Transcribed by: Mariel Langer
Interview date: September 20, 2022
Interviewer: Lisette Shashoua
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Total time: 1:40:16
Interviewer: [00:00:17] Thank you for joining us, Gladys. Thank you for giving us this interview with Sephardi Voices. And I'd like to know your full name and what it was when you were born. Where were you born and what year?
Gladys Moallem: [00:00:37] My name is Gladys Perez Moallem. I was born in Baghdad, Iraq, September 18, 1932.
Interviewer: [00:00:50] Please start by telling us about what you remember of your grandparents. What vivid memories you have of anecdotes from your grandparents in Baghdad, the place you lived in, the home.
Gladys Moallem: [00:01:07] I didn't see my grandparents, both of my grandparents. I didn't. My grandfathers. I didn't see my grandfathers. But I had my grandmothers, my two grandmothers. My parental grandmother lived with us. She has her own room, and I was very close to her. And my maternal grandmother. She had her own family and lived. But at the end, at a certain time, she lived with us also. When we left Baghdad, my maternal grandmother was living with us.
Gladys Moallem: [00:01:56] She came with you.
Gladys Moallem: [00:01:57] No, she had to stay. She had her daughter also living with us. And she had a son who was in prison politically. She had to, they both had to stay for him until he was released from the prison. And they came, the three of them, together.
Interviewer: [00:02:25] And why did they put him in prison?
Gladys Moallem: [00:02:27] He was accused of being a communist.
Interviewer: [00:02:31] He was accused. He wasn't.
Gladys Moallem: [00:02:33] Maybe he was. I don't know. But it was illegal. It was illegal to be communist. And.
Interviewer: [00:02:47] Okay. Tell me about any vivid memories you have of your childhood. The school, the house, the friends, where you played.
Gladys Moallem: [00:03:03] We lived where a lot of Iraqi Jews lived, which is called Bedouin. That was I was born there. In fact, that was a beautiful house that my mother's parents gave, gave it to her present. And I grew up there. I was. They used to call me like spoiled girl. I had everything when I was three years old. Two and a half years old. I had my own car. I was very eager to go to school when I was little. I was four years old. There was a school, Madame Adel, close to us, and I ran away. I went to that school and they were looking for me. I don't know how they found me there. So they put me in a nursery in the synagogue. I was only four and then I started. That's why I could save one year from school. When I went to Alliance, I was very early. So. I loved this school Alliance. I loved it very much and I enjoyed that was my life there. My sisters also were in Alliance and it was good education.
Interviewer: [00:04:56] So I want you to tell me what you remember from your house. And also what did you do on Shabbat? What did you do on holidays?
Gladys Moallem: [00:05:06] Oh, our house, at that time, it was a standard with open. There was no there was no ceiling. It was all around and.
Interviewer: [00:05:22] Spanish style.
Gladys Moallem: [00:05:24] Yeah, we had the ground floor. Then the upper floor. Then we had the roof and we had the basement. In the first floor, we had the kitchen and dining room. And then open den and the room which was a den. And the second floor, we had five bedrooms. And on top we had open ceiling, open roof where we slept at night in summer, and we counted the stars.
Interviewer: [00:06:09] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:06:09] And we had the basement where we lay down in summer when it was too hot. We used to relax over there. So. So we had three sets of bedrooms of of beds. I guess every everyone had like that three sets of beds in the basement in the second floor and in the roof.
Interviewer: [00:06:36] Okay. Tell me what you remember of Shabbat of or the holidays. Rosh Hashanah. Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:06:47] We always celebrated Shabbat.
Interviewer: [00:06:52] And your dad went to synagogue?
Gladys Moallem: [00:06:55] My dad went to synagogue. Always? Yes. And on Shabbat in the morning, Only in the morning, he went to the synagogue. And when he came back, we made Kiddush. We ate breakfast. And then sometimes he had to go to work.
Interviewer: [00:07:13] On a Saturday.
Gladys Moallem: [00:07:14] Yes, It didn't. It didn't deprive him to go to work. He didn't say, I'm religious. I don't go to work. He went to the synagogue and he went to work when he needed to work.
Interviewer: [00:07:26] So you had breakfast after he came back, What did you have beat eggs and
Gladys Moallem: [00:07:32] Eggs
Interviewer: [00:07:33] amam (ph)?
Gladys Moallem: [00:07:33] Yeah. Yeah, eggs are beat. Yes. Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:07:37] Okay. And the big the big Shabbat was lunch or Friday night or.
Gladys Moallem: [00:07:44] That was a little bit around 2:00.
Interviewer: [00:07:47] That was also Shabbat.
Gladys Moallem: [00:07:48] Yeah. Yeah, the breakfast was around 10:00 maybe.
Interviewer: [00:07:54] Okay. And any
Interviewer: [00:07:57] And on Friday night, we always had kabbalat Shabbat and we always stood and read and sang Eshtaol all of us. My father recited the kiddush and Hamotzi with the bread, which was like a pita bread special for Baghdad and. We said Shabbat shalom. We kissed each other and we sang Eshtaol. And we didn't know the meaning. Only when we went to Israel and we learned the meaning of the Hebrew things, we knew how important that was. It was the. The man praising the woman for all her work during the whole week. So we appreciated it more.
Interviewer: [00:08:56] Okay. Tell me about your parents. How did they meet? How did they get married?
Interviewer: [00:09:02] How did they get married? Yeah. Through matchmaker.
Interviewer: [00:09:06] Oh. And they. They were in love?
Gladys Moallem: [00:09:10] They were very much in love. Very much.
Interviewer: [00:09:15] Beautiful.
Gladys Moallem: [00:09:16] Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:09:17] And your dad's name was.
Gladys Moallem: [00:09:19] Shaoul
Interviewer: [00:09:20] Your mom's.
Gladys Moallem: [00:09:22] Hatun.
Interviewer: [00:09:22] And they were both born in. In Baghdad. In Baghdad. And your dad, what was his profession?
Gladys Moallem: [00:09:31] Custom broker. He had his own company.
Interviewer: [00:09:36] So when letters came, or parcels came, he was the one through the post. How did what how did he do? A custom broker.
Gladys Moallem: [00:09:50] When merchant? That means when merchandise arrived?
Interviewer: [00:09:54] Yes.
Gladys Moallem: [00:09:54] They. The merchant invited him to to deliver it from the customs.
Interviewer: [00:10:03] Okay. So he clears the customs.
Gladys Moallem: [00:10:05] To clear it from the customs? Yeah. He had license and he had an office in the customs. So he goes there. Sometimes he had to go to the other side of the river. He had a partner with him and he had a porter. His name was Ali.
Interviewer: [00:10:34] And the partner was Muslim?
Gladys Moallem: [00:10:36] No, No. Jewish Iraqi. Yeah, my father was two thirds and the partner was one third.
Interviewer: [00:10:44] You remember his Name?
Gladys Moallem: [00:10:46] Laurie
Interviewer: [00:10:48] What? Laurie what?
Gladys Moallem: [00:10:48] I don't know. The last name. Because I was little when they already separated. And my father was by himself.
Interviewer: [00:10:57] Oh, okay. So tell me about your mom. Her name, where she was born. Her maiden name.
Gladys Moallem: [00:11:05] My mother. My mother's name was Hatun. And her last name? She. She was the daughter of Manechi Sluf. Who was very well known. And it seems he was first of all, he was a merchant in the market. Everybody knew him because he imported goods. He imported material. I don't know. With his brother was a partner with him and he imported and. And he was also a member in the Jewish Iraqi, I used to say it in Arabic. They used to hear they said, although we will just money. I don't know what it is. It's like like a parliament of the Iraqi Jews.
Interviewer: [00:12:12] Oh,
Gladys Moallem: [00:12:12] Yeah. Called it Jhasmani as I was little that I heard this word. But that's what I understood. Like they had the Jews also had their own like parliament, and they called it Jhasmani, it looks like. And he was one of the members.
Interviewer: [00:12:36] How old was your mom when she got married and what did she do in Baghdad?
Gladys Moallem: [00:12:41] My mother was 17 when she got married. Or 18? Close to 18. My father was 30, 31 like that. And he adored her. He loved her so much.
Interviewer: [00:13:00] And she didn't work in Baghdad?
