Proofread by: Rebecca Lash
Transcribed by: Temi
Interview date: 5/1/2017
Interviewer: Lisette Shashoua
Location: Montreal, Canada
Total time: 1:23:24
Note: some background communication between interviewer and camera operator is omitted from the transcript.
Evelyn Shahin: Born in Baghdad, Iraq 1931. Arrived to Montreal 1962.
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:16):
Thank you for participating in Sephardi Voices Evelyn. Could you please give us your full name?
Evelyn Shahin (00:00:23):
Evelyn Shahin. That's my married name. If you want my maiden name. If Evelyne Yaacob Korin [ph] [background communication]
Lisette Shashoua (00:00:36):
When were you born?
Evelyn Shahin (00:01:07):
I was born in Iraq, Baghdad, 1931.
Lisette Shashoua (00:01:13):
And, uh, okay. Can you tell us something about your family background in Baghdad?
Evelyn Shahin (00:01:19):
My family background, we're all in Baghdad. My father, my grandfather, my great, great grandfather from both side, my mother and my father and my mother and father were first cousin in these days they believe in getting married to family members because they know them and they don't need to go far, and they don't know what's after that. Yes, they had a very smooth and happy life all along the years.
Lisette Shashoua (00:02:04):
And, uh, can you tell me something about your grandparents, if you have any vivid memories or anecdotes about your grandparents?
Evelyn Shahin (00:02:11):
All I know one grandmother, the mother of my mother, that's the only one I saw and I was named after my grandmother, my father's mother and her name was Aziza. And that's my name, my Hebrew name. And all I know that my father lived a very long life. He was close to 90 years old when he passed away. And in these days 90, it's a big, big number. You know, he told us one day a person told him, you see these birds, people will fly like birds and they never believed in the airplane because they never saw airplane then. And this was a big, you know, adventure to see a small airplane in these days. That's what I remember when I was a little girl, when my father passed away, I was 18 years old and I have a very deep memory of my father because he was very, very active person till the very last days of his life.
Evelyn Shahin (00:03:35):
Yeah. And my mother lived 104. My grandmother also lived more than a hundred and she passed away in Israel. And I remember like when they took her to Israel in the 1950 or 51, and she was quite old, but she was very [inaudible] you know? And she lived there for quite a while. And my dream was to go to Israel and see her. So when I left Iraq, after they killed the King and they opened the doors to anybody to leave Iraq, we left and we went to Israel and I was lucky to see her there. You know, she was alive and she was very happy to see me. Then [LS: how many years after she left, you were able to see her?] Well, it was close to 18, 20 years. You know, there was a period of close to 20 years till we were able, after they killed the King, they opened the door to all the Jewish people and they let them in universities. And it was the golden era of the Jews of Iraq. But we know we, we foresee that it won't last. So we tried to find a way to leave Israel at that time was a little tight life in Israel. Wasn't easy in the 60. And, uh, we were lucky to leave Israel with a passport. My husband had some connection then with English, uh, people who are in the, in the embassy of, in Baghdad. And they gave us a passport, [LS: which embassy?] The British embassy. And, uh, they gave us passport to go all over Europe.
Evelyn Shahin (00:05:50):
And at that time we had one year, Jews of Iraq. They were able to leave Iraq and come back and within one year. So my late husband, he didn't want to go to Israel. Then he said, in case I wouldn't be able to make a living anywhere else. So within that year, he didn't want to go to Israel, but obviously we never went back to Iraq.
Lisette Shashoua (00:06:22):
So you left after the King was killed. So you left after 1958,
Evelyn Shahin (00:06:27):
I left 1960. We came for a visit all the way to kind of that to Montreal. And we loved the life in Montreal. We came in September, it was a beautiful weather at that time. And I had a lot of friends here. They invited us everywhere. So we had a great impression about the life in Montreal. And in the meantime, no other country where was able to accept any Jewish people from the Middle East, because the communism at that time was still very strong. England were not accepting that much New York, closed completely and Israel we were not, you know, encouraged because at that time, whoever was able to leave. Israel was leaving Israel, like my brother in law, two of them left then to come and settle in Canada and in New York. So it wasn't encouraging to go. And at that time, my husband in Iraq was doing very, very well, was very well established.
Evelyn Shahin (00:07:43):
We had two maids in the house, so we were living very comfortably, but we foresee that this life won't last. So we try to have an immigration and we succeed to have an immigration. And we paid $1,000 per person at that time. And we went back because my son was three years old. I left him with my sister and my nanny or my mother. And, uh, we came back, we went to Iraq and the lawyer sent us the immigration within one year. And after a year and a half, we came back, we left Iraq and we traveled along Europe. And then we came to Canada. [LS: Lovely. I want to backtrack again to your memories as a child. Uh]
Lisette Shashoua (00:08:41):
what do you remember of your grandparents or your parents? The life there, the, the, the school that your parents went to before yours, if you remember, if you remember how your parents met each other
Evelyn Shahin (00:08:56):
My parents were in [inaudible]. Of course they were first cousin. They were introduced to each other. And my mother was very young when she got engaged. Not even 10 years old. Yes. But she got married at the age of 12. And when she was 14, she had her first child. Yes. And she start to have children, you know, one after the other. That's what is the mechanism then? Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:26):
Okay. How many children? How many brothers and sisters?
Evelyn Shahin (00:09:29):
Well, she had five sons and four daughters, and I am the youngest of them all. And I am the only one what is left now, They had a good life. They lived all of them. They lived very long life. And, uh, I am the only one which is now settled in Montreal, Canada.
Lisette Shashoua (00:09:56):
Olay, Uh, do you remember anything about your childhood with your brothers and sisters? Do you remember the rituals? Did they go to, did you go to synagogue? [overlap]
Evelyn Shahin (00:10:11):
Of course we go to synagogue. Every, my father was very religious every day. He goes to the synagogue morning and evening every yes, every day. And in his late life, he was a little sick. And the doctor said it's not advisable for him to go every day. Walking in this heat, the heat of the summer was against his health, but he was a fighter. He was going to the synagogue every day. He doesn't believe in no, there is no for him at all until he, the last few months of his life, you know? And I remember in the high holidays, how beautiful the house is set. And people come from one house to another to greet each other and to say, uh, to school [yeshanim rabot] in Hebrew, they say it. And we dress up so nicely with our beautiful dresses and new shoes and the, the goodies that we have set on the table. It was, you know, very, very, uh, historical things for us when my brothers, my sisters, and, uh, we look forward for these things
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:32):
every holiday, people come and visit and you go and visit them
Evelyn Shahin (00:11:35):
Yes. Yeah. A few houses from one house to another. This tradition was continuous and it was beautiful.
