, you know, the result wasn't, uh, so you're scared you try not to say anything or try to be careful what you say,
Henry Green (35:38):
Right? I mean, I'm just thinking in terms of geopolitics. So, you know, with the TV and the radio and the newspapers, and it has, I mean, you go to school, you have no idea, whatever it's going to break. So it's, and then situations arise and, and, and then they, they know you're Jewish. So they respond in a way that, uh, uh, is to, um, instigate something, you know?
Linda Ishayek (36:05):
Well, I didn't, nothing happened when I was there.
Henry Green (36:10):
And so did you graduate from the university?
Linda Ishayek (36:13):
I graduated from university of Baghdad yes.
Henry Green (36:16):
What year was that?
Linda Ishayek (36:18):
1972,
Henry Green (36:19):
1972. And Richard graduated a few years earlier then. [LI: ah yes]. So why, when you graduated, when you were, you're now studying you're in Baghdad, you don't think there's going to be much future for you? [LI: Yes] So what are you thinking? What are you saying to yourself? I want to leave. I want to,
Linda Ishayek (36:40):
Well, I knew that my father was pursuing that we were going to be leaving. He sent my brother two years before me, as soon as he finished university, uh, here, he sent you know, came to Canada. And I knew that after I finished my university, I'm going to come to Canada too, to, to do my masters.
Henry Green (37:04):
And so what is your story of leaving then? How did you leave?
Linda Ishayek (37:10):
I, my father had as, because he was a professor at university, most of the pupils that he taught became ministers. I mean, some of them, I'm not saying them all, some of them became minister,s so, and they respected him a lot. And he was able to secure a passport for myself and for my brother. And we left with a passport. Many of the Jewish people escaped through Northern Iraq, but we were one of the first privileged people that got the passport and we traveled with a passport abroad.
Henry Green (37:51):
So he and Richard left in 70. And you left in 72 and you had Iraqi passports? [LI: Yes] So why did your father and mother stay then?
Linda Ishayek (38:02):
I guess, uh, financially he was secure. He was getting, uh, kind of, uh, money from the university because, um, pension and he was financially secure there and he didn't know what to expect. He want us to be able to stand on, to stand on our two feet until he would leave Baghdad.
Henry Green (38:30):
Did you ever talk to your parents about leaving? I mean, you're now 20 years old.
Linda Ishayek (38:34):
Yes. Yes.
Henry Green (38:36):
Did you not ever say dad, I'm leaving. Come with me. Uh,
Linda Ishayek (38:42):
I I guess it was understood eventually they will leave. Um, because then none of the kids are anymore there. So eventually with, we knew that they will be leaving, but it was assumptions. Yes [laughs].
Henry Green (39:02):
So let me understand this there. By 1970, 71, there were hardly any Jews left because whoever could, we're going up to the Kurdish area and across to Iran, like Lisette and Edwin Shuker and all these people. Right. And so you have to be one of the very few families that are still there [LI: yes, yes] your brother has left you. [LI: Yes] you're alone. [LI: Yes] Tell me what this is like
Linda Ishayek (39:36):
I went to school, went to university, came back. Well, I had a friend, actually, when I was at the university, we, I had a Christian friend that we used to study together and that's it. We used to come study, go back the second day to university and come back home. That's it.
Henry Green (39:56):
What do you do with the rest of your time?
Linda Ishayek (39:58):
Nothing, just stay home and study [laughs] all that, that, I went maybe to a movie with some of the, you know, one or two friend or my cousin went to a movie during the weekend, but that's about it. We didn't do
Henry Green (40:14):
Did you date boys at all?
Linda Ishayek (40:17):
No, we're not. It was very strict. We to date boys. It wasn't, eh, we were, no, weren't, supposed to, we're not allowed to, to date boys at that time.
Henry Green (40:31):
And so, so you go to school, you're hanging with your friend, you study and you don't like reading books. [overlap, laughter].
Linda Ishayek (40:48):
Yeah, this is it, it wasn't such a happy life [laughs]
Henry Green (40:48):
I'm just trying to get a sense, you know, there's only so much you can do with your math. Yeah. books and you know uh, uh, or lack of books. So it's just, uh, did you become, um, um, were you interested in cooking in the kitchen.
Linda Ishayek (41:04):
Not really [laughs].
Henry Green (41:06):
sewing? [laughs] Just trying to think of your past time of what you, you know, what you do.