Gladys Moallem: [00:13:01] No, no, she had we had a sleep in maid. I guess every family was like that. Sleep in maid. And every week, the one who washed the clothes comes at comes at night and sleep in our place and wake up at 4:00 and start to wash the clothes by hand before morning. She already hung them. And in the morning her daughter was married already. She used to iron our clothes that some of the clothes were already dry. Wow. Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:13:52] Was she Muslim or Jewish?
Gladys Moallem: [00:13:53] Jews. Jews. Jews. All of them Jews.
Interviewer: [00:13:56] And you're sleep in Maid was also Jewish.
Gladys Moallem: [00:13:59] Everyone Jewish. We didn't see any Muslim.
Interviewer: [00:14:04] Yeah. So tell me about your brothers and sisters. You have. You are four altogether.
Gladys Moallem: [00:14:12] Four. Yeah. Four younger sisters. I used to help them in their studies to all the four. It's like they didn't teach each other because they would fight. So. So they used to bring me their friends. And I teach them all together. Also, when we were in Israel, in Israel, they needed help, especially in English. So. So each one come to me with her friends and I was happy to teach them.
Interviewer: [00:14:52] So you had no non-Jewish friends in Baghdad?
Gladys Moallem: [00:14:55] No.
Interviewer: [00:14:56] And what language did you speak at home?
Gladys Moallem: [00:14:59] Arabic. Jewish Arabic.
Interviewer: [00:15:02] Do you have any favorite expressions that you remember? Any favorite expressions?
Gladys Moallem: [00:15:10] Any Arabic expressions?
Interviewer: [00:15:12] Yeah. If you remember anything, if you don't, it's fine.
Gladys Moallem: [00:15:17] I don't know.
Interviewer: [00:15:19] So mainly. Okay, let's go back to the school you went to was.
Gladys Moallem: [00:15:24] Alliance.
Interviewer: [00:15:24] Alliance Francaise. And then.
Gladys Moallem: [00:15:27] I Didn't go to the. I went right away to the kindergarten because. When I because I was in the synagogue nursery.
Interviewer: [00:15:38] Okay.
Gladys Moallem: [00:15:39] So I saved one year like that. That's why I usually one year younger than the others.
Interviewer: [00:15:47] Wow.
Gladys Moallem: [00:15:48] Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:15:49] And did you belong to any clubs, social clubs at all, Zora or something like?
Gladys Moallem: [00:15:54] No, they were clubs, but we never belonged. We used to be invited sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. But we were not members.
Interviewer: [00:16:10] Okay. Do you remember anything else about the food that your mom prepared or your grandmother?
Gladys Moallem: [00:16:19] Well, we used to have a treat, of course, every Saturday, but then when we were older, we told our mother, We have enough of that bit. We want something else. So what she did, she used to prepare. In Baghdad, there were fish, very famous, beautiful fish. She used to prepare it in a tray and put all the spices over it with tomato and onion and all kinds of things.
Interviewer: [00:16:55] Curry.
Gladys Moallem: [00:16:56] And curry, of course. And she and we had um fourneau how do you say it in English?
Interviewer: [00:17:06] What did you say?
Gladys Moallem: [00:17:07] Fourneau, it came to me in French.
Interviewer: [00:17:11] Oven an oven.
Gladys Moallem: [00:17:12] Yeah. Oven like bakery. Bakery. As I say, close to us that they used to do bread.
Interviewer: [00:17:21] Oh, yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:17:22] So the maid used to carry the tray. It was very close to our house and take it to them with the fish. And they bake it because it was too big to put it in our own. We had only little oven at home we didn't have big ones. So they used to bake it for us. And she brings it back and we loved it as a substitute of the sweet.
Interviewer: [00:17:54] Do you remember going to the synagogue yourself?
Gladys Moallem: [00:17:57] Which synagogue we went?
Interviewer: [00:17:59] Did you go yourself? Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:01] I used to go in the high holidays with my father.
Interviewer: [00:18:06] Do you remember which one?
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:09] I think it.
Interviewer: [00:18:10] Meir Taweig
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:10] Was it was Meir Taweig. And it was near us slightly.
Interviewer: [00:18:18] The big one?
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:19] No, that was in Baghdad. In the city. No, there was Misodeshuntob (sp). This is where I. Where they send me to when I was little.
Interviewer: [00:18:29] Oh.
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:29] Yeah. Sodenshuntob (sp). Now I remember.
Interviewer: [00:18:32] Wow.
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:33] And there was a guy who used to take all the children, and we walk with him and he takes us.
Interviewer: [00:18:42] What does where do you walk with him? To? Where?
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:46] To Misodeshuntob (sp).
Interviewer: [00:18:47] Hah
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:48] We were little.
Interviewer: [00:18:53] Um, what did your parents wear? Like a European clothing?
Gladys Moallem: [00:18:57] Yes.
Interviewer: [00:18:58] And the grandparents? Your grandparents?
Gladys Moallem: [00:19:00] My. My grandmother. When she went to the synagogue, especially in the high holidays, she wore all her outfits. Izaiah (sp) and Relea (sp) and fez.
Interviewer: [00:19:16] So the Izaiah (sp) was made from either silver thread or gold thread on silk.
Gladys Moallem: [00:19:24] With silk? Yes. And it has gold thread. Yes.
Gladys Moallem: [00:19:27] And this was made in the attelier?
Gladys Moallem: [00:19:30] I don't know. When I when when I saw her she had where it was made I don't know. And she had gold. Here she has something.
Interviewer: [00:19:43] Do you have pictures of your grandmother?
Gladys Moallem: [00:19:45] No. She she didn't let us take picture of her. And anyway, we couldn't bring any picture from Baghdad. They didn't let us take pictures. So she had here something gold. Beautiful. Here's the fez. And here's something I think Velvet. And she put that gold thing like this on it.
Interviewer: [00:20:13] Beautiful.
Gladys Moallem: [00:20:14] It's very nice. You know who remember her? Evelyn Shaheen.
Interviewer: [00:20:17] Wow.
Gladys Moallem: [00:20:18] She said, I remember your mother. Your grandmother when she went every Saturday to the synagogue.
Interviewer: [00:20:27] Do you remember any bar mitzvahs or anything in Baghdad?
Gladys Moallem: [00:20:32] Bar mitzvahs? As far as I remember, they used to do it only during the day when they put the tefillin on the children and they made a big luncheon. I think it was luncheon. I remember all kinds of fish and all kinds of very big meal. That's all I remember. I don't remember. They used to make parties.
Interviewer: [00:20:59] No
Gladys Moallem: [00:21:00] Not at night. Yeah, Yeah, but. But always fish. Why? I don't know. I remember fried pieces of fish. That's what I remember. I was little, but I remember that.
Interviewer: [00:21:14] And tell me, were there any Jewish organizations like Zionist organizations that you know of that you your family belonged to?
Gladys Moallem: [00:21:26] No.
Interviewer: [00:21:30] Um, did they Was Zionism discussed in Baghdad, at home, in the family? Well, what Zionism was it discussed in the family?
Gladys Moallem: [00:21:44] Zionism.
Interviewer: [00:21:45] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:21:47] We didn't mention that that word.
Interviewer: [00:21:51] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:21:53] Didn't exist.
Interviewer: [00:21:55] Okay. Describe if you had any relationship with non-Jews your business wise, with your dad.
Gladys Moallem: [00:22:02] Not not me.
Interviewer: [00:22:05] But your dad and business.
Gladys Moallem: [00:22:06] My dad worked with them.
Interviewer: [00:22:08] Yeah
Gladys Moallem: [00:22:09] But nothing socially.
Interviewer: [00:22:11] Yeah. Like as a custom broker, non-Jews would come to him as well?
Gladys Moallem: [00:22:16] Nobody ever came to our house. We never went to any house.
Interviewer: [00:22:20] Yes, but he worked with non-Jews clearing customs for them.
Gladys Moallem: [00:22:27] Oh, if he cleared the. This, I don't know. Must be. He was open to everybody. As far as I remember merchandise used to come from Israel, which is called Palestine at that time.
Interviewer: [00:22:46] Yes.
Gladys Moallem: [00:22:46] And from Syria.
Interviewer: [00:22:52] Okay. Now I want to hear about the 1941 the Farhud. It's very important to tell us everything you remember.
Gladys Moallem: [00:23:03] Yes. Okay. It was. It started in the evening.
Interviewer: [00:23:12] A little loud. Louder.
Gladys Moallem: [00:23:14] Okay. It started in the evening. We had. I was standing on the bed on the roof. And there is separation between us and the neighbor.
Gladys Moallem: [00:23:29] Just the wall.