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:45):
And can you give me your dad's name?
Evelyn Shahin (00:11:47):
Yaacob. Yaacob. Youssef. Itzhak, Korin.
Lisette Shashoua (00:11:54):
Okay. And he was born also
Evelyn Shahin (00:11:59):
in Iraq and they were merchant of tobacco, the whole family, him and his brothers. They were merchant of tobacco. And when I say merchant, they have ballots, ballots of tobacco. And every day they have to open the ballot and try to test whether it's real the quality. So my father was smoking maybe 60, 70 cigarettes a day without, uh, the, the filter, whatever we call it straight, they roll it and they smoke it. And, uh, I don't know whether they finish it or not, but he that's, that's the thing you know. And one Yom Kippur after one Yom Kippur, he collapsed completely unaware of anything. He was maybe age 60, 65 yeah. And when the doctor came to see him, he said, if this guy wants to survive, he should not smoke anymore. And it was a big revolution in the home, but after a year or two, the man stopped smoking. Yeah. And that's how he survived another 20 or 25 years. I don't know exactly the time without smoking. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:13:34):
And you don't know, he never got uh, cancer?
Evelyn Shahin (00:13:38):
No, no, no, no. It wasn't a cancer. It wasn't a cancer. It was just the smoke. He lived after that, you know? And, uh, it was the smoke of the tobacco. [LS: So you're saying [inaudible]. So that year, what happened? He smoked less that year. You're saying he stopped a year later.
Evelyn Shahin (00:13:58):
It was, it was what- it was a fight between the family and him and himself to stop smoking. And at the end he managed.
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:10):
Okay. And your mom was, where was she born? What is her maiden name?
Evelyn Shahin (00:14:14):
The same thing. She's first cousin,
Evelyn Shahin (00:14:16):
Baghdad, Iraq. She's another Korin, you know, because she's a first cousin, you know? And, uh, as I said, she got engaged. Her age was less than 10 years old, but she was named for this guy, her cousin, that's it. And, uh, when she was 12 years old, she got married. You know,
Lisette Shashoua (00:14:41):
can you tell me something about your brothers and sisters? How was, what did, how was your relationship at home? What did you do together? Your brothers and sisters.
Evelyn Shahin (00:14:50):
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. My
Evelyn Shahin (00:14:52):
oldest brother got married when I was one year old. He got married at the age of 25, something more or less. So it was, as they were telling me the first exciting thing for me, they bought me a shoes, red shoes for the wedding of my brother and my nieces, my nieces, daughters of my brother, the oldest one is not even two years younger than me. So we were always friends. We get along very well. And we, uh, we leave, they, they come to our house, they sleep in our house. We go to them, we sleep in their house and it was really a good relation. And my sisters were older than me. I mean, my, the difference between my third sister, there is six years difference between me and her and we, they were in the Alliance also to begin with and my other two sisters sometimes when they want to say secret that I don't understand. And I was like, maybe six years old, they start to say, je veux aller chez ma tante,
Evelyn Shahin (00:16:11):
And the other one would say to her, ok, la maison de ma tante, and I don't understand, but eventually I started to understand that and I wanted to follow them, but I was too much for them to take me with them. So I accept, I accept the fact that they are allowed to go and I am staying at home. That's one of the little events that I remember from my other two sisters [LS and your nieces, who were your age?] We were good friends. [LS: where are they now?] Well, my, they are in Israel. They went at the time when everybody left on the 50, their father took them and their mother was not very healthy, but they went all to Israel and it was a period of like almost 20 years that I said, till I see, I saw them again, but we are still in a very good relation and we talk every holiday. And when I go to Israel, they are the one that takes me everyday, everywhere with them. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:17:27):
Okay. Sorry. Do you have any more early memory or earliest memory of your childhood anymore? You're, it's very rich what you can remember.
New Speaker (00:17:38):
Well, listen, I was with the school Alliance, la prescolaire. I started in the Alliance and I remember like our school as I have the pictures here. The huge, very big school, but we got used to it. We love it. We run and run and run in the recess. And that's the beauty of it. It has few doors and the big door, the main door, it has the guard. We call him haggi. The haggi is a name for a big personality. You know, a nickname, Indian or something. And, uh, [LS: He was Muslim?] Oh, yes, yes. Yeah. But he was very faithful and everybody likes him. In the meantime, the girls are, they have the fear from him because he is very strong and tough with the girls and, uh, [LS: tough in what way?]
Evelyn Shahin (00:18:41):
Because he has to be tough. So they don't, they don't run away from the school. The girls, you know, and there are other doors for the entrance of the school, like you know the back door, the side door. But these doors are always locked, completely locked. Nobody can go. And uh, we love the school. It's a beautiful school and it's a very historical area. And every Friday we have the, we do the, um, the, uh, formal recitals for the flag, for the government. Yes. [LS: The government of] Iraq, of course, the government of Iraq, you know, and one girl take turn to turn the [tour de role] to take, turn, to hold the flag and look to the flag like that for a few minutes. And we were singing.
Evelyn Shahin (00:19:47):
[LS: Can you describe your home where you grew up your neighborhood, were you close with Muslims, Christians?] [overlap] we had, we had, we grew up in area where it's in the middle, not in the downtown, but in the upper town, in the bettawin [ph], they call it. And, uh, the house was a big house, surrounded with rooms all around and uh, downstairs rooms, the kitchen, the bathroom, the bathroom. And we had the bathroom was whenever we take a bath, the floor, hot, heat it's my brother was, uh, in the contracts, in the construction business. He was a big constructor. [LS: How much older was he?] The one, Oh my brother, my second brother. He she's maybe 50 year older than me, you know? Yes. And, uh, he was in the construction business. He was a big contractor and he made the the front floor of that bathroom, hot in the winter.
Evelyn Shahin (00:21:02):
Whenever we take a shower or a bath, they, they did the underneath. We put the wood and that's how it work. [LS: And you lit the wood?] Of course we lit the wood. Yes, yes. Yeah. They lit the wood and very well done. The smoke goes all the way to the roof and, uh, the floor is very hot [LS: and there's wood underneath the whole floor?] No, there is no it's concrete empty underneath. It's like they would do, they put the wood under and the, uh, smoke goes from the side outside, you know? [LS: And you had a banot (ph) or a shower?] No we had one side banot and one side shower. Yeah. [LS: And the shower was hot or the whole bath] No, no, no. Under the shower, not the ba- the banot is a banot, you know, but under the shower, it's hot. The whole thing was the concrete. You feel the concrete is hot, you know? [LS: And we thought, we just discovered that here] No, it was there.