Linda Ishayek (41:13):
We're really very, that's all what we did was we came home. We studied, we went back to school the second day. Um, didn't have much of a leisure time. No.
Henry Green (41:26):
And what did your mother do during this period
Linda Ishayek (41:29):
Well she was taking care of the house and she would watch TV really. That's what she did.
Henry Green (41:35):
And your dad was still teaching at the university. Okay. So you get a passport to go and you leave. When do you leave? What's the date?
Linda Ishayek (41:47):
It's I think it was the 6th of August, 1972.
Henry Green (41:51):
So, so tell me about the last few days in Baghdad or the day before you left. What was that like? Did you,
Linda Ishayek (42:01):
Well, um, I was very apprehensive because I was living on my own, uh, I never left. We were always with, with my dad or my mom going somewhere. I mean, especially on a plane going abroad, I was very apprehensive, uh, was thinking what's coming ahead and leaving, you know, my, the cousin or the familiar places, or the familiar faces that I know. And this is how I felt.
Henry Green (42:38):
Did you have a conversation like the night before with your mother and father about what the future would hold for you in any way?
Linda Ishayek (42:48):
I don't remember, no.
Henry Green (42:50):
Did you, so you, you go to bed that night and you leave the next day, they take you to the airport?
Linda Ishayek (42:57):
Yes.
Henry Green (42:57):
You have one suitcase?
Linda Ishayek (42:59):
One suitcase. Yes.
Henry Green (43:01):
And do you remember what you packed?
Linda Ishayek (43:03):
Just a few clothes. That's it.
Henry Green (43:06):
Any personal mementos?
Linda Ishayek (43:08):
No. No, actually I didn't take any pictures or anything with me, just clothes.
Henry Green (43:15):
Did you think about coming back?
Linda Ishayek (43:15):
No, I knew that I'm not going back, but um you know, I was coming to London and, uh, I was, uh, meeting some family there, that uh, I haven't seen for quite a while and I stayed in London for 10 days. Um, the family kind of took care of me. We went sightseeing for a few days, and then I came to Canada where my brother was already here. He was in Montreal. He was, uh, he was in Toronto. Uh, we have cousins here in Montreal that I stayed a few days with. And then I went to Toronto.
Henry Green (43:55):
And so you arrived roughly August, September in 72. And what did you do then?
Linda Ishayek (44:04):
I registered at the university and started the courses.
Henry Green (44:09):
University of-
Linda Ishayek (44:11):
Toronto.
Henry Green (44:12):
And what did you study?
Linda Ishayek (44:13):
Civil engineering.
Henry Green (44:14):
Like a masters?
Linda Ishayek (44:15):
Yes. Yes.
Henry Green (44:17):
So was your English good enough? Do you think
Linda Ishayek (44:21):
It wasn't good enough, uh, actually when I went to London, I started, after a few days, you kind of listen to their dialect and you know, and by the time I came here, it changed on me [laughs] it took me a while to get used to the English here. Yeah. [HG: Like Judeo-Arabic there, right? Yeah, exactly the same. Right.]
Henry Green (44:49):
And where did you live in Toronto?
Linda Ishayek (44:52):
I lived in Toronto. In downtown Toronto.
Henry Green (44:56):
And you lived with your brother?
Linda Ishayek (44:57):
Yes. I lived with my brother during the years that I was studying.
Henry Green (45:02):
And how did you support yourself?
Linda Ishayek (45:04):
Uh, I was assistant teaching at the university
Henry Green (45:09):
And, and, um, you get your degree and then what happens
Linda Ishayek (45:13):
And then I applied for a job in Montreal because there was more Jewish community in Montreal, I applied for a job in Montreal and I got accepted in Montreal as well. So I started working in Montreal. I moved to Montreal.
Henry Green (45:29):
Okay. I'm trying to understand something here. You speak English.
Linda Ishayek (45:31):
Yes.
Henry Green (45:32):
You didn't speak French or did you speak French?
Linda Ishayek (45:34):
No, I knew French. We studied French.
Henry Green (45:36):
So your French was as good as your English?
Linda Ishayek (45:38):
No, my English was better [laughs] It took me, you know [laughs, HG: I'm just trying to understand] Yes, yes. But at the time then when we came to Montreal,
Linda Ishayek (45:47):
There were a lot of English speaking people, not as much as now that you have to speak in French most of the time.
Henry Green (45:57):
And what kind of job did you get?
Linda Ishayek (45:58):
I got a civil engineer. I worked for two years. Then I met my husband.