Gladys Moallem: [00:23:30] Just the wall. But we can see and we can talk.
Interviewer: [00:23:34] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:23:35] So I was talking with my friend. She was also standing on the bed and we were talking.
Interviewer: [00:23:43] She's also Jewish.
Gladys Moallem: [00:23:44] Yes. I was nine years old. Not even because I was born at the end of the year eight and something. We were talking and then we saw a bullet flying over our head. We didn't know what it is. We were scared, so we went down. That was evening before we went to sleep.
Interviewer: [00:24:16] What day. What day was that? June?
Gladys Moallem: [00:24:21] It was the first day of idesyera (sp).
Interviewer: [00:24:28] Shavuot.
Gladys Moallem: [00:24:28] Shavuot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the first day of the farhud, but we didn't know the next day was the Farhud. I don't know.
Interviewer: [00:24:36] So maybe just say, why did the farhud happen? Just a quick reason why the Mufti of Jerusalem incited people against the Jews.
Gladys Moallem: [00:24:51] Well, that was. It seems a certain time where there was no government.
Interviewer: [00:24:57] Yes.
Gladys Moallem: [00:24:57] And those extreme who are with the Germans or something.
Interviewer: [00:25:03] With the Nazis.
Gladys Moallem: [00:25:04] The Nazis. Seize the opportunity to attack the Jews. And there was nobody there was no government to stop them. So it was two days that they did whatever they wanted.
Interviewer: [00:25:19] But the reason why there was no government is because the pro-Nazi government ran away from the English. The Rashid Ali ran away.
Gladys Moallem: [00:25:31] I think. I think they went to Germany.
Interviewer: [00:25:34] Yeah, they went back to Germany with the Mufti of Jerusalem. Yeah. Okay.
Gladys Moallem: [00:25:39] So there were two days without government. The people could do whatever they wanted.
Interviewer: [00:25:45] Okay, so tell us what happened.
Gladys Moallem: [00:25:46] The next day, the mob attacked Jewish houses. They killed. They. They robbed. They. They emptied the houses and they killed the people. But luckily, we didn't know anything about it. Our family, our our street was all Jewish except two Christian families, one just opposite our house. And we were very good friends with them. They were good friends with everybody. Otherwise they wouldn't live with the Jews. And at the end of the towards the end of the street there was another one. And they were also friends with everyone. That toward the end of the street, the man had a very big position in the police station and the police station was just one street behind us. When he saw I mean, he knew what was happening. He ordered policemen for every house, every house. A policeman was sitting on my at the door of my house. Every house. So nobody dared entered that our street. And this is how he saved all of us.
Interviewer: [00:27:19] What street was it?
Gladys Moallem: [00:27:22] The second.
Interviewer: [00:27:23] No, the street. You were in the bedouin. Do you remember the name of the street?
Gladys Moallem: [00:27:28] Oh, it was called agdonachl because it has.
Interviewer: [00:27:33] Palm trees.
Gladys Moallem: [00:27:34] It has a trees. No, it has trees at the beginning of the street. So it was called in the name of the. Of the trees. The street of the street of the trees.
Interviewer: [00:27:48] Of the palm trees.
Gladys Moallem: [00:27:50] The palm trees. I don't know if they were a palm tree. They were only palm. Yeah. And at the beginning, instead of having a house instead of the house, there were trees. And this is why they called this the street on the name of the trees. And just after it, it was the street of the police station. So everybody knows the street of the police station. And this is how he saved us. And we at that time, we didn't know what's happening. We never knew. Only after everything finished. Then we heard what was going on. Like we were not touched.
Gladys Moallem: [00:28:39] Thank God.
Gladys Moallem: [00:28:39] Yeah. Thanks to him.
Interviewer: [00:28:41] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:28:42] Or maybe they didn't come to that area. I don't
Interviewer: [00:28:47] No. If there were police people they're afraid of the police?
Gladys Moallem: [00:28:50] Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:28:54] Okay, Now tell me, what persecution did you experience in Iraq?
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:00] Myself?
Interviewer: [00:29:01] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:01] None.
Interviewer: [00:29:02] Your family?
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:02] None.
Interviewer: [00:29:03] You didn't have persecution?
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:05] Nothing.
Interviewer: [00:29:06] So why did you leave?
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:09] We left when everybody left.
Interviewer: [00:29:11] And why was that?
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:13] That was 1951.
Interviewer: [00:29:15] Yes, but why did you leave in 51 when everybody left?
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:19] Because we had to leave. If vverybody is leaving we cannot stay alone. Yeah, but personally, our family didn't experience anything.
Interviewer: [00:29:30] But the reason why everybody left was because.
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:33] We knew what was happening to the others.
Interviewer: [00:29:36] So say what was happening to the others?
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:38] Okay. To the others. The government, first of all, they fired everybody who worked in the government.
Interviewer: [00:29:48] Yeah,
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:49] My father didn't work in the government, but we knew what is happening around.
Interviewer: [00:29:55] Okay. What else?
Gladys Moallem: [00:29:56] What else? They were accusing people by random. They come to the house and take the man of the house, accusing them either communists or Zionist. And the family never see that person again. They take them, they kill them. They. They. What they do to them, we don't know. You know, the the father of of Amy Hadid, they told them we are bringing back your father. They brought them in a bag. Dead in a bag. That's why she can never. She can never speak about that time.
Interviewer: [00:30:48] Tell me more. What was happening to the other people? Anybody you knew? Your uncle was in prison for how long?
Gladys Moallem: [00:30:56] My.My uncle was supposed to be 15 years in prison. They tortured him. They took off his teeth. They tortured him very, very much. And then, I don't know, miraculously, after several years, they freed. He got free because the family tried to get him free through all the people from the government that they could. No. With money, with anything, just to make him free. He was very, very smart. Very smart. They call him genius.
Interviewer: [00:31:38] And that's the that's the brother of your mother?
Gladys Moallem: [00:31:43] Yes. The youngest one. The youngest one.
Interviewer: [00:31:47] What year was he freed? Do you remember? And what year was he taken?
Gladys Moallem: [00:31:53] When they took him to prison?
Interviewer: [00:31:55] In 47? 48? When Israel was created?
Gladys Moallem: [00:32:01] I think before they took him before.
Interviewer: [00:32:05] And when was he released?
Gladys Moallem: [00:32:08] They took him and they put him in prison. And
Interviewer: [00:32:11] For how many years?
Gladys Moallem: [00:32:15] He was supposed to be there? 15, But he did less. And finally, my grandmother and my aunt, they could leave. It was very hard for them because there were no they had nowhere to stay. They had no income because they were living with us.
Interviewer: [00:32:38] Okay. And then when you left, you you lost your house.
Gladys Moallem: [00:32:42] They went they they went to a cousin to live there. It was very hard.
Interviewer: [00:32:48] Until when? How many years.
Gladys Moallem: [00:32:51] That they stayed there?
Interviewer: [00:32:52] Yeah. When did they leave Iraq? What did your uncle did your uncle left to Israel.
Gladys Moallem: [00:32:59] Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Interviewer: [00:33:01] Did he. Did he manage to have a life?
Gladys Moallem: [00:33:05] Yes. Yes. But he were he was physically they they tortured him. He lost a lot of his teeth. That mean they hit him. I don't know what they did to him. He never spoke about it. He could never speak about it. So he came to Israel and they lived together.
Interviewer: [00:33:31] Did he get married? Did he
Gladys Moallem: [00:33:33] No he had a girlfriend? But he couldn't get he couldn't bring himself to live a normal life. He worked. He worked. He was a tennis player. So he taught. He taught tennis, and he distributed the newspaper to the depot. He had a big car and he fill it and he put the depot.
Interviewer: [00:34:09] So your your aunt and your mother and he lived together in Israel. Do you remember what year they left Iraq?
Gladys Moallem: [00:34:19] I don't know how many years they stayed behind after us. I cannot remember.
Interviewer: [00:34:25] That's your mother's mother. Your father's mother?
Gladys Moallem: [00:34:29] My father's mother died when I was maybe grade four. Grade five.
Interviewer: [00:34:35] So she died while you were all still in Baghdad?
Gladys Moallem: [00:34:38] Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:34:38] Okay. Okay. Do you want to tell us what you remember of leaving Iraq in 51? What happened? Can you tell us how you had to leave, what you had to do to get your papers?