Evelyn Shahin (00:22:12):
[LS: Okay. And your, your house, your okay. Your neighborhood where you're your neighbors, your friends. Jewish or not Jewish?] Yeah, my neighbour no, there was mixed. We had mostly Jewish, but there was Muslims and Christians and we were very good friends with them. We were always in good terms with them, but we were not in the same school, that school that it just happened that us, we were going to the Alliance Israelite and it's quite far the school. We have to take the bus, the city bus to take us to the area of the school, which is downtown Alliance Israelite is in Sharia Ghazi. And we had to go there every day. It was, it's normal to us. We do it. We go in, in the small buses that takes six, maybe seven, eight people, a, we are small, tiny girls they put them [to eight] and we pay 4 cents to go from the Bettawin to the school, to the Alliance, four [LS: it's a school bus?]
Evelyn Shahin (00:23:30):
No, it's a public bus, public bus that takes us and we pay 4 cents. And we come back again at the end of the day, also with 4 cents. You know, that was the very, very old time I'm taking. I'm talking later in the years, the government made public buses on that line. That takes us from the Bettawin to the school at Alliance in Sharia Ghazi. And it was a dime 10 cents or something for every girl. And these buses are big buses, the same big buses that we see here. Now, the same ones, [LS: like the ones in England, the red ones] like the ones, the bus, the school bus of here. Yeah. The school bus [LS: the other one was not a school bus] No. The other one, very small buses, public and private people run it, the driver and the helper and the helper open and close the doors and in every stop and he collect the money and he opened the door and closes the door. And sometimes he doesn't have a place for him. So he squeezed himself near the door to give his little seat to one of the girls or the little boys. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:24:53):
It's only little children in it or big too?
Evelyn Shahin (00:24:56):
No, no. I go with my older sister. I was like six, seven years. I go with my sister when years went by. I started to go by myself, you know? Okay.
Lisette Shashoua (00:25:10):
It sounds beautiful. And your area, do you remember it, the homes around you? Do you remember it?
Evelyn Shahin (00:25:15):
Yes. As I said, we were attached houses, one near the other, and we were neighbors with Muslims, family, or Christians, family. And we were not that far from the along the street. If we walk like five minutes, we were heading to the river to [hijra], you know, as-Shatt hat's what they call it. And yes, Tigris. And we walk all along the river and we come, the area is very nice and the streets are paved with all the eucalyptus trees along, you know, um, the little river pass by to feed the stre-, the, uh, the threes of the street, you know? Yes. [LS: So what language did you speak at home?] Arabic? Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:11):
Did you have any favorite expressions, any family expressions or superstition or something special for the family or between you? The friends.
Evelyn Shahin (00:26:24):
There is a lot of expression. You know, [LS: like what comes to your mind?] What comes to my mind? [min habak lashak] you know what it means [min habak lashak]? If somebody likes you, he tease you. That's what it means. You know, he tickle you with talking. That's what it is. So
Lisette Shashoua (00:26:48):
Anything at home special Jewish expression or expression at home that you told each other or stories that were special to you when you were growing up, that you remember,
Evelyn Shahin (00:27:03):
As I said, I grew up in a big family. I am not- I'm the youngest of them all. And, uh, they went through so much because they were like one of, two of them. They don't talk, they and they were tailors. And one of them was a tailor of woman's coat, beautiful coats, which is very, very expensive. And he used to work for the prime minister's wife and all the big personality. When we were in the area, we moved to the saadoun [ph] [inaudible], which is quite famous, the white house over there at the era of Rashid Ali. At that time, he used to sew for them. He has three, four girls working for him. And he was a very, very big tailor and to people. Yes. And he was very much in demand. If a woman wants to have a coat done by him, she should bring the material to at least two months in advance for him to make it for her.
Evelyn Shahin (00:28:11):
So it will be ready for her in the winter. [LS: And you said he didn't talk?] No, he, they don't talk. They, they were two brothers who are deaf and mute, but were, they were not one after the other, there was one in between them who was very fluent and everything. And up until today, nobody knows why that happened. And one of them was a very brave person when he was 16 years old, he went in the morning and he never came til midnight. And we didn't know why he came back with a picture. He went to ride an airplane. He saw an airplane in the picture and he wanted to try it. And he was not even 18 years old. And he went and took a, put himself in the airplane and ride ita nd he brought the picture with him. [LS: He, he actually] he sat down in the airplane and they took a picture for him. That was his dream. Yes. Yeah. And now his children are in Israel. Very, very, his, his daughter is a teacher of, uh, children, children with difficulty. And she is very, very brilliant. She's um, uh, she has, she's running a school there and she's a very, very smart girl she's in, uh, uh, I don't remember exactly the name of the area, but somewhere near Tel Ha Shomer hospital.
Lisette Shashoua (00:29:42):
Now uh, doctor [inaudible] [ES: he's my uncle] He's your uncle. [ES: yes, my mother's brother] Is, is that why he also was with a deaf?
Evelyn Shahin (00:29:50):
No, that was his hobby to be in. That was, that was the area he chose to be. And he was a very successful doctor in Iraq. And when he went to Israel, he opened a hospital for deaf and mute. After 15 years, he, they were trying to honor him. And it was a big event for him. And two days, not even two days, exactly. One morning he collapsed and the guy has nothing, nothing wrong with him. No aiment, not no prehistoric, thing. You know, he was not even 70 years old. Olga's husband. Yeah. And on his [inaudible], a guy of 15, 16 years old stood up and said, because of him, I am talking now, because up til today, you know, they say a baby, when he's born, he is not mute, he's deaf, but the articulation, if it's not used, it's going away. So as he here, he started to talk. And lately I was, I heard a baby of one day old. They can tell whether he's going to be able to hear or not. If he has problem in his system from day one, they can track that that's today. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:31:31):
Is that in the hospital of Ezrah [Cohen]
Evelyn Shahin (00:31:35):
Ezra Cohen in Israel, they have now Miha [ph], which is quite established and his daughter Vera Ranit [ph]. Every one that goes to Israel from the family or friends goes to see her, the place. It's a beautiful place. We are in Tel Aviv. Yes.