Henry Green (46:06):
Who is your husband?
Linda Ishayek (46:07):
Jamil Ishayek And, um, and then we started a family and, uh, you know, I had to take care of the family because he was working long hours.
Henry Green (46:23):
What did he do?
Linda Ishayek (46:24):
He had a business, uh, auto parts
Henry Green (46:29):
And children. How many children do you have?
Linda Ishayek (46:31):
We have three, I have three children, two girls and a boy.
Henry Green (46:37):
Um, when were they born and their names?
Linda Ishayek (46:39):
Jennifer was born in 1979. David was born in 1981 and my Amanda is born in 1986.
Henry Green (46:49):
Your kids are like my kids basically [laughs] and where are they now your children?
Linda Ishayek (46:55):
Two of the eldest two are in Los Angeles. And my youngest here. It's in Montreal.
Henry Green (47:01):
And are any of them married, are you a grandparent?
Linda Ishayek (47:01):
Two. And Erin is in married too. Yes. The two in LA, Los Angeles are married and I have six granddaughters. One has four grand, my daughter has four girls and my boy has two girls.
Henry Green (47:16):
So in, when you came here, you say Jewish communities, does that also mean that, that you were wanting to connect more to an Iraqi community, when you say come to Montreal or you mean Jewish in a general sense
Linda Ishayek (47:29):
No, Jewish Iraqi community
Henry Green (47:30):
Jewish Iraqi community. You knew Iraqi Jews here? Yes. And, uh, did you become a member of a synagogue?
Linda Ishayek (47:39):
Yes.
Henry Green (47:39):
Which one?
Linda Ishayek (47:40):
Spanish and Portuguese.
Linda Ishayek (47:41):
And, and what kind of Jewish life did you make in Montreal for yourself?
Linda Ishayek (47:47):
Well, I mean, uh, we used to go to the synagogue during the holidays and, uh, we used to meet, uh, the Iraqi Jewish community we've made friends.
Henry Green (48:01):
Did, um, um, did you speak Arabic to your husband at home?
Linda Ishayek (48:09):
Um, I spoke English most of the time by this time because he spoke Hebrew he's mainly he was five years old when he moved from Iraq and he went to Israel and he did his army there. And his main, uh, language is really Hebrew. So we spoke English at home. He's Arabic as well isn't as good as uh,
Henry Green (48:36):
And Hebrew was not a language you learned.
Linda Ishayek (48:40):
No, not a language I learned.
Henry Green (48:40):
So at home the children learned English then, and then went to what schools?
Linda Ishayek (48:46):
They went to Solomon Schechter, they went to Jewish schools.
Henry Green (48:49):
Solomon Schechter all the way through or?
Linda Ishayek (48:49):
Solomon Schechter and then Herzeliyah.
Henry Green (48:55):
So that means that they learned how to doven, how to the liturgy I mean because Herzeliyah was, but they learned more in Ashkenazi education, Jewish education than Sephardi. [LI: yes]. So how did they keep any, how did you pass onto them Sephardi?
Linda Ishayek (49:14):
Well, Pesach and at Rosh Hashanah. We used to do the way the Iraqi do it, the Iraqi or Jewish Iraqi, do it more on this and the songs. And I we used, we'd go to the Spanish and Portuguese where we have an Iraqi, synagogue, I mean, an Iraqi, a room where all the Iraqis will meet and, uh, they do the prayers there.
Henry Green (49:42):
So the minyan would have a kind of Iraqi Babylonian kind of thing. Yeah. Did, did, um, did you do Shabbat at home?
Linda Ishayek (49:52):
Uh, sometimes we did Shabbat at home.
Henry Green (49:56):
So it wasn't like a kosher home or it was more, um, the way Canadians do it [LI: yes]. What about your relationship between Ashkenazi and Sephardi in the community? It was mostly with Iraqi and Babylonian?
Linda Ishayek (50:10):
Well, I was mostly with Iraqis. Yes. We were mostly with Iraqis
Henry Green (50:14):
What about Montreal? When I think of the Montreal Jewish community, I say to myself, well, it's the biggest is the North African, the Moroccans. Did you have any connection to the Moroccan Jewish community?
Linda Ishayek (50:26):
No. No.
Linda Ishayek (50:27):
What about the, they established the, uh, uh, communaute sepharade, you know, the Jewish, uh, the Jewish Sefardi association. Did you, were you involved in that kind of way?