Gladys Moallem: [00:34:54] Yes. Yes. Okay. They we had we had two houses in in Baghdad. And. Nobody could sell and we couldn't sell the houses because everybody wanted to sell. We couldn't sell the furniture because everybody was selling furniture. So nothing was sold. The two houses stayed there. Then they said. Uh, people were not working. People had no money at all. And it was very hard time. And they only were visiting the houses and taking people to prison, accusing them of Zionism or.
Interviewer: [00:35:43] Or communism.
Gladys Moallem: [00:35:44] Or communism.
Interviewer: [00:35:45] And plus, you say people were kicked out of work.
Gladys Moallem: [00:35:50] They had no work. People were.
Interviewer: [00:35:52] And and you had to all apply to leave the country. And once you apply, you are Denationalized. Rolihlahla.
Gladys Moallem: [00:36:03] Okay. Uh, they. They announce whoever wants to leave Iraq can register. But it went very slowly. Not many people because people didn't know they live. Where would. How would they live? How would. But anyway, then it was intensified. Then everybody was registering in the synagogue. So we went to the synagogue. We were not allowed to take anything with us. Only one suitcase and 50 dinars, which equivalent to pound sterling. That's all. So we were very sad. We didn't know where we are going. What are we doing? What is going on? I remember when it was my turn, so I gave him my name and he took my identity card. He crossed it like this and throw it with that. I was no more Iraqi.
Interviewer: [00:37:15] You were denationalized.
Gladys Moallem: [00:37:18] Yeah. No, no, no nationality.
Interviewer: [00:37:21] While you're still in Iraq.
Gladys Moallem: [00:37:22] While, I am still there. Yeah. I was not Iraqi anymore, and I had no other nationality. That's all I had. Then we were not allowed to take anything. Even the jewelry, the necklace, everything. We had to leave nothing with us. But I used to like to write. I had articles. I had poetry in English. I used to write a lot so that I had to take with me. And they had to stamp it that I am allowed to take. Then El Al landed in Baghdad and we went. It was a very primitive airplane. I don't think even there were chairs in it. I think we sat on the suitcases. It was, I think, three hours. The flight.
Interviewer: [00:38:28] What year was it? Gladys 51?
Gladys Moallem: [00:38:30] 51 ya June 51.
Interviewer: [00:38:33] So you were amongst the first to leave?
Gladys Moallem: [00:38:35] Yes
Interviewer: [00:38:36] Because.
Gladys Moallem: [00:38:37] Not the first, but.
Interviewer: [00:38:39] Amongst because 120, 130,000 people left out of the 180 Iraqis. Yes. Yes, 120. You were amongst them and you had to wait your turn.
Gladys Moallem: [00:38:53] Yes.
Interviewer: [00:38:54] It took a year, more than a year for people to finally everybody to leave. Yes.
Gladys Moallem: [00:39:00] What happened after we registered and we gave away our nationality it all started and came. Whoever has no Iraqi nationality cannot sell the house, cannot take the money from the bank, cannot work, cannot have business, cannot have anything.
Interviewer: [00:39:25] Cannot take their own money.
Gladys Moallem: [00:39:27] Cannot take their own money from the bank. Nothing. In fact, our house. There was a minister Salahuddin. No. Jamal Baban. Jamal Baban was wanted to buy our house. It was a villa that we. We built a new newly built. We never lived in it. There was a new custom made. And when he saw it, he we had his secretary was Jewish, our friend. So she brought him to see our house and he loved it. But he gave a price 10% of what it costed us. My mother is practical, he told me. I remember she told my father, Sell it. At least we get some money. But we got the money wouldn't be able to take it anyway. And my father said, No, I cannot sell it. Because that villa, it was like custom made. My father used to stand every day to see what they are doing, what they are putting, what they put his heart into it. I cannot sell it 10% of what it costed me and it is left.
Interviewer: [00:40:56] Your mom was right.
Gladys Moallem: [00:40:58] I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? So. So we left. We left with nothing. We came to Israel with no, no, penny, nothing. And we started. We had to start everything again.
Interviewer: [00:41:18] Tell me about when you arrived to Israel.
Gladys Moallem: [00:41:22] We landed in Israel and somebody came inside the airplane. They were afraid that we might have animal microbe on us or something. They did DDT on our hair to kill all the germs. And we wouldn't bring germs from Iraq to Israel. Anyway Israel was very poor at that time. So they took us to shar alliyah. Everything by truck. Every travel was by truck. Shar Alliyah, we stayed there one month.
Interviewer: [00:42:11] What is Shar Aliyah? Immigration?
Gladys Moallem: [00:42:16] Shar is gate. The the gate of immigration. So we went in Shar Alliyah. They gave us a tent. Over there, and they fed us.
Interviewer: [00:42:32] Yeah. Louder.
Gladys Moallem: [00:42:34] Oh, okay. They fed us over there. We had to line up in the morning for breakfast. They gave us food ready to eat.
Interviewer: [00:42:43] What? Good food? What did they give you?
Gladys Moallem: [00:42:46] Not bad. Not bad. We survived. Then we had to line up again for lunch and we line up again for dinner. So the food was according to the construction of the family. We had a baby. My. My youngest sister was one year old, So they give special food for her and. Not bad. We ate. Then. We had to line up to tell us they have to give us a place. Where do we where do we where we're going to live. My parents got very depressed. They couldn't do anything. They couldn't say anything. They just stayed. They didn't know what's happening. My sisters were little. I was the one. Suddenly I am leading the the family. In Baghdad. In Baghdad, I was like a little girl. And here I am the leader. Suddenly I am the leader. Now where do we go? Which part of Israel? They sent everybody to far places where there is nothing and they put them. I wanted to be near Tel Aviv so that I can. We can study, We can work. We can do something. So we have to line up around 5:00 in the morning every morning to get in to talk to the guy. Luckily, you know, I have my approach. I can be a friend very fast with people. So I become a friend to the one who is giving the places. All I wanted something near Tel Aviv. So I look at the map and I saw Petah Tikva. I don't know what it is. And I said, I want Petah Tikva. It took a while. Finally they gave it to me. And after a month, they took us to that place that they were just opening. So it was two hours in the truck. Our family, we have no nothing with us anyway. Just each one one suitcase for clothes.
Interviewer: [00:45:23] After how many years, Gladys? In the in the tent you lived?
Gladys Moallem: [00:45:29] We live six months in a tent and seven years in a wooden. Wooden shack. No electricity. No bathroom inside. No water. Nothing.
Interviewer: [00:45:43] And this is before Petah tikva or after?
Gladys Moallem: [00:45:46] That was in Petah-tikva. So they took us to mabarra it's called it's a passage. What? And they. Okay, They put us out. What do we see? There was nothing. Just. Uh, just the floors. Nothing. Nothing. With sand. So where are we living? They said we have to make for you a tent.
Interviewer: [00:46:16] This is in Petah Tikva or before.
Gladys Moallem: [00:46:20] Near Petah Tikva. It's not Petah Tikva near Petah Tikva. So what do we do tonight? Tonight, you sleep with another family in the tent. So we slept another in the morning. They came and they put for us a big tent. So my father did separation and did this part for the parents, this part for the girls and this part for the kitchen. But what we had to bring from outside and facilities, bathroom and everything outside. No water inside. We live six months like that. Then they gave us.
Interviewer: [00:47:09] Did it rain on you? Did the tent come up? The tent flew up at all?
Gladys Moallem: [00:47:16] It didn't but once there was a rain, there was rain. Yeah. It rained and everything was flood. And they took my family to a school to sleep there in the city. And I wasn't home by then. My family sent me to Nahariya, to Ulpan, to study Hebrew, and they had a very luxurious life over there.
Interviewer: [00:47:46] In the ulpan.
Gladys Moallem: [00:47:47] Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:47:48] For you it was better.
Gladys Moallem: [00:47:49] For me.
Interviewer: [00:47:50] Only you or your sisters.
Gladys Moallem: [00:47:51] Only me and my sisters studied locally. Only me because my parents. Because I already finished school. They figured if I learn Hebrew, then I can come and work and finance the family. And they were right. This is what happened. And I came. I went to work in. I had very good salary and I brought the money home. So in Nahariya also the ma'abara there were flooded and as the people of the ulpan we went to help them to save them and at the same time my parents were saved by other people, in a school. Anyway, after six months in that tent, they gave us a wooden hut. Which is also no electricity and no water inside.
Interviewer: [00:48:57] You used to study with one lamp? Kerosene lamp?