Lisette Shashoua (00:32:02):
Tell me more about, uh, your uncle Ezra
Evelyn Shahin (00:32:07):
My uncle Ezra was a very big surgeon, ear, nose, throat in Iraq. He used to do the, uh, you know, uh, all these operations every day. And that's why my son, when he wants to, when he went to Israel, he did the elective of ear nose, throat, and he likes it. And he became like, the specialist specialized in this area. Yeah. And he likes Israel. My uncle loved Israel
Evelyn Shahin (00:32:40):
at that time. And people loved him so much because he was taking care of all levels of people. And, uh, when they called him in the first few years that he was there, people do not have cars. He was like, you know, because he's a advanced and can afford it. He had a car then, and one day my brother called him, can you stop? [coughs] I'm not used to talk so much- the names of my whole family. [LS: Yeah. Start from the top] [overlap] Yousef, Naim, Ezra, Sion, Shalom, Shafiqa, Rena, Habiba, and Evelyn.
Lisette Shashoua (00:33:43):
Lovely. How many aunts and uncles did you have on each side of your parents?
Evelyn Shahin (00:33:47):
My mother had six sisters and five brother. My father had two sisters and five brothers.
Lisette Shashoua (00:34:03):
Beautiful.
Evelyn Shahin (00:34:08):
My father had a brother when he was pretty young. Maybe when he was 20 years old, he was drafted in the army in the first world war. And they tried to hide him so much from the army. then, that's what my father used to tell us. And they tried and they tried to hide him. And they even built a little, uh, escape in the house. And they were able to hide him all along the years. But at the end he was walking in the street and by mistake, he was shot. [gasp] Yes. They work. My father used to tell us they work so hard to hide him away from the going to the army, because then when he goes to the army, they don't know for sure whether he's going to come back or not.
Lisette Shashoua (00:35:24):
First of all, the war it was against the, uh, with the Ottomans against the Ottomans? What was it? [ES: No, it was the ultimate country. Yes, yes. Yeah] So it was against the Europe. [ES: Yes. Yeah] And everybody who went in didn't go back anyway
Evelyn Shahin (00:35:38):
he's he's he's Iraqi, whatever the regime was, he had to be drafted. So they hide him. They didn't want him to go. And that was the end of his life. Yeah. [LS: ]How many years later? Well, he was maybe two, three years. [LS: He was shot by mistake they were shooting somebody else] Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. He was shot by mistake. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:36:12):
Okay. Remind me of the food. Tell us about the food your parents, grandparents prepared. Now, what- is the same food you do now.
Evelyn Shahin (00:36:20):
Well, we have the same tradition, the tibbit [ph]. They used to put it on the little lamp, the little lamp, like the aladdin lamp you know, and they keep it from Friday to Saturday and they keep the eggs on top. So it will be [ready] after 24 hours. And in the high, in the high, Holy days, of course we eat the hametz, you know, the, uh, we eat the matzah, which is done at home in a special place my mother used to go to some of her connection, people, friends, or something. And she takes the bag, the kilos and kilos flour and they mix it and they open it and they make Djadaq [ph], you know, [LS: matzah, the old way of matzah]. Yes. Yeah. The thin, thin, thin, very thin one. And they make few thick for the berachot you know? And we eat the silan and the silan
Evelyn Shahin (00:37:21):
It has to be done at home. Yes. The dates, [overlap] the date syrup. It's a big thing. One day a guy come to the house with his machines. And my father has to go the day before to the big market and buy the bushels, maybe 10 bushels of dates. And they bring them to the house, to the following day the guy come with his big, big, giant pot and the fire. And they make the silan [LS: I remember] all day. Yes. And then when it's a liquid, they take it to the, all the satt [ph] all the, you know, and let it dry for two, three days with the hot sun.
Lisette Shashoua (00:38:12):
How about, uh, uh, how about ants and, and, uh, bee-
Evelyn Shahin (00:38:16):
well, they cover it with burlap, not burlap, this tulle, the thin muslin. It has to be covered completely and closed off from the side away from the little ants. It's a big job, but we do it. We do it every year [LS: and they put it in the,] take it all way to the roof. To the [satth]. Oh yes, yes. Yeah. The second and the third. Yeah. [LS: And they have to get two people to have to carry it] No, well, they carry it with like big things. I don't know what they call it, you know? [LS: what do they call it in Arabic?] the I don't know, big [Arabic word]. Yes. The big [Arabic word] Yes. And they take it all the way upstairs and there, they put it in big trays in the sanni [ph]. Yes. [LS: So they didn't put it in the oven. They didn't heat it to dry]
Evelyn Shahin (00:39:09):
They boil it. Of course first they boil it and boil it and boil it for hours. And then they take it. Yeah. Yeah. [What else did you do at home?] They do the [Arabic word], the menna [ph] you know? [LS: manna from heaven, we talked about it, tell us about it] Yes. Oh yes. Yeah. The big they buy the big, big, like stones, you see them green, Black stones and they put it in big pots. Again, it's a big job of a whole day. The guy come with his wood and, uh, in the middle of the house, he has to do it. And he make the fire and the big pots, the whole day turn around and around until he makes the thin, thin liquid. And then he'd drain it, you know, once or twice. And then we let it dry again. [LS: You add sugar to it?] We add a very little amount, not even half per cent, you know? [LS: So it is sweet, (overlap) it is sweet on its own]
Evelyn Shahin (00:40:18):
Of course, it's, it's very sweet on its own. [LS: And how, how do they gather the stone? Where do they get it from?] This comes from the menna [ph]. The menna that comes from the North of Iraq comes from Palestine, comes from the, these area [LS: on the trees, right?] Uh, no, not on the trees. They come together from the mountains, from all these area, you know, they still have them nowadays, but the business is not anymore. Like before now, now it's all artificial, you know, chemicals. Yeah. Uh, okay. [LS: So you did the manna, you did the tomat?]o and the tomato, of course. [overlap] Okay. The tomato the [inaudible] tomata, the whole thing. [LS: How did you do it?] Oh, they buy the bushels. They go to the market and they buy bushels and bushels. And the women came and they squeeze them and drain them. Oh yes. And then you put them in a big sanni [ph] and they take them to the roof to dry.
Evelyn Shahin (00:41:26):
Sure. With, they put salt so it can dry. So of course you have to put in it. Otherwise they won't last for six months. They have to last six, seven months the whole year. You have to eat from them, you know, put them in and cooking. Yeah. [LS: do they taste the same as the tomato paste you buy now?] Maybe [LS: because the tomato paste you buy now doesn't have salt] Well now maybe they do have a little salt. I mean, maybe they have chemicals. It's not straight, ask the professional Italian how they make it. They put some, a little salt in it. They have to. Yeah. [LS: Um, tell me about the clothes. Do you remember what people wore at parties, at] Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. [LS: Religious ceremony] Yes. The men used to wear, my late father used to wear the zboun [ph] the rope all the time with the big , they still wear it.