Linda Ishayek (50:40):
No. No.
Henry Green (50:41):
So, so the life was very much sort of, um, an Iraqi Jewish, uh, social, um, with, with, um, um, with you being a housewife and take care of family and kids. And, and were you, what about Israel? Where did, did Israel play any role in this?
Linda Ishayek (51:01):
Well, um, after we got married, we went to visit Israel with my husband to see his family there. He had a, quite a big family in Israel and, um, then we went quite a few times afterwards with the kids too.
Henry Green (51:22):
Do your kids speak Hebrew [LI: they speak Hebrew] and, and, um, so did you, um, were there any kind of Israeli organizations that you became involved in or Zionist organizations? [LI: No] but he had his family in Israel and he would connect his parents were in Israel or,
Linda Ishayek (51:45):
Uh, no, they moved here. I mean, to Canada. Yes. Yes. And he has a few cousins that [HG: brothers, sisters?], He had a brother that was living here and then he moved to California too. And he has a sister that's living in Israel.
Henry Green (52:06):
So one sister still lives in Israel. And, and, um, is when you, when you think in terms of, uh, well, 76 or whatever, you came here, 72, 74, [you would have been here since what] 74 76. So you, so the, the it's the Iraqi Jewish community that's been strong and, and Israel is, is, there's a connection, but it's, um, it's not a, um, through, through organizations, it's, it's, it's more familial [LI: yes]. So let me ask you a, just some final questions. How do you preserve your Sephardi heritage? Your Babylonian heritage
Linda Ishayek (52:57):
Just by going to the synagogue and doing the Pesach, and Rosh Hashanah, all that, um, that's.
Henry Green (53:12):
And, how would you, uh, how do you see yourself in terms of your identity? How you, someone asked you what's your identity? What would you say
Linda Ishayek (53:22):
I'm Jewish? They asked me where you were born, I'll say Iraq, and this is what, when they asked me that.
Speaker 4 (53:34):
And where does Canada play a role in this?
Linda Ishayek (53:38):
Well, I kinda, I lived most of my life in Canada and I love Canada, and uh, but when they come and ask me, what's my origin, I would say I'm Iraqi.
Henry Green (53:56):
Um, do you consider yourself a refugee and immigrant? How do you see yourself?
Linda Ishayek (54:02):
Mostly an immigrant, an immigrant.
Henry Green (54:06):
Did you, in the past, like in the seventies, would you see yourself differently than today?
Linda Ishayek (54:10):
In what way?
Henry Green (54:15):
Well, you, you left, um, and the way you described it was I'm not coming home [laughs].
Linda Ishayek (54:22):
Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yes.
Henry Green (54:29):
[laughs] So I wonder if you see, saw it differently in 75.
Linda Ishayek (54:32):
No, I'm an immigrant. I'm an immigrant to Canada and I'm staying in Canada by now. I'm Canadian, but, uh,
Henry Green (54:42):
What kind of identity do your children have? How do they see themselves?
Linda Ishayek (54:47):
I think they see themselves as Canadian. I think they, they, they still are within the Sephardic community, even in LA. They, they like my daughter married an Iraqi, my son married a Persian person. So they're within the Sephardic community when they visit, when they mingle, when they have, I'm not, they still have, they have, uh, Ashkenazi friends and all that. But this is, I think, especially my, uh, my, my, uh, daughter's husband has four siblings. So, you know, uh, but I think she, that the kids, their kids are mingling with other Jewish people. They, but I think they will keep their Jewish heritage. I don't know if they will keep their Sephardic Jewish heritage, then they'll give their Jewish heritage.
Henry Green (55:57):
So let me ask you one last question. Um, the idea of course, is that these, these interviews will, uh, be put on the National Library of Israel will be streamed, and hopefully we'll do this also canvas or the Canadian archives. So what message do you want to give to anyone who's listened to this? What message would you like to share with them?
Linda Ishayek (56:21):
I think it's a pity that, uh, our heritage is, uh, we're losing it because, you know, the kids are mingling are getting together with, uh, we going further and further from the Sephardic and the Babylonian Jews were there for quite a few years, centuries. They were in Iraq and it's a pity we were the last ones that, uh, left. And, uh, I just would be great if they keep it, but the, our children will keep some of it... of this heritage.
Henry Green (57:06):
Thank you so much for participating in this project
Linda Ishayek (57:08):
Thank you. Thank you for interviewing me. I hope it will be helpful.