Gladys Moallem: [00:49:01] The kerosene we used to study yeah. Seven years we lived like that. Some people lived less. They went to the city before, but I wanted them to give me in the city. I didn't want to go to another to another place, which is also further. My all my idea is to be in the city so that we can go to school and we can work. And I didn't sit idle. I used to go to the managers of Solnud and ask them to give us place. I said, My mother is sick. She's sick from living like this and I am worried about her and I want you to give me a place I used to go all the time. Then finally, they built a place which is called Ciccone in Petah Tikva. So it was a very good just in the entrance of the city on the on starting from the street, which is connected Petah Tikva to Tel Aviv. They made all this shikun beautiful. Now. Because I was going all the time to the to those institutions and ask them this. We were the first to get it. And. And we moved. That was after seven years that we lived in.
Interviewer: [00:50:48] Did your mom and dad work during those seven years?
Gladys Moallem: [00:50:53] My mom? No. My father, they gave him all kinds of once opening boxes. Once he was a guard. Things like that. And he was happy that he could bring some money, but, oh, something saved my mom. My father. We have. You know Horezilha is a cousin of my grandmother, my maternal grandmother. And Sammy's mother gave me his address. It was in. In New York. I don't know where. He told me write to him and he will get you a job. We will help you. So I wrote to him, I am the granddaughter of such and such, which who is his cousin and and I need help to work because there was no work. No, no. Absolutely no work. He answered me. He told me, Go to Bank Leumi and meet such and such person. Who was the treasurer of Bank Leumi. And he was the son in law of Horezilha. I went there.
Interviewer: [00:52:27] Horezilha the banker?
Gladys Moallem: [00:52:29] Yeah, the banker.
Interviewer: [00:52:30] Okay. Yeah, of course.
Gladys Moallem: [00:52:33] Is a cousin to my maternal grandmother. First cousin.
Interviewer: [00:52:38] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [00:52:38] And he is uncle of Sami Sorani.
Interviewer: [00:52:41] Yes. Yes.
Gladys Moallem: [00:52:43] The brother of his grandmother. His grandmother and my grandmother are cousins. First cousins. That guy. I was I was 18 years old at that time. Please sit down, I said. He told me. I received a letter from Horezilha to help you find to get you a job. But I have another idea for you. What is your father doing? I said nothing. Send. Bring me your father. You can find a job your father cannot. Bring him to me. I give a job to your father, not to you.
Interviewer: [00:53:31] Wow.
Gladys Moallem: [00:53:34] I'm telling you, when I went home and I told my father, he almost cried. Somebody in a strange place will care for him. So. So we went there and right away he took him to work. What what did they have there? There was money that tents sent there. The ten lira. Ten gross. No, that was before the shekel. Ten grosh. Grosh, Grosh. There was a paper, a small paper. They were taking it from everybody, and they were destroying it. They didn't want paper for ten grosh.
Interviewer: [00:54:24] Which is an equivalent maybe of $0.01?
Gladys Moallem: [00:54:27] Well, it depends on the the period of time. So there was their basement. Uh, in the, in the bank Bank Leumi. And my father was taken to that place to work. Whom did you see? Did he see there? All the family of Horezilha, including, of course, Sami's mother, because she was working.
Interviewer: [00:54:57] She was working there too?
Gladys Moallem: [00:54:58] She was there. That's why she gave me the address so that my father would work there also. All the family, there all cousins and families and brothers and sisters. And why they put the family of Horezilha. Because they are counting money. And this money, if they put strangers, can be stolen. So they were all family. Even the the one the supervisor also was family. Everybody. And I used to tell us how much they used to make jokes, how much they were fun. And they got salaries. Full salaries. And that was like a life saver for us because when my father is bringing the salary, it's all for the house. When we get salary, we we need our own expenses. We don't give everything to the house. So so it was so good for us. It was a few years until they finished counting all this money. But it was. It was very good. They had fun. They had self esteem. They are working.
Interviewer: [00:56:26] After leaving two villas in Baghdad behind.
Gladys Moallem: [00:56:30] Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:56:30] He has to live in a tent.
Gladys Moallem: [00:56:32] Yes. Yeah. This is how it is. You have. You have to live in the present, whatever there is. So again was without the job.
Interviewer: [00:56:45] Who? Your father.
Gladys Moallem: [00:56:46] My father? Yeah.
Interviewer: [00:56:49] They finished counting.
Gladys Moallem: [00:56:53] They finished, the ten cent were all taken from the people.
Interviewer: [00:56:59] So tell me. Okay. He was again without a job. Then what happened? You started to work. How did you meet Jamil?
Gladys Moallem: [00:57:07] I worked right away from the beginning. I always worked in Tel Aviv, in American Express.
Gladys Moallem: [00:57:15] And tell me, how did you meet Jamil? When did you meet Jamil? How old were you?
Gladys Moallem: [00:57:19] That was a beautiful story. I met Jamil. I. I used to work in Tel Aviv. After my work. There were courses from the Hebrew University. I leave work. I go to those courses, all the time I studied. It's without degree just to listen to the lectures. In fact, they gave me a certificate. I listened to the lectures. I have the certificate. I was. I attended the lectures. Anyway, I enjoyed it. And I learned. And I learned a lot. So what we used to, and everyone, boys and girls. What are you doing? I'm going there. They follow me. They follow me. And everyone come to me with me. And we became a group with the group in the weekend. On Saturdays we go on trips, we go cycling, we go or after. After the lesson, we still didn't go home. We used to go to the movie or something. We we had a very good time. Every time I start a group and everyone followed me. But I didn't find anyone of those in the group that they wanted to marry me or I wanted to marry them. It didn't work. First of all, we all were not settled. We were living in Marbara (sp). We were not ready. We couldn't leave our parents and get married. Second. No one of them that even though they were engineers, they were engineers or they were accountants. They were very high. Uh, educated people. A very lovely group.
Interviewer: [00:59:37] Were they Iraqi?
Gladys Moallem: [00:59:38] All Iraqis, All Iraqis, and all from my school. My school. That's why they know me. In fact, one of them was the husband of Elena. He is an engineer. They were all engineers from the Technion.
Interviewer: [00:59:55] So they studied engineering in Israel.
Gladys Moallem: [00:59:58] In Haifa. Yes. Yes, they were they were very high standards. And we had a good time. We used to. They took us once they took us to Kinneret and we slept on the floor the whole night. They took such a good care of us. One of them always didn't sleep just to, to walk around and to to guard us. And they bought food and they fed us. They treated us royally.
Interviewer: [01:00:31] Who is they?
Gladys Moallem: [01:00:32] Those boys.
Interviewer: [01:00:34] Ah the boys.
Gladys Moallem: [01:00:35] The boys? Yes. You know we are all Iraqi. Yeah, some of them were, many of them brother and sister. In fact, I was the only one who have no brother. They were all brothers and sisters and such lovely, lovely people. They took excellent care of us.
Interviewer: [01:00:52] How how big a group were you? Ten people. 20. How many?
Gladys Moallem: [01:00:57] Maybe closer to 20.
Interviewer: [01:00:59] Wow.
Gladys Moallem: [01:00:59] Or less. Maybe ten. I don't know. It's hard to.
Interviewer: [01:01:03] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [01:01:05] But they were all from the Technion and they all did the army. They did the army. So that's why they were capable of taking good care of us.
Interviewer: [01:01:17] So how many years after you got to Israel was this like ten years?
Gladys Moallem: [01:01:22] No. Less.
Interviewer: [01:01:27] Six years?
Gladys Moallem: [01:01:30] Maybe.
Interviewer: [01:01:30] Okay. So they went straight to Israel and went to the army. The boys.
Gladys Moallem: [01:01:34] They went to the army and then they went to the Technion.
Interviewer: [01:01:40] Mmhmm. But they were in the marbara (sp) like you. Some of them? Yeah, some of them. Okay.
Gladys Moallem: [01:01:46] Because some people still could live in the city. Not everybody.
Interviewer: [01:01:53] Okay.
Gladys Moallem: [01:01:54] Now you want my how I met my husband.
Interviewer: [01:01:57] Yes.
Gladys Moallem: [01:01:59] I was almost 28. And I didn't think of getting married. I just. I enjoyed the way I was living. I enjoyed it very much. Working, studying. Dating. Making money to the family. I didn't think of getting married at all.
Interviewer: [01:02:24] Avant garde. Very avant garde for your.