Evelyn Shahin (00:42:26):
Now the, in the Indian country, in all this, the Iraqi Jewish. [LS: do you have pictures of that?] Well, unluck- luckily we never kept the picture. You are talking about the picture. We had to burn a lot of the pictures. We hardly brought any pictures with us. [LS: Why did you burn them?] Because we were afraid every now and then they come to raid the houses and maybe they suspect this is from Israel. And this is from, uh, this, uh, this. So we burned. We keep burning and burning pictures, you know? And, uh, that's the history of the Jews in the Middle East. You know, we were lucky if we had a little picture from there. Yeah. [LS: But your father used to wear the zboun, your mother?] No, my mother in the olden days used to wear the uniform, the long one with the little gilet [ph] here. And no, after the, along the years, no, she was wearing regular dresses.
Evelyn Shahin (00:43:27):
[LS: how about izab (ph)?] She was wearing the izab in the olden days. And after that, they stopped wearing the izab, she started to wear the abaya. The regular silkish abaya. And at the end of her days, she wear nothing neither this, nor that she [LS: can you explain to us what a izab is?] The izab is made of a silk and either silver thread or golden thread and with design and it's beautiful, uh, two kind, two steps. They wear it and like half and then the other half, like a skirt. And they have on their head a little, uh, [inaudible] with a little front thing with all the pearls, you know? Yes. Yeah. Black velvet with white pearl. Beautiful uniform. [LS: any pictures?] No, no, I don't have, but uh, I think in that book that I have, they have a little picture of the uniform. Yes. Yeah. [overlap] Yes, yes, yes.
Evelyn Shahin (00:44:35):
Yeah. And in Israel, in a Beit Hafutsot they have it there, some of the people, they were lucky to take it with them because it was a dear, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. [LS: Okay. Can you, can you describe Shabbat in your house?] Oh, Shabbat. Shabbat is beautiful day. We look forward to sit down in the sun upstairs and eat the tbit [ph] and the brown eggs, the, and the red shwanda [ph], the red beets. It's a festivity and people come and go [LS: every Saturday?] Almost every Saturday, you know, especially in the winter, in the winter, we go in, sit in the sun. If we are lucky, we have the sun and uh, people come, people go, and it's a beautiful, it's like the, every, any, any other religious family here now you see them, the same thing, you know? Yeah. [LS: Did your brothers who did not speak?
Evelyn Shahin (00:45:39):
uh, were they married? Did they live in the house?] Yeah. Yeah. As I say it, he was a tailor and he got married, as I told you and his son was married and his daughter was, you know, they were taylor [LS: she got married to somebody who talks?]. She's a little, you know, heavy and she's a tailor too. And she's still in Israel. Very nice family. Beautiful. We have your own home. He's he even drive, he was driving. Yes. Yeah, yeah, no problem. Nope. When he went to Israel, he was able to, he was working a big, uh, uh, designer to Rose Debach. Oh yes. He was working to Rose Debach all these years and they were envying him because he doesn't talk and hear. And he's so advanced, you know, but the, the, uh, boss likes him because he was doing very well. He was very smart person. But when Israel came, everybody left and he went to Israel and he was working from home. And when I went to Israel, the first time I took some woolen material and he made me a coat for myself. Yes and I had it for years and years. And he taught me how to solve. Yeah. Yeah. [LS: That's your brother] Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Evelyn Shahin (00:47:05):
[LS: And the other brother?] The other brother was another tailor, but he was only for men. He specialized in men's wear. And the funniest thing when they went to Israel the day, the first few years and men, they don't have jobs and they were struggling. They lost so much weight. So they bring all their uniform. You made clothes for him to make it smaller for them. They can't afford to buy a new one. All they can do is make it smaller. And who is the one he charged a little less than the others. So they bring it to him to make it narrower. And you know, and he made a lot of money now in the Spanish and Portuguese, we had a whole thing under his name. Yes. Ezra [Cohen]. Yes. Yeah. Yes. [overlap] Yeah. They are cousins. So they are named after grandparents.
Lisette Shashoua (00:48:12):
Tell me any bar mitzvah celebrations?
Evelyn Shahin (00:48:15):
Well, the bar mitzvah at that time in Iraq, it wasn't as big as today's here. They take the boy to the synagogue and he put the tefillin and, uh, they do a little celebration, you know, as far as I remember, you know, as I said, my brothers are much older than me. I don't remember these days.
Lisette Shashoua (00:48:39):
How about Passover or Seder, what do you remember, what do you remember about the celebration?
Evelyn Shahin (00:48:47):
Of course, as I said, it's a big celebration and we do the whole thing every two nights. And as I said, we do the, a sukkah sukkah. We have the, make the sukkar from, uh, uh, the, the dates trees, you know, the, uh, leaves the. And we do it in the middle of the house with all the [ramanim] and all the citrus we have to work. My, my father used to work for hours and hours to, to set the sukkah in the middle of the house. Sure. [LS Your house was open courtyard?] Yes, of course. Sure. [LS: open under the sky] Oh yes. Yeah. All the houses I'm talking, if you're asking about eighty years ago, that's the trend then it was sold. And at the time of Rashid Ali, we were in, in a different home. We sold that house. We were in a European style house near the park Sadoun. Do you know, that's the area of all the ministers of the government. You know, it was beautiful area. It was a very, uh, that's where I learned how to ride my bicycle. I was 12, 14 years old and I had my own bicycle and I go around and around in the street with my bicycle. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (00:50:09):
Okay. Now you mentioned Rashid Ali. Maybe you can tell me about it a little. How old were you?
Evelyn Shahin (00:50:15):
Maybe I was 12, you know, Oh, I remember every step of Rashid Ali. Uh, we were next to a public school of the government and they took that school away and they put some army in that school. So our area was very, uh, you know, very, uh, known kind of, it's not a very hidden area to avoid, but we have no choice that our home, what can we do? So, uh, they put the army in that school and, uh, but the area is a very prestigious, there was one minister across the street and the other side was another minister. So in the meantime they were guarded. They were not a target, but the whole city was, you know, uh, you know, very big. Um, how do you call it? Yes. Yes. For a whole month. For a whole month. Of course lasted [LS: I thought it was three days] No, the war, the war lasted a month.
Evelyn Shahin (00:51:25):
[LS: there was a war. Tell me about it. This is not, no, the war, there was a war of Rashid Ali?] There is the time, but they took all the people. Like my uncle, Dr. Cohin [ph] was taken for a whole month [LS: where?] They took him in the area where there is the army camp. And he was like in near Kirkuk near somewhere, you know, he talk with us, but he never came for a whole month my uncle was away because he's a prestigious doctor. So they took him away. They took him. [overlap] He was, of course, yeah. Yes. He talk, I think he came once only or not. I remember, yeah. [LS: but he was taking care of the army?] He was in the army camps. They took him to the army- yes of course [LS: he was against Rashid Ali?] No, Rashid Ali was the prime minister of Iraq.
