Cleaned by: Rebecca Lash

Transcribed by: Temi

Interview Date: 5/8/2017

Interviewer: Lisa Newman

Location: Toronto, Canada

Total time: 11:11

Isaac Gaon: Born in London 1949. Father immigrated to London from Travnik, Bosnia in 1932. 

Isaac Gaon (00:16):

My name is Isaac Gaon. Um, I was actually born in London in 1949. Uh, my parents, uh, were, [haham] Dr. Solomon Gaon. Uh, he became the chief of the Sephardic chief rabbi of the Commonwealth and, um, and he, uh, operated in London basically. And then from London, he went to New York. My mother Regina Gaon, was born in Gibraltar and she came over to London during the war. And, uh, they, my father who was from Bosnia originally from a little place called Travnik, uh, came over with the Sephardi community as a trainee, uh, rabbi. And they met in London and they got married and had me and I have a, I have a sister called Raquel Gaon.

Lisa Newman (01:10):

And when was your father born?

Isaac Gaon (01:15):

He was born in 1914, uh, in Travnik. Um, he, uh, went to a Jesuit school to start with, uh, he learned or understood, uh, some 20, sorry, 15 languages. Uh, and, uh, one of those languages was Latin. He was able to actually speak in Latin. Uh, so that was an amazing, uh, education. Um, and, uh, he was, uh, he was actually treated very well by the Jesuits in spite of the fact that they have a reputation for being very strict and they were strict, but she said they weren't the strictest people with him anyway. Uh, so, uh, he then went from, uh, his, that education, uh, to a Yeshiva in, um, uh, just outside Travnik where he was born, uh, near Sarajevo and there, he got his, uh, preliminary [semiha] and he, uh, was educated not only by, uh, rabbis, uh, from the, from Sarajevo, but also from his grandfather who was also a rabbi.

Lisa Newman (02:28):

Tell me about your grandparents

Isaac Gaon (02:32):

Yeah. So my grandfather, my father's side, uh, was Isaac Gaon, Yitzhak Gaon, and my grandmother was Rachela Pinto, two very Sephardic names. Um, and they came probably from, um, Greece, uh, obviously after the expulsion from Spain, uh, the family traveled to Greece and Salonica and then from Salonica they went to the Balkans. Uh, my grandmother, my grandmother's family, uh, were landowners. Um, and my grandfather was a Shoemaker, uh, and, um, she, uh, had only one son, which was my father and, uh, his name, his nickname was Bookie, uh, from [bekar], the first born, uh, and in 19, just 1931, 1932, they decided that it was time that my father should leave Yugoslavia. Cause they were very concerned about the, the Nazi uprising and, uh, they decided that his education should continue, but in London. So, um, they, at the same time, as they were thinking about this, the Sephardic community in London were actually looking for new recruits to become Sephardic rabbis in London.

Isaac Gaon (04:03):

And, uh, somebody came out to, uh, Travnik, uh, and interviewed my father together with some other, uh, friends of his and, uh, he and his friend, uh, who became a [Reverend] in the Spanish and Portuguese synagogue in London, a guy called, uh, [Reverend Abu Noun], uh, [Eliezer Abu Noun] uh, came to, they both came to London. And, um, that was the last time that my father actually ever saw his parents. Um, his, uh, in 1941, uh, the Nazis, uh, entered, uh, Yugoslavia as it was then. And, uh, we don't know what happened to my grandfather. They just took him away and we have, we don't know anything about where he passed away, but my grandmother was also taken away, but she got typhoid and died on the way to a camp. And, uh, the Germans then asked somebody to come and take the corpse away. And this person was actually looking after a Christian cemetery near traveling. And so we know where my grandmother was buried. And in fact, we, we go and visit that grave quite often.

Camera Operator (05:28):

Can we, sorry, can we hold one second? [background noise] Oh, and then what was it? How did that stop the shirt. Oh, okay. Yeah. So you're, you're just [sticulating] a bit, so, which is fine, which is fine, but it's just that I want to make sure the sound sounds good. Okay. We're good. Yep. Continue.

Lisa Newman (06:09):

We will see a little later on a postcard that your grandmother wrote to your father's landlady. And you'll tell us about that, and we also will see some photographs of your grandmother and of her grave. There's a story you told me about your father going back to see that.

Isaac Gaon (06:34):

Right. So, um, after the war, uh, my father was invited by the remaining Jewish community in Bosnia to come. Uh, he refused to go for many, many years, but eventually he decided once they knew for sure that this was the grave of my grandmother, he obviously decided to go. And, um, on that occasion, uh, he went to his old his to his old house in Travnik uh, which was now in habited, uh, by a, um, uh, by, by, by the same people that were there when he left the house. I mean, some of the people were still actually living. And this lady was, um, looking outside the window as he was coming up the hill, the, the house was on the top of a Hill and she saw him and she started to scream. And she said to him, I never said anything to them.

Isaac Gaon (07:36):

I never told them anything. I promise you. I swear anyways. So my father goes up, comforts her and tries to calm her down and just asks her, did my parents leave anything to you? Did they give you anything to give to me originally? She said, no, at first she said, no, I didn't get anything from anybody. Um, they were just taken away and, and that was it. So he asked once again, he said, look, I'm not going to do anything. I just want to know it would be very comforting for me cause I have nothing from my parents at all. Um, I left not knowing what was going to happen so surely they must've given you something. And then suddenly she remembered that he got that she had received this beautiful silver Sidur, uh, and, uh, that I have today in my possession. And we will see, and we will see that a little later on.

Lisa Newman (08:37):

So in London, you're full, there was living with the landlady.

Isaac Gaon (08:43):

Yes. As a student, he was living as, as, uh, in, in, in, uh, in digs, if you like. Um, and, uh, the, my grandmother wrote to him this letter that you mentioned, um, and it was in Ladino. And, uh, the first part of the letter is really to her as a landlady, thanking her to look after looking after her son and hoping that her son is behaving himself. And the kind of things that my mother would say about their children. And then the, uh, the last few sentences are to my father, uh, saying that she missed him a great deal and that hopefully, uh, God-willing they would see each other as soon. And that she was hoping to come to London at some point over the next two or three years, obviously that did not happen. This let- this note was probably written in 1939. Uh, so just before the Nazis came

Lisa Newman (09:43):

You mentioned Ladino, can you tell about the role of Ladino your family and your community.

Isaac Gaon (09:50):

Right. So, so the first thing I remember about Ladino was my father singing Ladino songs in the shower. That's essentially he would sing, he would go through a repertoire of two or three songs. Um, he had a reasonably good voice. Uh, and I remember hearing this before he went to synagogue every morning, he would get up, he would sing these songs and then, you know, and that would energize him and he would then go on to synagogue. And obviously he would repeat the same songs over and over again. And I live, I, my room was next to the bathroom. So I would often be woken up by, by these, by these songs.

Lisa Newman (10:30):

Can you remember a song? Can you sing one?

Isaac Gaon (10:32):

I can remember, I can remember several of these songs. Absolutely. And then-

Lisa Newman (10:38):

Could you sing one?

Lisa Newman (10:38):

I would be happy to sing one, yes indeed. Um,

Lisa Newman (10:41):

Do you need the guitar?

Speaker 2 (10:44):

Um, Sure, um so do you want to cut- do you want to cut it? [overlap] Yeah.