Gladys Moallem: [01:02:27] Yeah, I didn't. I didn't need to get married. I didn't think of it. I mean, that's what my life was. Apparently, my husband was in his late 30. And no girl was good enough for him. I had 500 lira in the bank where he was. He was a big manager there. 500 lira. Once. A cousin of my husband told me they are, there is registration of new houses somewhere. I didn't even understand where are they? You give me 500 lira and I buy for you something. I said, okay. Desperate I have no no penny saved, and what could happen if investment doesn't? So I had 500 lira at the bank where my husband.
Interviewer: [01:03:33] Works.
Gladys Moallem: [01:03:34] Not only work is responsible of it. Yeah. So I went there. And they received me. I want this. And then I said, Wait, a special person has to meet you. Okay. They went in and my husband came. What do you want? I want my 500 lira. He said. Why did you wait so many years for it? If you came before, I could have given you a very big interest. But because you didn't come, I cannot give you now that interest. Why you didn't show up at all? I didn't understand what is he talking about? You have my money. Give me my money. I didn't say a word. Just looked at him. What does he want? He went in. He brought me the money. This is with the interest. With everything. As if you came. As if you renewed it. As if. As if this. As if that. Okay. I took the money and I went. I didn't say a word. I took it and left. He saw me speaking with a friend there, I had a friend. And he told her who is she? Can you, can you give me her phone?
Interviewer: [01:05:00] Did you realize he was Iraqi? Did he know you were Iraqi or you didn't?
Gladys Moallem: [01:05:03] I think I knew who he is because I knew all the family. And he he has big similarity with his brother. And I knew his brother, his younger brother. I knew all the family. Except him. I know everyone. Who. Who is she? Give me her phone number. I went to my office and he called me. I want to say no, I cannot. I am very busy. I have no time. Half an hour, he tried to persuade me. To to see him. And I said, no, I shut I closed the telephone with no. A friend of mine we used to share, we know everything about each other and she is a friend to the one who worked with him. With whom you were talking half an hour? I told her it was such and such person. What did he want? He wanted me to see him. And what did you say? I said no. You said no to this person? Do you know who is this guy? Is the dream of everyone. How could you say no to such a person? You have to see him. I said finished. I said no. Okay. What happened? That week it happened. I went to the pool of Tel Aviv to Gordon. I was swimming there. Whom do I see there? His sister. His sister knows me. I know her. With her husband. And they started to fool around with me with the water. They splashed water on me and I splashed back water on them. Then we went. We put on our clothes. Then she told him I saw her naked before you.
Gladys Moallem: [01:07:10] We got dressed. She went home and she told her mother, you know, who did I see today? You remember Gladys? Cousins of this when she was little. And we know her and this and that. And her mother said, Oh, I would have loved to have her for Jamil. Okay. When he comes, we will tell him. But he never, never wants to meet anyone we tell him about. He never wants to meet any girl. Okay, we try. He came and they told him. He said, But I met her. She doesn't want to see me. She doesn't want. We will send to her mother. What does it mean she doesn't want. No such a thing. They said to my mother. Then through this, through that, through I don't know, oh my mother said, she told me she wants stronger that time. You date all the time. I never interfered. I never told you to to to decide on this. To decide on the other one. I never said a word. You date all the time whoever you want. This time I want you to see him, to get with him and then tell me you don't want him. Okay. I said okay. I had no choice. So through the family they made they made a date for us. I used to tease him. You couldn't get me and you had to get somebody else. You had to get your mother. And he had a car. Who who had a car at that time.
Interviewer: [01:09:03] You had a car in Baghdad? No. You said you were.
Gladys Moallem: [01:09:06] No.
Interviewer: [01:09:07] Oh, you had a small car. Okay.
Gladys Moallem: [01:09:10] Oh, the little car.
Interviewer: [01:09:11] Was a real car. Okay.
Gladys Moallem: [01:09:16] Anyway, he came with the car and me, Israeli mentality, uh you don't impress me with your car. You know, the Israeli, I was already Israeli mentality. And he took me, dinner in hotels in the most expensive places. And he's trying to impress me. What does he think? And me? By then, I was already invited to everywhere. I know. Everywhere. You take me to dinner in a hotel or a nightclub. Have you ever been there? No. Of course I was. Billion times.
Interviewer: [01:10:04] So why do you tell him no?
Gladys Moallem: [01:10:06] Because I have to play to his mentality. Iraqi. That's why everyone. Everyone wanted me because I play on their mentality. They think I am good for them, but I know I am not.
Interviewer: [01:10:30] You know you are better.
Gladys Moallem: [01:10:32] No, I know because I am playing. I am not showing them who I am. This is how I used to do so everyone wanted me. Everyone thought I am good. Anyway, with him, I did the same. Have you been? No. Third date. He offered to marry me. Third date. I was in a shock. I wasn't ready for that. All my friends, the closest, closest they know him very well. So I went to my friend. What should I do? he wanted my hand. And. And what? And. And you didn't say yes? No, I didn't say anything. You have to say yes because this is a great personality. One of my friends, her father worked with him in the same room. So he knows her very well. She told me he always wanted one like me. Like her. And you are my best friend. He was looking for you.
Interviewer: [01:11:47] Ah.
Gladys Moallem: [01:11:48] He was looking for you all these years. He didn't like anyone. He wanted one like me. And you are like me. You are my friend. This is what he wants. Anyway. And my mother, she wanted him by all means. And my friends, all of them, they all know him. They all know him. Anyway, I said yes and I didn't know what will happen. We were engaged, we got married, we had children.
Interviewer: [01:12:19] And then you came to Montreal. After how long?
Gladys Moallem: [01:12:24] 69 we came, we were married 62, seven years.
Interviewer: [01:12:30] So why did you come? Why did you leave Israel?
Gladys Moallem: [01:12:36] He had. After he was in the bank. He started business. Uh, no, in fact. Anyway he had there was a time, 1967, just before the war. Everybody lost everything in business. Uh, contractors and all. They lost. There was a big loss.
Interviewer: [01:13:08] Before 67? Before the war?
Gladys Moallem: [01:13:09] Before the war. Just before the war.
Interviewer: [01:13:11] And after?
Gladys Moallem: [01:13:13] Then we left. 69. We left.
Speaker1: [01:13:17] Mhm. Because he wasn't working?
Gladys Moallem: [01:13:19] He lost. He lost his business. He lost his business. He told me, I cannot start again here. I have to be somewhere else. But me. I loved Israel. I had no choice. So we came here. It was very, very difficult on my family, on me.
Interviewer: [01:13:46] So you came as immigrants?
Gladys Moallem: [01:13:48] Yeah.
Interviewer: [01:13:49] And the kids had to go to school?
Gladys Moallem: [01:13:52] Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: [01:13:53] And what did he do? Was he able to, to get a job right away? What did he do?
Gladys Moallem: [01:13:58] He, he found a job right away. But he doesn't want to work. We wanted to have his business. Then after I found a job, he told me, I thought, now we are having two salaries would be good. No, he told me I am quitting. I will start my own business. And he started.
Interviewer: [01:14:26] What did he do?
Gladys Moallem: [01:14:28] He imported, uh, watchbands. Then after several years, he had a problem in his business. I quit my job, and joined him and I saved the business.
Interviewer: [01:14:52] Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:14:55] He didn't believe I would do that. He would he didn't believe. I thought, what's the use? I am having a good job, I am having good salary, if he is losing his business.
Interviewer: [01:15:10] So what were you doing? What was your job?
Gladys Moallem: [01:15:13] My job? Oh, I was in big companies. I had very good jobs.
Interviewer: [01:15:19] What were you doing?
Gladys Moallem: [01:15:23] It was different companies. I changed.
Interviewer: [01:15:27] What did you do? Secretarial.
Gladys Moallem: [01:15:30] No, I did everything. I started in an Israeli office. There were three men, one Israeli, one British and one Polish. And they called it at that time, Girl Friday. I did everything. The correspondence, the accounting, everything. They did import and and I did everything for them. And this is where I learned I learned everything, because before that, I didn't work in business. So. Then I needed a bigger salary. That was a small office. So I applied and there was another office. And. And the accountant there met me. He asked me, what am I doing? I told him what I'm doing. That means I was ready for everything. I was lucky I worked there. I learned. So he told me, okay, if you can do this, you can do for us. And they got almost a double salary. I have a way, to impress the employer. I know nothing of what they want me to do, and they can get the impression that I know.