Evelyn Shahin (00:52:19):
at that time, he was, you know, the, one of the time of Rashid Ali, the war, you know, of the, against the British, it was something that happened against the government, the local government and the Jewish people. At that time, they were very afraid. You know, any time, any time that there is a problem in the government, the Jewish community became like, you know, very, very scared. We have to be very, uh, aware who we are, but we can't do anything. That's our life. Yeah. [LS: So what happened in the Rashid Ali era?] At the end, they get along with the British government to recomp- to get along, to finalize the war. But there was two, three days [telephone rings]
Lisette Shashoua (00:53:26):
Rashid Ali was the prime minister. Yes. And what's happened to him? he was against the, uh, British. And, and then?
Evelyn Shahin (00:53:35):
and then when they took him off the, you know, the power, the country was for two days without government. And that's when they did the pogrom, why they did the program because the country was two to three days without the government. And that's why the public came up against the Jewish people. And there was the pogrom farhud. But after that, you know, like the English, the British came and with the other minister prime minister who came and they come,
Lisette Shashoua (00:54:16):
in the meantime, they killed them
Evelyn Shahin (00:54:17):
Oh, yes, yes. Yeah. They killed. And they were really enraged the whole month against the Jewish people. You know, the Nazi, uh, propaganda was very, very strong then, you know, and the public, they don't need much to be irritated. They don't need much to be allowed, and, uh, against who, against the Jewish people, that's it, you know,
Lisette Shashoua (00:54:46):
1941. [ES: Yes. Yes. Yeah.] So what did they do? What do you remember? What, what happened around you? What did you hear
Evelyn Shahin (00:54:53):
near us? We heard we were safe in the area that we grew up. It wasn't the pogrom wasn't there. The progrom was downtown where the area of Sharia Ghazi and Sharia Rashid somewhere close by and, and these area were really, really looted. And that's where they killed and stea and it was, uh, very, very, uh, bad the raid, we, we, we were not able to know exactly what's happening at that time. Then after a few days, we were looking for people that we know if we have family there, if we have relatives, we try to know where they are. It was a big, big thing. After that, the younger generation woke up and they said, here we are. We have to learn how to defend ourselves. We can't be helpless like that. And that's when all started, well, the started to have help from the Jewish Jewish people in Palestine to send them some immunity, to send them some guns, to have everybody has to have a gun in his house to defend their selves to not, we cannot stay just like that with nothing, you know, but it was old secret because it's against the rule.
Evelyn Shahin (00:56:23):
We cannot have any guns in the house, you know? And I remember my older brother bought a gun, but he has to, uh, hide it somewhere. And he hide it under the, uh, in the, under, in the backyard backyard under one of the trees. After a few years, when we sold the house, he came to look for the gun. He never find it. They never find that guy. Yeah. That was, that was our life then up and down, up and down.
Lisette Shashoua (00:56:58):
But he never used it. He never used it, he never had to use it
Evelyn Shahin (00:57:03):
but he never needed to use it. He never needed to use it. No. And, uh, Israel was behind everything to protect us, to help us, but you know, secretly. Yeah. And that's how the young boys and girls and start to, uh, get into the secret, uh, organization. Yeah. [LS: of Zionism] Yes of Zionist.
Lisette Shashoua (00:57:34):
Anybody in your family, other than your brother who brought a gun or did he only buy a gun or he belonged? He started,
Evelyn Shahin (00:57:40):
no, my brothers were older than that age because the easier target target were the 17, 18 years old, these are the ones that you can convince to belong to some of these organization, my brothers were older, but some of my cousins, yes, they were in, in it. And we never, we, we, we don't know about them later on when they went to Israel. When you, for instance, my sister was married. The, um, the nephew of her husband was quite involved. And, uh, his parents left the country with the tasqit [ph] and his house was, uh, a big hide out for all the immunities. And nobody knew about that. Only when they came to raid his house, after somebody talk about it, they came and raid the house and they find that he has hide so much guns, so much immunity in his house. And they took him.
Evelyn Shahin (00:58:56):
They jailed him. And it was very big responsibility to my sister to take care of that guy because his parents left already to Israel. And he was the only one left. And he was about to leave after when his turn come. The tasqit, his turn was to come and he was about to leave, but somebody mentioned his home and they came to raid his house and he wasn't able to run away. So they jailed him. They put him in jail. And my sister was sending home, sending food to him every day with her. She had to hire a maid. A man maid, a Muslim to take food for him every day to the jail, to the prison. And my brother-in-law, his uncle had to pay so much money to a bribe here and there not to hang him, just to leave him in prison.
Evelyn Shahin (01:00:16):
And he was able with the money that he paid to put him, put him in jail, not to hang him. Because at that time they hang a few of them. And this guy was in jail for three, four years until the government raid, they killed the King. When they killed the King, they, the new regime abdel karim opened the door to all the jail, the prisoner. And they went and this guy was able to go out of Iraq via Persia. And he went to Israel and got married. And he has children. Yeah. Yes. He's still alive. No, he's passed away. He must to be more than a hundred now. Yeah. Yeah. [LS: So what year do you remember you think that was?] Oh, it was the year with tasqit. Yeah 51 and after that yeah. [LS: So the ammunition he had was ma- mainly to defend themselves if they had to [inaudible] like the Farhud] They start to bring a lot of ammunitions from Israel secretly and they have to hide them. Yes. Yeah.
Evelyn Shahin (01:01:37):
[LS: so these are the Zionist organizations] Yes, [overlap] of course. I knew about it very well. And somebody, they tried to convince me, I was 17 years old and they tried to convince me to join then, but I never had the, um, uh, how do I say it? The gut, the, uh, not only the courage because in my house, in my home, it wasn't there. So I, I didn't have the, uh, ability to be with them because I was protected by my family. I have my family. They have to know where I'm going, where I'm coming. That's it.
Lisette Shashoua (01:02:20):
And how did they view the state of Israel, your family? [ES: How do they?] View the state of Israel? How, what did they feel about,
Evelyn Shahin (01:02:26):
well, my three brothers went, the tasqit they went to Israel, they left everything and they went,
Lisette Shashoua (01:02:34):
no, the tasqit is when the government said, okay, Jews can leave everything behind. [LS: Yes, yes. Yeah. That's the year] they went with nothing.
Evelyn Shahin (01:02:43):
Yes, yeah they went and uh only one brother left. And my mother and my mother told me, please stay with me. You're all, all your brother are leaving. My sisters are married. You are not married. We have one brother who has a family, like the father of Lydia and, uh, Vivi. And, uh, in a year time, we will go, everybody will go. But this brother of mine, he has a lot of property. He wants to have time to settle his property, to sell them and be able to go. And that was the idea. So we start after everybody left, tasqit, we start to buy material, make dresses buy this. So, because in the coming year or two, we are going to Israel as well with a passport maybe. And we even sold the house that we are in. And the price that we sold the house after two years, it was the rent of one year as much. It was so low. So not even 1000 [LS: because the Jews were selling everything] Yes. And I remember my sister in law, her mother in Israel sent her a letter. And this letter, it has to go either via England or via New York to come to us. And she said to her, how are you? We are very happy here. See you at Lydia's wedding. She told her daughter that quotation and Lydia at that [background communication]
Evelyn Shahin (01:04:42):
And she said to her, see you at Lydia's wedding, [LS: which means?] Lydia at that time was one year old. Oh, that means don't come. Oh, that is telling her we don't want you, don't come. [LS: That the situation in Israel is awful] Yes. The very tight, the situation in Israel was very tight then. Yeah. So she was telling her first, she said, we're happy. But then she said, yeah, because that's all we can talk. They cannot say anything in the letter. Yeah. [LS: And, um, did they put them also in maabarot] Of course, everybody was in maabarot [LS: maabarot is the camp for refugees (overlap) so how long did they stay?] Yeah. Well, if they are lucky, if they stayed a year, some of them, they stayed more than a year until they were able to go and buy a little apartment if it's possible. But [inaudible] everybody left to maaborot within the coming one year or two. Yeah. Yeah. [LS: And they also put fleet on their heads when they arrived?] That's, I don't know. I don't know. I, I, nobody told me that.
Evelyn Shahin (01:06:01):
[LS: So the tasqit just for people who don't know, it's when 1950, when the government said Jews can leave, leave everything behind] Nobody kicked us out at all. Never in the history of the Iraqi Jews were kicked. No, they tell us, but our life is very bad. Either very tight. Or we were very miserable, no safety. And that's how people live. [LS: But they said, if you leave, you have to leave everything and you are denationalized] Yes. [LS: Okay. And while you're there, some of the assets, some people's assets were frozen while they're waiting for their turn to go] yes, it was done abruptly. Yes. First they didn't take them first they let them sell and do this and do that but one Friday night we woke up the second day and everything is completely frozen. Even this chair that you're sitting on is not yours anymore. [LS: While you're living in the house] while you are here, because you're, you denounced your, you put your name to leave.
Evelyn Shahin (01:07:12):
All you have to take is your suitcase and hundred dinar thats it. [LS: And, uh, you have to wait for your turn to go. and it took some people two years] Well, if some of them were registered earlier, they went early. The one who registered late, they went late. Yeah. [LS: And they had to wait. Okay. Yeah. So you left after Abdel Karim what year?] We had, we didn't leave that year. The tasqit fnish. We stayed there and life was quiet, but the Jewish people then, like, for instance, people don't, we're not able to go to university. You know, we were not able to travel, to travel for a medical reason. You have to give the kefala [ph] you know, $2,000 dinar, at least for me to go for a medical reason to Europe or anywhere and come back and give you back the money. Yes. Until they killed the King and the new regime came, they opened the door to every Jewish person to go and come and open the universities. And you know that then. [LS: So the persecution you had started in 41 right? As a Jew] Well, persecution along the years, the Jews in Iraq, even before they had on and off, on and off, we had good days and bad days, you know, the days of Yasin al Hashimi that was way before people go. And if they don't come, sometimes men do not come back. They killed them. That's just like that, but very random. But it can happen then. Yeah. Yasin al Hashimi [LS: what year was that?] Oh, way before me. I heard Yasin al Hashimi [overlap] maybe something like that. Yeah.
Evelyn Shahin (01:09:19):
[LS: So now, okay finally, you are leaving. When did you get married? And then] we got married. We had a very nice, Oh, haha you ask another question now. The week that I was about to get married, the Suez, [inaudible] al Suez 1956 we were about to have a very good, big wedding and a big hani [ph] in the house that we rented was empty without furniture. So we were about to invite 300 people and suddenly the radio and the TV start to be that a raid on Israel. And the Jews became very scared. We had to close our windows with curtain and there was a man atajawal [ph] you know, curfew from six, seven o'clock you know, so the wedding has to be done in in a small, and the house was still empty with about 20 people. And we got married because the rabbi said we don't delay a marriage and marriage has to be done.
Evelyn Shahin (01:10:28):
But after one year I had my son Jack and the, the political weather was very nice. We had the big, big party the whole night with a dancer and singer, you know, and that's our life. That's the life that happened in Iraq all the time. [LS: Okay. So now 57. So when did you leave?] We left 1962, [LS: 1962. Before Qasim was killed?] Yes. Before Qasim, when he was in his prime time. Yeah. Giving you know, permit to the Jewish people to leave. And we left, my husband has friends in the, uh, British embassy and we gave him a visa to all Europe then. Yeah. We went, we went all over Europe. [LS: And you got your immigration to Canada?] Yes. We went, we came to Montreal for a visit and we went back to Baghdad because I had my son there and we came back after a year and a half.
Evelyn Shahin (01:11:34):
[LS: and Marvin was born?] Marvin was born here after four years. [LS: Okay. So you came straight to Canada or] No. No. We came in via Europe. We stayed in Europe for a month. And then we came to Canada. [LS: Tell me about your first impressions in Canada] Well, we came in September, we came in the high holidays, Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah. It was beautiful, very nice. And we get invited every night to one of the Iraqi people here. And, uh, you know, we got a very nice impression and Canada was the only country that gave us a hope to be accepted. Neither the state nor England were accepting people from the Middle East then. And Canada was, we had a, um, a lawyer in the, uh, government, uh, Jewish, uh, prominent lawyer. His name is Leon Crystal. And he was the one that he said, I'll try, I don't promise, but I'll try.