Interviewer: [01:17:01] But you learn.
Gladys Moallem: [01:17:02] Every job was like that. I take the job and I know nothing. And it's a big struggle, big struggle, and I make it. And in the meantime, I'm getting double the salary where I was before.
Interviewer: [01:17:17] Bravo. And how did you save your husband's business?
Gladys Moallem: [01:17:24] My husband used to bring bracelets, metal bracelets. And here companies of watches. By the same as the boxes the way they are, they buy it from him and they have somebody put it on the on the watch. And he has also jobbers. They buy from him. He had somebody to put it on the trays. They buy it from him and they resell it. And he has quite a few salesmen. These salesmen, they take this stuff from here until they sell. Till this. Till that. It wasn't going well. Then. Once I think he was in Israel and I sat in his office. He has a man with him Moukik (sp). And I saw things are very slow. What is going, he is going to lose the business. And the guy there told me, if you don't save him, he is losing it. Okay. What can I do? And I was working. I had very high position. I said, What's the use? Then my position were going to transfer it to Toronto. So I thought that an opportunity instead of I am not going to Toronto. Instead of finding another job, that's an opportunity. I quit. I told him I am joining you. What? And what do you do? I say give me the expensive line and I will sell it to the jewelers. That means a new department he has to create. You go to the stores from one store to the other. I cannot let you do that. I said you have to let me do that. Ypu have no choice. Okay. So he gave me a give me the high end. That is good for the jewelers. So he had samples, crocodile leather, and he gave me. I have a friend. Jewelers. It was Saint Catherine and Guy. Go to him and see what is his opinion. What is.
Interviewer: [01:20:12] The Segal (sp)?
Gladys Moallem: [01:20:15] Somebody. Somebody. A friend who has a jewelry store.
Interviewer: [01:20:20] Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [01:20:23] Go ask him his opinion. If you start to do that, what how do you do that? What will happen? He gave me a tray with crocodile. The crocodile sells each one over $100 each, each strap. I went to him and he told me rebonochelolem (sp). How are you going to do to work? This is all one side and one color, you have to have variety. You have to do this. And here you have the the name where he is importing it. This you have to have trays in the company's name. You have to have this. We haven't started yet, but he told me how it should be. I went to my husband and I told him, he said the name of it shouldn't put, you have to put your name. You have to have all the sizes, all the colors, all the. Okay. He got the message. He told me, I will do that. He became so big through me.
Interviewer: [01:21:32] Wow. Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:21:34] After a few years, they called us the first company in quality, in price and in service.
Interviewer: [01:21:45] Wow. Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:21:47] I covered all Montreal. When I started I hardly could drive.
Interviewer: [01:21:55] Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:21:56] And Toronto and the South Shore. I went to Saint Jerome.
Interviewer: [01:22:02] Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:22:04] I captured the market. I kicked all the big companies out.
Interviewer: [01:22:10] Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:22:12] You know how I could do it. Because it is our company. I know how much it costed him. So I played with the prices. I don't have I don't have commission. Nobody can compete with me. I don't have commission.
Interviewer: [01:22:30] Yes Yes. Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:22:34] I, I know how much it costed him. So if I need to drop the price, I can drop it.
Interviewer: [01:22:44] Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:22:45] Nobody would tell me why you did it.
Interviewer: [01:22:48] Mmm. Quinze minute?
Speaker1: [01:22:55] Uh yes, vingt minute.
Interviewer: [01:22:55] Vingt minute. We have 20 minutes, so we're going to rush it a little.
Gladys Moallem: [01:22:59] There was there was once listen to this story. There was there was one company, a European company, very expensive line. And every jewelry store have to have their their stand. And. We had by then. Beautiful stands. To his credit, my husband, anything I tell him, he gets me right away. I need beautiful stands. He got me. He imported from Europe from the most expensive places. But there must be a stand. There must be a lot of things. The moment I tell him, he ordered everything by plane. Mm. Everything came right.
Interviewer: [01:23:54] Do have pictures of that?
Gladys Moallem: [01:23:56] Huh?
Interviewer: [01:23:56] Do you have pictures of these stands? Of the company, of the of your husband's company?
Gladys Moallem: [01:24:02] Maybe. I don't know.
Interviewer: [01:24:04] Oh, you don't have them handy. Okay, we're gonna. We're going running out of time.
Gladys Moallem: [01:24:09] WhatI wanted to tell you, salesman of a big company came to him to his office. He told him, I want to work with him with you. Because wherever I go, they don't buy from me they buy from your wife. I I, where would I go? How would I work? I want to buy, I want to work with you. And I was in the other room and I was boiling. And I came to him. I told him, get out from our office. And my husband looked at me how could such a person I'm talking like this. Where were you when I started? After I built all my customers, I give you the list and you go and sell them. I don't need you. Get out. And my husband looked at me and my husband was dreaming of somebody to work with him instead of me because he was always worried about me. I am driving and I'm going to offices and I'm sitting with him alone. So somebody came and from such a big guy, so he was happy. He wanted to give him the list. And they came and they yelled at him in such a way. And then my husband looked at me and said, What are you doing? What's happening? I said, You give him the list and he will work with you. How can you do that? Nobody work with you? Only me.
Interviewer: [01:25:51] Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:25:53] We captured the market. Here and in Toronto.
Interviewer: [01:25:59] Wonderful.
Gladys Moallem: [01:26:00] Big big companies.
Interviewer: [01:26:01] Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:26:03] Anyway.
Interviewer: [01:26:06] Okay. When you were in Israel, did you go to synagogue? Did you?
Gladys Moallem: [01:26:12] No.
Interviewer: [01:26:13] No. But only here when you came here?
Gladys Moallem: [01:26:15] Yeah. Yeah
Interviewer: [01:26:16] So.
Gladys Moallem: [01:26:16] In Israel, in Yom Kippur. They say we go to the synagogue. What do they do? They don't go inside the synagogue. They all socialize in the street of the synagogue. And if you have babies with the stroller with everything and the street, cars don't go in the street in Israel in Yom Kippur, and they all in the streets in front of the near the synagogue, they say we are going to the synagogue, but they go to. My mother used to go.
Interviewer: [01:26:57] But you there was like clubs and stuff in Israel that you joined?
Gladys Moallem: [01:27:06] Me. No, no, not me. I didn't need a club. I did I did my own clubs. My parents? Yes. My father went to B'nai B'rith and he and there was competition in the Bible there. And he was the first.
Interviewer: [01:27:27] Oh, wow.
Gladys Moallem: [01:27:27] Yeah. They gave him a present of the Bible. Yes, My father went and then my mother joined also B'nai B'rith. A car used to take her from home. Twice or three times a week and they give them a break. This is for the senior. They give them a breakfast. They give them exercise. They. They give them courses. She studied the Bible.
Interviewer: [01:27:59] And now your mom became a fashion designer?
Gladys Moallem: [01:28:03] Yes.
Interviewer: [01:28:04] She learned that in Israel. How did she learn?
Gladys Moallem: [01:28:08] She she has five girls. And she. She had to sell for us. We have to dress up nicely. She has a good taste and we all are working and getting money and we buy material and we bring it to our mother. Come on, do for us something. And she used to sew. She learned from Bourda (sp). You know what is bourda (sp)? She learned from that? How how did she learn from Bourda (sp)? I don't know. She learned from Bourda (sp).And she.
Interviewer: [01:28:48] It was a German magazine.
Gladys Moallem: [01:28:50] Yes, yes, Yes. She learned. She learned by herself, of course. And she did for us the most beautiful clothes. We used to walk in the street like models, each one of us. Then apparently my sister later told me that she has a friend, she was getting married. So she told her, your mom is sewing for you such beautiful dresses. Can, can she do the dresses for the bride? Like jazz? And she did.
Interviewer: [01:29:25] She charged for it?
Gladys Moallem: [01:29:26] She charged, yes, she did. And then somebody else. And then, I don't know how, In Ramat Gan, The Ashkenazim knew about her. And they used to come to her. And she designed for him a bit bigger here. Smaller here. But she never liked to say that she is doing that. I don't know why. Nobody knows that she was sewing for people. Nobody knows, because like my aunt explained to me, everybody admired her, that her daughters are dressed up so well, that she's doing the cooking for the whole family. She is doing everything. Nobody would believe that she is also doing is doing this. She was extremely capable. Extremely capable.
Interviewer: [01:30:28] And she learnt a new a new trade in in Israel at age, what, 40, 50?
Gladys Moallem: [01:30:35] She did.
Interviewer: [01:30:37] Bravo.
Gladys Moallem: [01:30:37] She did it.
Interviewer: [01:30:38] Okay let's talk about.
Gladys Moallem: [01:30:40] And her dresses for the wedding of my. Uh, of my daughter. She did it.
Interviewer: [01:30:51] For the wedding, her dress.
Gladys Moallem: [01:30:53] Her dress chiffon, and two layers and something very.
Interviewer: [01:30:58] You have a picture of that? Because you're going to show pictures.
Gladys Moallem: [01:31:01] Yes. Yes.
Interviewer: [01:31:02] You have a picture of your mom at the wedding?
Gladys Moallem: [01:31:05] Yes.
Interviewer: [01:31:06] Okay. So now you came here to Canada after, oh, about ten years, more than ten years in Israel. 15 years.
Gladys Moallem: [01:31:19] 18 years.
Gladys Moallem: [01:31:20] 18 years in Israel.
Gladys Moallem: [01:31:22] And you came with your husband and you started all over again?
Interviewer: [01:31:28] Yes.
Interviewer: [01:31:29] The education. Sending them to school. How was the school? How would you how were you able to send them to English school? French school? What did you do?
Gladys Moallem: [01:31:39] Me?
Interviewer: [01:31:39] Yeah. The children.
Gladys Moallem: [01:31:41] The children. The children that were Algonquin School.
Interviewer: [01:31:46] Uh huh.
Gladys Moallem: [01:31:46] We. We took a furnished apartment at the beginning in Plymouth. Then. Then we rented in. We rented a big apartment.
Interviewer: [01:31:59] So you came as immi, when you came you paid for your own trip.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:03] Yes immigrants, yeah.
Interviewer: [01:32:04] Okay.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:05] And the children went to the English school. Algonquin.
Interviewer: [01:32:08] Okay, so now.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:09] My daughter learned French easily, but my son couldn't learn English. French? That's why I.
Interviewer: [01:32:17] Moved to Toronto.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:18] That's why I ended up in Toronto.
Interviewer: [01:32:20] So once you got here, you joined the, the synagogue, the Spanish and Portuguese.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:27] We joined when my son had his bar mitzvah.
Interviewer: [01:32:32] And you stayed.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:33] And we stayed.
Interviewer: [01:32:34] And you formed the Women's Learning group at age 70. 75.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:39] 75.
Interviewer: [01:32:41] At age 75. You formed.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:44] That was when my husband passed away.
Interviewer: [01:32:47] Yes.
Gladys Moallem: [01:32:49] And Rabbi Ornstein told me, bring me your friends. And we do ladies bat mitzvah. I didn't know what he meant. I thought, we will sit near a cantor and he will teach us. So I didn't pay attention. Then after a few months to two months, he told me again. Uh. Bring me your friends and we are going to do ladies bat mitzvah. I said, what do you mean by that? I bring you two three and we sit near Cantor and. No, no, no, not that. Bring me all your friends, and we will do a class. And I will teach you. I would give you lecture. Rabbi Joseph will give you lecture. Norma will give you lecture. We'll do it with lectures. And I understood. So what do you want me to do? Bring me Amy. Bring me Carmen. Bring me. Bring me that. And. And we will. We will work together. I will make you so busy you will have no time to cry for your husband. And this is what he did.
Interviewer: [01:34:10] Okay. So you joined with synagogue, the Spanish. You join the Spanish and Portuguese synagogue. You did all this work with the Spanish already in this? Yeah. Yeah.
Gladys Moallem: [01:34:26] When I started to come every Saturday, that was when my mother passed away, 2002.
Interviewer: [01:34:32] Ah. Okay, so now we are going to wrap up because we are running out of film. So um, you how, do you preserve your Sephardi heritage?
Gladys Moallem: [01:34:45] If I have Sephardi heritage?
Interviewer: [01:34:46] No. Do you preserve it? Like the traditions, the food, the.
Gladys Moallem: [01:34:52] The Iraqi.
Interviewer: [01:34:53] Yeah, the Iraqi. You preserve it. The food, the prayers, the celebrations. You still do it the old way.
Gladys Moallem: [01:35:00] Yes. Yes. And my and my daughter is doing the same.
Interviewer: [01:35:04] And what is the most important part of of your Sephardic background? To you?
Gladys Moallem: [01:35:17] Tradition.
Interviewer: [01:35:20] Bravo. And what do you describe yourself as your identity? Are you Jewish? Canadian?
Gladys Moallem: [01:35:31] I am. My background is Israeli. Iraqi. Iraqi. Israeli.
Interviewer: [01:35:39] Iraqi. Israeli.
Gladys Moallem: [01:35:39] Now I am Canadian.
Interviewer: [01:35:41] You're a Canadian.
Gladys Moallem: [01:35:42] But my background. Iraqi. Israeli.
Interviewer: [01:35:45] And do you consider yourself a refugee?
Gladys Moallem: [01:35:51] Here?
Interviewer: [01:35:53] I mean, you.
Gladys Moallem: [01:35:54] Immigrant.
Interviewer: [01:35:55] Yeah, but you were. You were a refugee.
Gladys Moallem: [01:35:58] Refugee in Israel?
Interviewer: [01:35:59] Yeah. For a long time.
Gladys Moallem: [01:36:01] Yeah. In Israel I went.
Interviewer: [01:36:03] Because you were
Gladys Moallem: [01:36:06] Heya houdi henoded
Interviewer: [01:36:08] Which means?
Gladys Moallem: [01:36:10] Which means the errant jews.
Interviewer: [01:36:11] The errant jew. You were kicked out.
Gladys Moallem: [01:36:13] Yeah. This is my third nationality here.
Interviewer: [01:36:17] Where do you consider home now?
Gladys Moallem: [01:36:19] Here. Montreal.
Interviewer: [01:36:23] Uh, what identity did you want to pass on to your children and grandchildren? What do you what identity do you want them to feel, to have?
Gladys Moallem: [01:36:34] The three of them. I want them to know that we are Israeli. And we are living here and we are originally. We are Jewish. And I was born in in Iraq. They have to know that.
Interviewer: [01:36:55] And they are Canadian.
Gladys Moallem: [01:36:57] They are Canadian.
Interviewer: [01:37:00] And what language did you speak to your children?
Gladys Moallem: [01:37:07] I started Hebrew. But we couldn't keep it up. They switched to English. When we were here after three years we went to Israel, they forgot already all the Hebrew. After three years, they knew nothing. But after three days they could speak
Interviewer: [01:37:31] Hebrew again.
Gladys Moallem: [01:37:31] Hebrew again.
Interviewer: [01:37:32] And now your daughter here has become. What is she. What's her profession?
Gladys Moallem: [01:37:40] My daughter is a doctor.
Interviewer: [01:37:42] Your daughter is a doctor. And Jeff, your son.
Gladys Moallem: [01:37:45] She is a pediatrician. And and she is also in sport. She is in sport in everything.
Interviewer: [01:37:54] And Jeff.
Gladys Moallem: [01:37:56] Jeff is an expert in computer.
Interviewer: [01:38:00] Okay And.
Gladys Moallem: [01:38:02] He is very much advanced in computer. And he has a master's degree. And and he still had, I don't know, a lot of degrees. He has.
Interviewer: [01:38:13] Have you ever gone back to Baghdad?
Gladys Moallem: [01:38:16] No.
Interviewer: [01:38:17] Do you feel like?
Gladys Moallem: [01:38:19] No.
Interviewer: [01:38:24] No.
Gladys Moallem: [01:38:24] I went to Israel.
Interviewer: [01:38:26] Yes,
Gladys Moallem: [01:38:27] All the time. Every year or every two years. All the time.
Interviewer: [01:38:32] Now, the last question is what message would you like to give to anyone who might listen to this interview? Is there a message you want to give?
Gladys Moallem: [01:38:47] I feel like. Every stage in our life, we learn something. Every country we live in add to our personality. Mm. Because now. I am not like the Iraqis my age who who didn't go to Israel. I am partly what I learned in Iraq. And partly what I learned in Israel and what I brought was culture here. I. I combined both, and now I am combining the three of them. If I didn't live in all these countries, I wouldn't be the way I am.
Interviewer: [01:39:40] Beautiful. Thank you very much.
Gladys Moallem: [01:39:44] Thank you.
Interviewer: [01:39:45] And thank you for participating in Sephardi Voices.