Evelyn Shahin (01:12:43):
And he was charging $1,000 per person then at that time. So we said, okay. And after a year he sent us the immigration and we were able to come again. When we came here after two, three months, it was October, we woke up one day and we see the whole city, white, white, white, white. And my husband said to me, if I knew that I wouldn't come to this country, I said to him, thanks, God, you didn't see that. Yes, yes. Yeah. Thanks God. And [LS: so was there an adjustment to come to Canada? ]Of course there is an adjustment, [overlap] but we were lucky we had a family here and we have friends and we were adjusted easily. You know, my husband went to work after a while, but of course [overlap] it was working with his brothers for a year. And then he started to work on his own and we get adjusted little by little, you know, it wasn't easy because like with in Iraq, I had two maids. I came here. I am everything. Yes. And that's appreciation for the work that the maid was doing, but we had peace of mind here. We were able to sleep. Over there we we put our head on the pillow at night. We don't know whether we're going to wake up or not, especially when there is political problems. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:14:18):
And, um, were you, were you able to get anything that you left? Did you leave a lot behind or were you,
Evelyn Shahin (01:14:24):
we left everything. We brought, we were not very expert. I had a very nice, uh, set of, uh, uh, not, you know, um, but that they brought to me in my wedding, you know, and I wasn't able to wrap it properly. And it came here just with two pieces or three pieces, but I still have one piece for a souvenir. Yes, yes, [LS: of a set of dishes?] yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. But I brought a little carpet, two small carpet with me, you know, the Persian carpet, which is very nice. I still have them. And when we were in England, we brought with us few things because, and we came by boat because they said, if you come by boat, you can bring with you. Yeah. So
Lisette Shashoua (01:15:14):
did any Jewish organization help you here?
Evelyn Shahin (01:15:17):
No. No, we didn't need anything. No, we never, no. We were able to buy our own home after two, three years, you know? [LS: And you joined a synagogue?] Oh, yes. From day one. Yeah. Yes. The Iraqi used to go to, uh, the one on Van Horne. Yes. Yeah. And we were with them. [LS: was it the Spanish and Portuguese?] No, it was the, uh, what's the name? Uh, I forgot the name and Rabbi Hillel was there. [LS: but it's still there?] Yes. Yeah. It's still there. Aaron Katan was there, you know, [inaudible] you know, and then we joined the Spanish, because they said the Spanish, uh, membership is dwindling because the new, uh, families, the younger ones are not joining. They are scattered all over the city. So Aaron Katan said, this is an opportunity for the Iraqi to have a nice synagogue. And he was right up till today. [LS: It was his idea] Yes. Him and, uh, uh, Shahnoun [ph] maybe. Yeah. Mavis Shahoun's husband. Yeah.
Lisette Shashoua (01:16:34):
And you came here by boat from England,
Evelyn Shahin (01:16:37):
from England. We came by boat because they said you can bring with you more stuff. [overlap] And sure enough, we brought some silver. We brought some, uh, a woolen blanket where the British woolen blanket, you know, that's what they say. Do you need, you are going to a cold country, bring with you the woolen stuff. [LS: And how did you adjust to the snow?] Well, the snow was the snow, in the boat they showed us a movie once, one night they showed us a movie. And the guy had a Volkswagen car, you know, that time, the Volkswagen, he came in the morning, he can't find his car. He was looking, everything is white. He was digging here and there. He can't find his car. I told my husband, no, no, we are not going to this area. This is where you are. Yeah. [LS: But you knew] almost, but after a year, the snow was more than today here in Montreal area, in the fif
Evelyn Shahin (01:17:33):
In the 60, it was more snow than today in the winter. [LS: So tell me, do you preserve your Sephardi heritage?] Of course, we try to preserve as much as we can. You know [LS: in what, in what way?] the high holidays, the Shabbat, you know, the, without feeling it, you are a Sephardic, you know, the food, the food, everything of course. [LS: ]What about the language? Of course we try, we still talk the same language as before you know, [LS: with the children?] With the children, my younger son doesn't know much. My daughter had a little more than her brother, my older one, when we left Iraq, he used to stand up on the window and sing Arabic songs, you know? But, uh, along the years he forgot that, but he still talk Arabic. You know [LS: how would you describe yourself, your identity? What do you feel?]
Evelyn Shahin (01:18:31):
My identity is Iraqi Jews from the Middle East. [LS: You feel Iraqi Jewish?] Of course. Sure. That's the, uh, that's automatically, uh, in every immigrant that come to the country here, you can tell right away whether he is from here or here or here. Yeah. [LS: And Canadian] Well, we became Canadian things go to the country that took us. We are lucky to be here. [LS: And you consider yourself a refugee or a migrant] No, no. We were never refugee. The word refugee was not existing then. You never heard the word refugee then. They all come as immigrant. No refugee then. In the 60, I wonder, I was surprised if they were bringing people from the islands at that time. No, it wasn't at all here. No. Everybody who comes to Canada as a refugee [LS: as an immigrant you mean?], I mean, a sorry. As an immigrant, Canada is opened. Canada is open to everybody. It's a beautiful country that existing on the north and wants people. [LS: And what is the identity you want to pass on to your children?] I am grateful to be in Canada and I love the country. The snow it's tough sometimes, but I came from a very hot country. I can support the snow and the cold weather better than the warm weather, the hot. Because when it's cold, you cuddle up. When it's warm, no matter how many air condition there is, you still, you are hot and nervous.
Lisette Shashoua (01:20:22):
how do you think your life would have been? If you didn't leave Iraq?
Evelyn Shahin (01:20:27):
Well, if everybody's leaving, I would have been one of them. If everybody's still there, I would have been with them and suffered because we can still, people are nice, people, everybody all over the world, we know what to make a living. You me, her, him. But according to my idea, the politician are the one who put the virus, this in the people. And when the government is weak, they divert the attention on the Jewish community because they are the target. When the government is strong and adjusted, everybody's nice. Everybody's happy. Everybody makes a living. We were friends with the non Jews, we were good friends. We, because they are good at heart. But when it comes to problem, you are the target. You are Jewish, your target, that's it.
Lisette Shashoua (01:21:40):
And the last thing is, what message would you like to give to anyone who might listen to this interview? What is your message to people?
Evelyn Shahin (01:21:51):
Our country kicked us out. We did want to go. We wanted, we never wanted to leave the country. The country kicked us out
Lisette Shashoua (01:22:02):
by giving you a hard time.
Evelyn Shahin (01:22:04):
Yes, that's it. too bad. We are not still in our own country, but this is the fate of every one who is out of his country.
Lisette Shashoua (01:22:20):
Any messaged you want to tell your grandchildren?
Evelyn Shahin (01:22:25):
We are happy to be here. We- We have to appreciate what we have in front of us. And we have to be very thankful that we are born and grew up in an environment which was tough then to make us appreciate life of today.
Lisette Shashoua (01:22:49):
Wonderful. Thank you very, very much. Thank you for participating in Sephardi Voices. And I just have a few things for you to fill up the, the names, you know,